Post-Game Talk: Hail Morry - Jets 3, Sabres 1

[tntkid]

What is with these boards lately?

Everything is fine.

 

[surixon]

Did Perreault play? He's supposed to bring a bit of offensive pop to that line but he's been a passenger for a while now.

Yeah he hasn't played that well and really doesn't fit with them. Tanev also hasn't been that great lately either. The middle 6 as a whole could use a shakeup.

I wouldn't mind seeing this when Ehlers gets back:

Connor Scheifele Wheeler
Perrault Little Ehlers
Laine Lowry Roslovic/Tanev
Lemieux Copp Roslovic/Tanev/Appelton

Laine played well with Lowry earlier and the Perrault Little and Ehlers line tore it up last year.

On the plus side Helle has worked his numbers up to the mid point for starters. If he gets himself up to a .915 this season I will count it as a very strong year. If he stays around the .912 he's at it would still be a solid season.

 

[pucka lucka]

Yeah he hasn't played that well and really doesn't fit with them. Tanev also hasn't been that great lately either. The middle 6 as a whole could use a shakeup.

I wouldn't mind seeing this when Ehlers gets back:

Connor Scheifele Wheeler
Perrault Little Ehlers
Laine Lowry Roslovic/Tanev
Lemieux Copp Roslovic/Tanev/Appelton

Laine played well with Lowry earlier and the Perrault Little and Ehlers line tore it up last year.

On the plus side Helle has worked his numbers up to the mid point for starters. If he gets himself up to a .915 this season I will count it as a very strong year. If he stays around the .912 he's at it would still be a solid season.

I don't even do the 'I'd like to see...' because PoMo never does those things.

I think I've got it some what figured out with PoMo. He seems fooled by a type of athletic players. Lemieux, Thorburn, Morrow. They are all big, good skaters, fairly agile. SPeed is the other fetish he has. If you don't have those things, he doesn't play you unless you proved something else where.

It explains, Dano(not fast), Petan(not big), Niku(not big) not even getting a real shot. He seems unable to overcome these things for players with obvious high IQ attributes. I don't understand why he can't see it. He had Perreault playing on the 4th line with a blackhole and thought he was brilliant.

I think Perreault's numbers explain a lot. High CF% and low xG. He great at possession, but playing with guys who aren't good getting into HD areas. I think Perreault is the perfect top 6 guy to compliment elite scorers. He doesn't make many mistakes, he gets good players the puck and is probably our best forechecker.

 

[JetsFan815]

You really love expected goals.

In your view, are Minnesota and St Louis top 5 teams in the nhl?

I am not saying that that stat is the be all end all. I think it's a good tool to evaluate individual games. I don't think you need to be top-5 in that metric to be a contender, but you can't be hanging out with the likes of the LA Kings and the Oilers in February and not raise any concerns.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I am not saying that that stat is the be all end all. I think it's a good tool to evaluate individual games. I don't think you need to be top-5 in that metric to be a contender, but you can't be hanging out with the likes of the LA Kings and the Oilers in February and not raise any concerns.

Expected goals is a fine metric for measuring overall variance in a game or even a series of games. Like measuring expected values of some strategy decisions in poker or other games like it. Anything that weans people off of being short-sample-size-oriented is a good thing.

 

[antiqueslivers]

liked seeing how fired up wheels was after that game winning goal. I'm calling this the turn around game. I still have faith in the Laine. Would still like Pomo to give laine a couple games on the first line... juuuuuuust to see if schweeler can't reignite the sputtering fin.

 

[surixon]

I don't even do the 'I'd like to see...' because PoMo never does those things.

I think I've got it some what figured out with PoMo. He seems fooled by a type of athletic players. Lemieux, Thorburn, Morrow. They are all big, good skaters, fairly agile. SPeed is the other fetish he has. If you don't have those things, he doesn't play you unless you proved something else where.

It explains, Dano(not fast), Petan(not big), Niku(not big) not even getting a real shot. He seems unable to overcome these things for players with obvious high IQ attributes. I don't understand why he can't see it. He had Perreault playing on the 4th line with a blackhole and thought he was brilliant.

I think Perreault's numbers explain a lot. High CF% and low xG. He great at possession, but playing with guys who aren't good getting into HD areas. I think Perreault is the perfect top 6 guy to compliment elite scorers. He doesn't make many mistakes, he gets good players the puck and is probably our best forechecker.

He most certainly has type preference for playing style. He also feels he needs certain player types to play certain roles. I noticed this long ago, he is still trying to model this team as he did when he first started with a skilled top 6, checking line and energy fourth. He also still likes his physical crease clears on defense. This despite continually talking about the importance of puck movement and gap control. He clearly understands where the modern game is going but seems to have a hard time moving on from some of his old school preferences.

My frustrations are that he has stumbled across terrific line combinations that have worked like the Ehlers Little Perrault line when Scheifele went down last year. But for some reason we have never seen that line again especially in light of the inconsistent play of our entire top 9 this year. His only tool this year is to move around LWers in the top 9. I just don't get why he is being so rigid this year. He seemingly had no issue making drastic lineup changes a few years ago but the last two years especially this year he has been very rigid.

Our defense has struggled this year to move the puck and prevent high danger chances and yet he doubles down on a couple of players who have never been great at preventing zone entries and chances nor contribute much to the breakout.. This runs counter to all his comments in the media.

There also could be some loyalty stuff at work in that he knows that the players play isn't good enough but he is giving them a long leash to work through it before inserting a rookie.

 

[pucka lucka]

He most certainly has type preference for playing style. My frustrations are that he has stumbled across terrific line combinations that have worked like the Ehlers Little Perrault line when Scheifele went down last year. But for some reason we have never seen that line again especially in light of the inconsistent play of our entire top 9 this year. His only tool this year is to move around LWers in the top 9. I just don't get why he is being so rigid this year. He seemingly had no issue making drastic lineup changes a few years ago but the last two years especially this year he has been very rigid.

There could be a few reason, none of them good. It's probably a combination of trying to hang on to last year success, but it's kind of his MO. His handling of Laine is bizarre. It almost as if he's pretending we are the same team as last year. One of the many reasons I am confident he's not a very good coach. Some who was truly aware of the underlying numbers and what they mean would definitely be tinkering with this team to get some of that mojo back.

I also think he tends to pander to those leader vets. Look how he treated Staal etc. His top vets love him even though he's never won anything. It's much easier to stay employed if your best players love to play for you.

 

[surixon]

There could be a few reason, none of them good. It's probably a combination of trying to hang on to last year success, but it's kind of his MO. His handling of Laine is bizarre. It almost as if he's pretending we are the same team as last year. One of the many reasons I am confident he's not a very good coach. Some who was truly aware of the underlying numbers and what they mean would definitely be tinkering with this team to get some of that mojo back.

I also think he tends to pander to those leader vets. Look how he treated Staal etc. His top vets love him even though he's never won anything. It's much easier to stay employed if your best players love to play for you.

There is most certainly some of that, but getting buy in from the leaders is just smart. Most good leaders seek out the employees that are important and get them on the program as its easier to sell it to the rest of the group. Maurice realizes that if he loses the support of the leaders in the room that he losses the team. Its hard to say what goes on behind closed doors but he clearly grants greater on ice autonomy to his vet leaders. I can live with the whole conserving energy and picking their spot type thing but there is no reason for them to abuse shift length and take dumb penalties. He should have cracked down hard on those. I think its quite clear that Wheeler and Scheifele stay together because they both want to play together.

 

[snowkiddin]

Wasn’t the best reffed game I’ve ever seen, I’ll say that. Helle was a stud

 

[The Luxury Line]

ps we sat 10 rows up from this d-bag. all the dang game, he was giving the bird to the jets.

Was at the game in the same front row as that idiot. It was funny to note that he lost not one, not two but three tall boys by putting them on the ledge in front of him.

Like a lab rat getting zapped trying to get the cheese. He never learned.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I enjoyed that game. Don't know what everybody else was watching.

Helle was rock solid. Looked just like last year's Helle was in most games.

Skaters looked focused to me. Unlike a lot of recent games.

The penalties hurt. But other than the penalties, and the momentum they gave Buffalo I thought Jets were in command the whole way.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The personal attacks in this thread is beneath this place and completely not related to the game.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Helle had a .918 December and a .918 January, so the corrections were already taking place to a significant degree, but definitely, this road trip he seems to be even just a little better than that. Or luckier too, that's possible. Whatever it is, I'm happy to see it. Like soaking in the sun.

.923 so far in February (4 games)
.917 since Christmas
.918 over his last 3000 shots against (97 games)

Still who we thought he was?

 

[AlphaLackey]

I enjoyed that game. Don't know what everybody else was watching.

Helle was rock solid. Looked just like last year's Helle was in most games.

Skaters looked focused to me. Unlike a lot of recent games.

The penalties hurt. But other than the penalties, and the momentum they gave Buffalo I thought Jets were in command the whole way.

The first line in that stretch leading up to the goal, they also looked like last year's top line. Amazing O-zone shift.

 

[AlphaLackey]

.923 so far in February (4 games)
.917 since Christmas
.918 over his last 3000 shots against (97 games)

Still who we thought he was?

Yup yup yup! And while he's still down a bit lately, given that his SV% since Christmas is down from last year almost exactly as much as all league goaltending is down from last year (0.004) I'm inclined to agree with you Goaltending hasn't been a concern of mine since the new year. Plenty of other things have, mind you , but I'm that may even arguably be our best position this year.

 

[pucka lucka]

There is most certainly some of that, but getting buy in from the leaders is just smart. Most good leaders seek out the employees that are important and get them on the program as its easier to sell it to the rest of the group. Maurice realizes that if he loses the support of the leaders in the room that he losses the team. Its hard to say what goes on behind closed doors but he clearly grants greater on ice autonomy to his vet leaders. I can live with the whole conserving energy and picking their spot type thing but there is no reason for them to abuse shift length and take dumb penalties. He should have cracked down hard on those. I think its quite clear that Wheeler and Scheifele stay together because they both want to play together.

Of course, but I wasn't refering to buybin. I don't think he handles it in a healthy way. A good coach/leader has to be able to do both, get respect and do what's best. I think you understand my point.

 

[ecolad]

He most certainly has type preference for playing style. He also feels he needs certain player types to play certain roles. I noticed this long ago, he is still trying to model this team as he did when he first started with a skilled top 6, checking line and energy fourth. He also still likes his physical crease clears on defense. This despite continually talking about the importance of puck movement and gap control. He clearly understands where the modern game is going but seems to have a hard time moving on from some of his old school preferences.

My frustrations are that he has stumbled across terrific line combinations that have worked like the Ehlers Little Perrault line when Scheifele went down last year. But for some reason we have never seen that line again especially in light of the inconsistent play of our entire top 9 this year. His only tool this year is to move around LWers in the top 9. I just don't get why he is being so rigid this year. He seemingly had no issue making drastic lineup changes a few years ago but the last two years especially this year he has been very rigid.

Our defense has struggled this year to move the puck and prevent high danger chances and yet he doubles down on a couple of players who have never been great at preventing zone entries and chances nor contribute much to the breakout.. This runs counter to all his comments in the media.

There also could be some loyalty stuff at work in that he knows that the players play isn't good enough but he is giving them a long leash to work through it before inserting a rookie.

I think that you`ve absolutely nailed this Surixon. Those of us trying to understand some of the actions of this coach, and/or ultimately to pass judgment on whether he is the right coach for this team, need to really give this some thought. Dare I suggest that you repost in the "coaching thread" so that your thinking doesn`t get lost with closure of this post-game talk?

 

[DavefromStVital]

I was a couple of rows down and across the aisle in 104 from HannuJ. There were a ton of Jets fans at the game. Sorry to add to what has been said, but Laine did seem sluggish at times. Trouba seemed to enjoy "blowing up" various Sabres as they tried to leave the zone in front of us.

One interesting thing about the arena, at intervals throughout the 100 level concourse there were videoboards showing washroom and concession wait times. Not actual numbers, just green, yellow and red lines with options set out in both directions from where you were standing. There is an app as well. Assuming it is accurate (I assume from CCTV monitoring) I think this would be a great advantage in any venue. It did work for us.

Also, leave the "dancing usher" alone. This year the Toronto Argonauts tried to get the crowd going with various cheer representatives who would appear in the stands to incite the crowd. Their fake extreme smiles were disturbing. We stayed well after the game and he was still happily helping clean up the venue. Someone enjoying life and their job should be valued. An old game, but representative:

 

[HannuJ]

Was at the game in the same front row as that idiot. It was funny to note that he lost not one, not two but three tall boys by putting them on the ledge in front of him.

Like a lab rat getting zapped trying to get the cheese. He never learned.

further to your right was Trenchcoat Charlie who was attempting to impress his female friend by also banging on the class.

Birdboi Bart (your guy) was the best, though. i had a good enough laugh at his middle fingering and at the greasy handmarks literally ALL OVER THE GLASS. like he was eating popcorn non-stop and then banging his buttery paws on the glass.

hope you enjoyed the game and got to spend quality time with Electric Guitar Dancing Usherman (EGDU)

 

[HannuJ]

I enjoyed that game. Don't know what everybody else was watching.

Helle was rock solid. Looked just like last year's Helle was in most games.

Skaters looked focused to me. Unlike a lot of recent games.

The penalties hurt. But other than the penalties, and the momentum they gave Buffalo I thought Jets were in command the whole way.

penalty kill was great. Buffalo's PP was not.
Helle was very, very good. so was Hutton.
not lots of quality (non-PK) scoring chances by the Jets. very good zone pressure, though.
seeing that it was a sunday afternoon b2b game, the game was missing an intensity for the most part. 3rd period was fun. seeing the Jets roll 2 lines in the 3rd was not.

 

[ps241]

I've been purposefully coming here less, and have finally put a regular user on ignore. I have not done that ever since I joined this board in 2010.

It's ridiculous how miserable this place is when we're on pace for the greatest WPG NHL season of all time.

Yea there is a reason this post is getting so many likes.

I had two posters on ignore in the first 6 years of Jets 2.0 and they were both asked to leave HFBoards. After we drafted Laine my number went over 20 sadly. I also don’t go to the main boards much anymore. Lately I have been getting disheartened by actual Jets fans on here though. Negatively after defeat is very common for all HFBoards fan bases. Some people need to vent in public and honestly I 100% get that. I am with you though Tom I am getting ready to ignore some really smart passionate Jets fans for the first time ever on this board. I get it we are struggling at evens.......I actually don’t mind it when people point it out intelligently ONCE IN A WHILE.......but this self hate, hyper negatively, when we are in first place and heading to the playoffs is kind of ruining the ride.

NOBODY HERE KNOWS HOW THE PLAYOFFS WILL TURN OUT AND OUR CURENT 5V5 MAY NOT BE THE SAME IN THE PLAYOFFS NOR MAY IT MATTER IN SHORT 7 GAME SERIES.

Sure I would like us to play better at evens but how can posters let it ruin their season? We haven’t even bowed out in the playoffs yet? This is my last Gerry Maguire letter because sadly I will be growing my ignore list soon and I really didn’t want to do that with some of you guys.

I love Jets HFBoards and it’s been way too big a part of my life since before the Jets came back. Maybe it’s me and I am starting to lack tolerance for the relentless negatively while we are winning the wrong way?

 

[ps241]

Unless Laine was sick today and could not play more I smell Trouba incident all over again.

I don’t think so.

He doesn’t kill pentalties and we were short handed 7 times. That is six minutes short of a full period. Then subtract net 1 minute for the PP we didn’t score on when he is on the 2nd unit. It doesn’t take long to completely screw up the ice time for a guy who is not on specialty teams. I think it’s a huge stretch to assume this is a Trouba incident.

 

[ps241]

I just have no idea what to do with Laine. He is not fast enough either physically or mentally. Once Ehlers is back I think a Perreault Lowry Laine line is worth trying.

Remember Tarasenko in St alouis was rumored to be on the trade block because he and the Blues were struggling and magically now he is on fire. There are two positive things about Laine’s current paralyzing goalless streak.....first off adversity happens to all goal scorers and learning how to deal with it is painful but it will make him stronger. Secondly it’s a bonus this is happening in Dec to February and it’s not costing us a playoff spot. Get it out if the way now and battle though it. Warning: if this happens in the playoffs I will be less calm and objective about it.

 

[HannuJ]

Remember Tarasenko in St alouis was rumored to be on the trade block because he and the Blues were struggling and magically now he is on fire. There are two positive things about Laine’s current paralyzing goalless streak.....first off adversity happens to all goal scorers and learning how to deal with it is painful but it will make him stronger. Secondly it’s a bonus this is happening in Dec to February and it’s not costing us a playoff spot. Get it out if the way now and battle though it. Warning: if this happens in the playoffs I will be less calm and objective about it.

it happened last year in the playoffs. just a reminder.