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Habs vs Wings

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Which team is currently in better shape moving forward?

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I fully acknowledge and respect Montreal fans feeling very good about their team right now, but some of the statements here shitting all over the Wing's prospects/young guys are a bit much.

As a Wings fan I voted too close to call. I think Detroit has a better D pipeline and looks slightly better at goalie, but I love Montreal's offensive potential with Hutson and Demidov. That said, I think the Wings have a nice crop of genuinely hard to play against forwards coming up that are being a bit overlooked because they admittedly are not going to put up a ton of points.

We'll see .. should be a fun couple of years.
 
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NikolaTesla said:
When a player requests a trade youre always always at a disadvantage in trade negotiations.

But thats not even the point, this treade didnt mean the habs were rebuilding, they were active on the free agent market every years.

I find it hilarious that fans of other teams are attempting to tell us when my team started their rebuild. Absolute comedy.
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You have proven across your 200 posts in this thread you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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Every Habs vs Red Wings games!

Thanks to the Red Wings for free wings of La Cage aux Sports! 5 goals equal 8 wings!

1737564973762.png
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Scott Wheeler being high on the Wings is quite the take. He regularly devalues players that play a 200 foot game, which is essentially all Detroit looks for.

I'm not even gonna argue Montreal's placement. just gonna point out that any "Source" putting Detroit 14th or 15th in prospect pools is a shit source. That's even if they're not including Edvinsson.
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Unbiased sources ranking DET low are shit says totally not homer wings fan. And yes it's literally provable that Wheeler is higher on the wings than majority of public scouts, you do realize it's all on the internet and you can literally go check all public rankings yourself right?
 
HabsMD97 said:
Unbiased sources ranking DET low are shit says totally not homer wings fan. And yes it's literally provable that Wheeler is higher on the wings than majority of public scouts, you do realize it's all on the internet and you can literally go check all public rankings yourself right?
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Allow me to give you a helpful hint: Wheeler has a track record of valuing offensive production over defensive ability with both forwards and defense. This isn't just a Detroit thing, but shows up particularly when it comes to Detroit because they have a habit of drafting for all around play with guys that may be perceived as having "Limited offensive upside". As a result, and likely not due to any bias, Wheeler regularly underrated a number of Red Wings prospects. He did this with both Seider and Edvinsson. He's doing this currently with Danielson. Alternatively, he thinks very highly of ASP, because it fits his preferences.

As for your unbiased sources, yes, I'm absolutely telling you that calling Detroit the 14th or 15th best prospect pool while they have ASP/Cossa/Danielson/Kasper/MBN/Augustine/Buchelnikov and, depending on the release date, Edvinsson, is bat shit insane. There are not 13-14 better prospect pools than that. I really DGAF if you think that's Red Wing bias. Too bad. :dunno:
 
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Coach Reggie Dunlop said:
Debrincat is irrelevant, he’s not apart of our long term future. I’m not hating Hutson when I say this, but you better hope he averages 60 points every season, because that is what he will need to be better than seider. Seider is on pace for 50 points, 200 hits and 200 shots blocked this season. He will be the only player in the league with those stats. The only player in the past 5 seasons with those stats. Also I think demidov will be very good but we also haven’t seen it, Raymond is on pace for 90 points so for now he’s easily better than anything the habs have.

Bottom line is, you hope demidov becomes what Raymond is, you hope lane Hutson can score enough points to make up for how small he is and frankly will always be less versatile on defense because of it. These are things you hope happen, but we know what the red wings high end players are and are capable of. And that’s not even taking into account Simon edvinsson, who could end up being the best defenseman between both teams. But again that’s more of a best case scenario similar to habs prospects. Caufield is a better goal scorer than the red wings have by a pretty good margin though, I’ll give you that.
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Raymond has 4 points more than Nick Suzuki Lolol. Settle down.
 
Dotter said:
I never said he was having a subpar 44 games so far to start his NHL career. I'm saying I don't see him as the real deal long term..., but rather he is having an unsustainably hot start.

My opinion has triggered many on Montreal. Like kicking a bee hive because I don't have special rose colored glasses that allow me to see it.

Maybe I'll eat crow. Maybe I won't. Bookmark my post if you want
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You’ll definitely be eating crow. Your opinion is obviously worthless. Yes, he’s on 40 game heater and setting records for rookie dman all time
Because of luck. You don’t know what you are talking about, that is the only thing clear from your posts.
 
From the way I see it, both sides are just lying to themselves and generally being dishonest about their evaluations. Detroit fans boasting about Buchelnikov's season in KHL being comparable to Demidov, while Montreal fans do the opposite. The reality is that Demidov is at the very least a superstar quality prospect for them, just like Asp is for us. They're both dominating their same age peers in their leagues. Will that translate to success in NHL is anyone's guess, but personally I would lean into both succeeding and becoming high end players. As for Buch, he's a good prospect and doing good as well but there's also a reason he wasn't that high pick. There are doubts if he can do the same in the NHL and that's fair as well. Personally I see a Vyacheslav Kozlov being as his ceiling, which isn't a firstliner but still a productive player capable of top 6 play.

All in all, I'd say that the teams are somewhat equal in that both absolutely need those top prospects to pan out and become what we all want them to become. Fail that and it's looking very bleak for both. For Detroit maybe more so simply because of Montreal having more picks in the future, while Detroit compensates some of that by having those overripened prospects waiting for their chance. The area where Detroit has a clear advantage is in goal, having two of the top goalie prospects out there instead of just one. Having said that, it's still very much possible that Montreal's young goalie prospect ends up being better. All it means is that Detroit can miss on one if the other pans out.

Both teams have more than valid reasons to be hopeful for their future and as of right now, neither has clearly separated from the other when it comes to that.
 
Borlag said:
From the way I see it, both sides are just lying to themselves and generally being dishonest about their evaluations. Detroit fans boasting about Buchelnikov's season in KHL being comparable to Demidov, while Montreal fans do the opposite. The reality is that Demidov is at the very least a superstar quality prospect for them, just like Asp is for us. They're both dominating their same age peers in their leagues. Will that translate to success in NHL is anyone's guess, but personally I would lean into both succeeding and becoming high end players. As for Buch, he's a good prospect and doing good as well but there's also a reason he wasn't that high pick. There are doubts if he can do the same in the NHL and that's fair as well. Personally I see a Vyacheslav Kozlov being as his ceiling, which isn't a firstliner but still a productive player capable of top 6 play.

All in all, I'd say that the teams are somewhat equal in that both absolutely need those top prospects to pan out and become what we all want them to become. Fail that and it's looking very bleak for both. For Detroit maybe more so simply because of Montreal having more picks in the future, while Detroit compensates some of that by having those overripened prospects waiting for their chance. The area where Detroit has a clear advantage is in goal, having two of the top goalie prospects out there instead of just one. Having said that, it's still very much possible that Montreal's young goalie prospect ends up being better. All it means is that Detroit can miss on one if the other pans out.

Both teams have more than valid reasons to be hopeful for their future and as of right now, neither has clearly separated from the other when it comes to that.
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I mean we probably shouldn't really take anybody seriously who thinks Buchelnikov and Demidov are comparable simply because of their age.

But if Detroit and Montreal fans are gonna pump up their guy's individual performances in the KHL this year, they've gotta acknowledge the other, too.

My issue with some of the Montreal fans and Demidov is acting like it's a guarantee he's better than Raymond, who is presently pacing a 90 point season. That's a dumb stance for 99% of prospects in their D+1.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I mean we probably shouldn't really take anybody seriously who thinks Buchelnikov and Demidov are comparable simply because of their age.

But if Detroit and Montreal fans are gonna pump up their guy's individual performances in the KHL this year, they've gotta acknowledge the other, too.

My issue with some of the Montreal fans and Demidov is acting like it's a guarantee he's better than Raymond, who is presently pacing a 90 point season. That's a dumb stance for 99% of prospects in their D+1.
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Raymond right now is pretty much what teams hope their first overall to become on a typical year. Thinking any prospect, including the McDavids and such are guaranteed to become better than that is just delusional. There's always that chance of busting, even if it's a small one.
 
HabsMD97 said:
Unbiased sources ranking DET low are shit says totally not homer wings fan. And yes it's literally provable that Wheeler is higher on the wings than majority of public scouts, you do realize it's all on the internet and you can literally go check all public rankings yourself right?
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According to ChatGPT 4:

As of January 22, 2025, several NHL teams are recognized for having strong prospect pools, indicating a promising future for their organizations.While specific rankings can vary among analysts, the following teams are frequently highlighted for their depth of young talent:


  1. New York Islanders: The Islanders' farm system has seen significant improvement, featuring prospects like Danny Nelson, Cole Eiserman, Quinn Finley, and Isaiah George. Nelson and Eiserman were instrumental in Team USA's gold medal win at the World Juniors, with Nelson serving as an alternate captain and Eiserman contributing at a point-per-game rate. Finley leads the NCAA in scoring, and George has made his NHL debut, establishing himself as a future top-four defenseman.
  2. Los Angeles Kings: The Kings have a deep prospect pool, bolstered by recent high draft picks and strong development. Their system includes promising players across all positions, setting the franchise up for sustained success.
  3. Detroit Red Wings: Detroit's commitment to rebuilding through the draft has resulted in a rich pipeline of talent. Their prospects are making significant strides in junior and European leagues, indicating a bright future for the team.
  4. Ottawa Senators: The Senators have accumulated a wealth of young talent through savvy drafting and trades. Their prospect pool features high-end forwards and defensemen poised to make an impact in the NHL.
  5. New Jersey Devils: The Devils' system is highlighted by skilled forwards and solid defensemen, many of whom have shown promise in international tournaments and minor leagues.
  6. Minnesota Wild: Minnesota's prospect pool includes dynamic players who have excelled in collegiate and junior hockey, suggesting a strong pipeline for the future.
  7. Buffalo Sabres: The Sabres have focused on building through the draft, resulting in a collection of prospects with high potential, particularly at the forward positions.
  8. Anaheim Ducks: Anaheim's system boasts talented forwards and defensemen who have performed well in junior leagues, indicating a promising outlook for the franchise.
  9. Colorado Avalanche: The Avalanche have a balanced prospect pool with players developing in various leagues, providing depth and potential future stars for the team.
  10. Montreal Canadiens: Montreal's prospects include several high-skill players who have shown significant development, particularly in international play and junior leagues.

These rankings are based on a combination of recent draft success, player development, and performances in junior, collegiate, and international play. It's important to note that prospect evaluations are continually evolving as players develop and new talent emerges.
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Allow me to give you a helpful hint: Wheeler has a track record of valuing offensive production over defensive ability with both forwards and defense. This isn't just a Detroit thing, but shows up particularly when it comes to Detroit because they have a habit of drafting for all around play with guys that may be perceived as having "Limited offensive upside". As a result, and likely not due to any bias, Wheeler regularly underrated a number of Red Wings prospects. He did this with both Seider and Edvinsson. He's doing this currently with Danielson. Alternatively, he thinks very highly of ASP, because it fits his preferences.

As for your unbiased sources, yes, I'm absolutely telling you that calling Detroit the 14th or 15th best prospect pool while they have ASP/Cossa/Danielson/Kasper/MBN/Augustine/Buchelnikov and, depending on the release date, Edvinsson, is bat shit insane. There are not 13-14 better prospect pools than that. I really DGAF if you think that's Red Wing bias. Too bad. :dunno:
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well it's good you don't think that's biased, you can dismiss it all you want, we'll see 3-5 years from now. Defence can be learned, Detroit is currently one of the worst offensive teams in the league and their internal solution is...Danielson, Buchelnikov and MBN.
Larkin's gonna be 30 by the time DET get's back into the playoffs, not sure if Debrincat is in their future plans, he's also gonna be close to 30 by the time DET is relevant. No shit scouts value offence, you don't need defensive all-stars, just a good solid system. FLR's #1 was literally a waiver pick up :laugh:. They went from being a mid to bad defensive to the best by just switching coaches. What's DET path towards becoming a cup contender, winning every game 1-0? With the only goal coming on the PP?
 
Golden_Jet said:
Sure ok, wings offense is 9th and habs offense is 26th
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what a bold faced lie lmao.

MTL: 3.04 g/gp 13th in the league
DET 2.79 g/gp 25th in the league

5v5 goals/60
DET: 1.96 (2nd WORST in the NHL)
MTL: 2.56 (10th best)

5v5 expected goals/60
DET: 2.11 (WORST in the NHL)
MTL: 2.53 (12th best)

DET is entirely reliant on a PP running at 50% for a few weeks
 
HabsMD97 said:
what a bold faced lie lmao.

MTL: 3.04 g/gp 13th in the league
DET 2.79 g/gp 25th in the league

5v5 goals/60
DET: 1.96 (2nd WORST in the NHL)
MTL: 2.56 (10th best)

5v5 expected goals/60
DET: 2.11 (WORST in the NHL)
MTL: 2.53 (12th best)

DET is entirely reliant on a PP running at 50% for a few weeks
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Ya my bad, web page was set to 23/24 from a previous lookup.
 
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@Dotter here's some actual rankings:

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Ranking every NHL team’s 2024-25 prospect pool, from 1-32

Which teams improved? Which clubs fell? Breaking down how all 32 NHL pipelines stack up against each other.
www.dailyfaceoff.com www.dailyfaceoff.com

www.espn.com

Ranking every NHL team's prospect pipeline: Why the Sharks are No. 1

As the 2024-25 season gets rolling, here's our updated 1-32 ranking of each club's players in the system.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

thehockeywriters.com

The NHL’s Best Farm Systems Ranked - 2024-25 Midseason Update - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Just like the NHL clubs, their prospect pools are all at different stages. This piece will take a look at every NHL farm system ranking.
thehockeywriters.com thehockeywriters.com
 
Golden_Jet said:
Good grief, really ChatGPT 😆
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I’ve heard of GenAI hallucinations but not GenAI causing real people to hallucinate.

Meanwhile in the real world, Montreal is five points clear of Detroit with the Wings struggling to catch them for the wildcard in Year 6 of Yzerman at the helm.
 
Bigtrout said:
@Dotter here's some actual rankings:

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Ranking every NHL team’s 2024-25 prospect pool, from 1-32

Which teams improved? Which clubs fell? Breaking down how all 32 NHL pipelines stack up against each other.
www.dailyfaceoff.com www.dailyfaceoff.com

www.espn.com

Ranking every NHL team's prospect pipeline: Why the Sharks are No. 1

As the 2024-25 season gets rolling, here's our updated 1-32 ranking of each club's players in the system.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

thehockeywriters.com

The NHL’s Best Farm Systems Ranked - 2024-25 Midseason Update - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Just like the NHL clubs, their prospect pools are all at different stages. This piece will take a look at every NHL farm system ranking.
thehockeywriters.com thehockeywriters.com
Click to expand...

Those are all outdated. Need something since WJC.
 
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