Habs vs Wings

[RedHawkDown]

I’ll also just reiterate that Huston is f***ing incredible and I can see Hughes 2.0 in that kid. What a gem.

Here’s hoping ASP can be something similar for us.

 

[Artaud]

I never disagreed that Hutson is great. I’ve also watched every single wings game and Raymond is far better than Eberle ever was so…

I used Eberle as an example that trajectories don't mean anything. Of course, Raymond has tools Eberle never had.

The fact remains that besides Larkin (probably Detroit's best player IMO) and Raymond, there is not much of a top 6 going forward. Guys like Kasper, Danielson, MBN lack offensive upside, while Buchelnikov is a dark horse.

The Red Wings just desperatly need star power. Their only hope is to become a goalie team like the Habs with Price or Devils with Brodeur.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I used Eberle as an example that trajectories don't mean anything. Of course, Raymond has tools Eberle never had.

The fact remains that besides Larkin (probably Detroit's best player IMO) and Raymond, there is not much of a top 6 going forward. Guys like Kasper, Danielson, MBN lack offensive upside, while Buchelnikov is a dark horse.

The Red Wings just desperatly need star power. Their only hope is to become a goalie team like the Habs with Price or Devils with Brodeur.

Kasper is and will be a top 6 forward. We’ll see about the rest.

Larkin hasn’t been Detroits best player for 3 years btw.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Wings playing very well tonight.

For half the game.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Think red wings are set on the back end but not convinced about that forward core.

 

[Artaud]

Kasper is and will be a top 6 forward. We’ll see about the rest.

Larkin hasn’t been Detroits best player for 3 years btw.

The only reason Kasper is playing on a top 6 is because Detroit has nobody at C. His production falls squarely into 3rd liner territory despite second line usage. He couldn't get half ppg in the AHL at 20 and has not shown top 6 skill. I find him invisible most nights.

I think you are delusional about the upside of Detroit's young players.

 

[Andrei79]

I’ll also just reiterate that Huston is f***ing incredible and I can see Hughes 2.0 in that kid. What a gem.

Here’s hoping ASP can be something similar for us.

Thought the same of Edvinsson.

We already all know Seider is a stud, but Edvinsson making an impact so soon I didn't expect. Thought it would take him more time. And Kasper also looks like a good pick.

 

[Baksfamous112]

The only reason Kasper is playing on a top 6 is because Detroit has nobody at C. His production falls squarely into 3rd liner territory despite second line usage. He couldn't get half ppg in the AHL at 20 and has not shown top 6 skill. I find him invisible most nights.

I think you are delusional about the upside of Detroit's young players.

Kasper first NHL season looks really similar to Suzuki’s. Just saying.

 

[Go Wings]

The only reason Kasper is playing on a top 6 is because Detroit has nobody at C. His production falls squarely into 3rd liner territory despite second line usage. He couldn't get half ppg in the AHL at 20 and has not shown top 6 skill. I find him invisible most nights.

I think you are delusional about the upside of Detroit's young players.

He's 8th in rookie scoring wtf are you talking about?

 

[RedHawkDown]

The only reason Kasper is playing on a top 6 is because Detroit has nobody at C. His production falls squarely into 3rd liner territory despite second line usage. He couldn't get half ppg in the AHL at 20 and has not shown top 6 skill. I find him invisible most nights.

I think you are delusional about the upside of Detroit's young players.

Ok. There’s no point discussing with some of you in this thread. You’re free to believe that man, whatever you say.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...both teams are great young squads...why make it personal??...

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't know how many it needs to be repeated to you, the only place Raymond is trending better is on the PP. They've produced at the same rate at even strength at the same age, but Suzuki did it on a worse team with worse linemates. He absolutely is not on the same trajectory as Kucherov lol.

PP is part of hockey. Raymond being better at it IS part of why he's trending better than Suzuki did at the same age. If you want to break it down further based on situation, linemates, team etc. you are free to do so, but keep in mind Montreal was a playoff team Suzuki's first 2 years and Suzuki was 1 year older when he made his debut. If you want to insert context, insert all of it rather than cherrypicking.

I love how you say a trajectory similar to guys like Kucherov as if that was not a huge outlier. He's also on a trajectory similar to players like Jordan Eberle.

63 point pace as a 22 year old (Eberle) is not all that similar to an 80 point pace as a 22 year old (Raymond) though.
Raymond already has two 70+ point seasons two his name while Eberle has one in his entire career. I think you're reaching with the comparison.

The only reason Kasper is playing on a top 6 is because Detroit has nobody at C. His production falls squarely into 3rd liner territory despite second line usage. He couldn't get half ppg in the AHL at 20 and has not shown top 6 skill. I find him invisible most nights.

I think you are delusional about the upside of Detroit's young players.

Your description is actually what sounds delusional. It's both factually incorrect (he was top 6 even before Detroit needed him at 2C) and in terms of the subjective takes ("not shown top 6 skill", "invisible most nights") seems completely out of touch.

 

[BB88]

I said "less lopsided", not "Detroit's players are exactly equal". The point was that not every successful team has those 2 superstar guys driving the bus. Different builds are possible and it all hinges on some things going right for Detroit, something you're clearly not interested in considering as even a remote possibility.

I consider going by facts

If you want to win the Cup you need superstar players, Detroit has zero game changing forwards.

That’s not just me saying it, that’s history showing it to you

= The build is lacking at the most important part

 

[BB88]

Kasper is and will be a top 6 forward. We’ll see about the rest.

Larkin hasn’t been Detroits best player for 3 years btw.

Shouldn’t that just be a massive concern?

Larkin is the 1C, he’s going to be 29y next season and Detroit is still miles away from fighting for a Cup, when that 1C is in the middle of his prime

The timeline of that rebuild is just all over the place

 

[Pavels Dog]

I consider going by facts

If you want to win the Cup you need superstar players, Detroit has zero game changing forwards.

That’s not just me saying it, that’s history showing it to you

= The build is lacking at the most important part

Personally I worry about that after the team stops losing because teams are taking advantage of Justin Holl.

I've also never bought into the idea that Tarasenko or O'Reilly were "game changing" or "elite" when St.Louis won the cup. At least not the extent that Detroit needs to completely burn it down because there's no chance Raymond ever has a season as good as Tarasenko's 68 point mark the year they won.

The timeline of that rebuild is just all over the place

I think the timeline just isn't desperately centered around Larkin. He's a good player but he's not McDavid and imo it would have been delusional to think a sustainable cup contender could be constructed with him as the true centerpiece.

 

[BB88]

Personally I worry about that after the team stops losing because teams are taking advantage of Justin Holl.

I've also never bought into the idea that Tarasenko or O'Reilly were "game changing" or "elite" when St.Louis won the cup. At least not the extent that Detroit needs to completely burn it down because there's no chance Raymond ever has a season as good as Tarasenko's 68 point mark the year they won.


I think the timeline just isn't desperately centered around Larkin. He's a good player but he's not McDavid and imo it would have been delusional to think a sustainable cup contender could be constructed with him as the true centerpiece.

So how you are you fixing the 1C issue? What has Y shown to address that.. Without that this is all pointless, whatever you are doing doesn’t matter one bit


We’ve gone this through before. When Blues won RoR won the Selke+ Conn Smythe, he was one of the best match up C’s in the league and a legit 1C. They also had guys like Pietrangelo and Parayko on the blueline

Also if you look at back 20 years and can find 1 ”weaker” Cup winner, in your opinion is that 1 ”weaker” Cup winner the motivation you should look for building a team or those other 19 years?

 

[Pavels Dog]

So how you are you fixing the 1C issue? What has Y shown to address that.. Without that this is all pointless, whatever you are doing doesn’t matter one bit

We’ve gone this through before. When Blues won RoR won the Selke+ Conn Smythe, he was one of the best match up C’s in the league and a legit 1C. They also had guys like Pietrangelo and Parayko on the blueline

Both of these arguments comes back to my point that you're unwilling to entertain the idea that any of Detroit's players can progress.

 

[zenator]

The main difference is that the Habs have a young goalie that is somewhat NHL proven, and has a good chance to be a yearly top 15 goalie going forward. Detroit doesn't have a young goalie that has proven anything. Detroit has 2 and Montreal 1 good prospect goalie, but goalies are voodoo, and until they prove it in the NHL, being a good prospect goalie means nothing.