Habs vs Wings

[Snuggs]

Honest question; what is the generally accepted reason for that Walman trade? Was it purely a cap thing or more making room for a young guy?

"IMO", something happened behind the scenes with another player/coach... We'll never really know. Stunned most if not all Red Wing fans.

To answer the question though; Gave the Red Wings the edge because of the defense/goalies. I don't know if people think Seider is better than Hutson or not, but I do, doesn't mean Huston won't become better with a few years though then Red Wings have the two goalie prospects, and I also don't know if Montreal has another prospect with the hype-train ASP does right now.

Time will tell. Good question. Neither team is far off from the other.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I'll say Habs.

Kane is on a tear and is a big reason why they are making a push but he is 36 how much longer he gonna be able to do this?

Without Kane, Debrincat falls a bit off into a 60ish point player making almost 8 million.

Larkin is good but is almost 30, not exactly a spring chicken anymore...

Habs key guys all younger

 

[newfy]

I prefer Hutson and Demidov but I'm biased, I think the upside is higher but Seider and Raymond are already top tier and well established

Whats the best case for Demidov? You have to be pretty biased to prefer his upside over Raymonds upside/what hes already doing. The last year and a half at age 21/22 Raymond has looked like a 35 goal, 85-90 point winger with a really solid 2 way game. You have to essentially think Demidov is going to be a 100+ point player and accept the risk of it not happening to prefer 10 more points a year out of him.

I wont really touch on Seider vs Hutson but I'll take the throwback over the new school, smaller guy come playoff time. I can see why the hype train for Hutson is rolling though

 

[NikolaTesla]

Whats the best case for Demidov? You have to be pretty biased to prefer his upside over Raymonds upside/what hes already doing. The last year and a half at age 21/22 Raymond has looked like a 35 goal, 85-90 point winger with a really solid 2 way game. You have to essentially think Demidov is going to be a 100+ point player and accept the risk of it not happening to prefer 10 more points a year out of him.

I wont really touch on Seider vs Hutson but I'll take the throwback over the new school, smaller guy come playoff time. I can see why the hype train for Hutson is rolling though

Last year he wasnt anywhere close to a 90 points player. Demidov should be a 90 points player by age 22. He is dominating the khl at 19. Literally the best p/60 and by far.

 

[newfy]

Last year he wasnt anywhere close to a 90 points player. Demidov should be a 90 points player by age 22. He is dominating the khl at 19. Literally the best p/60 and by far.

Calendar year of 2024 he posted 35 goals and 82 points in 82 games. The second half of last season at 21 years old he had turned into a 35 goal point per game player essentially. Demidov is a great prospect... not a lot of them turn into 90 point players, especially without giving up a lot in the defensive end.

The odds of him being actually better than Raymond are very slim

 

[NikolaTesla]

Calendar year of 2024 he posted 35 goals and 82 points in 82 games. The second half of last season at 21 years old he had turned into a 35 goal point per game player essentially. Demidov is a great prospect... not a lot of them turn into 90 point players, especially without giving up a lot in the defensive end.

The odds of him being actually better than Raymond are very slim

Define very slim. I personally think its almost a slam dunk that Demidov will be a 90 points player. Time will tell...

 

[newfy]

Define very slim. I personally think its almost a slam dunk that Demidov will be a 90 points player. Time will tell...

I think if you looked objectively, you wouldnt say a player who has never played on small ice is a slam dunk to be a 90 point player. And for him to be better than Raymond at this point he needs to be better than that, and solid defensively.... only the biggest homer is saying thats a slam dunk

 

[bud12]

I think if you looked objectively, you wouldnt say a player who has never played on small ice is a slam dunk to be a 90 point player. And for him to be better than Raymond at this point he needs to be better than that, and solid defensively.... only the biggest homer is saying thats a slam dunk

majority of khl rink are nhl size

 

[Bigtrout]

I think if you looked objectively, you wouldnt say a player who has never played on small ice is a slam dunk to be a 90 point player. And for him to be better than Raymond at this point he needs to be better than that, and solid defensively.... only the biggest homer is saying thats a slam dunk

Half the rink in the KHL are NHL sized and that include his own team.

What Demidov is doing in this year is honestly nothing short of insanity, considering his coach glued him to the 3rd line with no pp time for most of the year, and played him sub 5 minutes for 10 games or so, yet Demidov is still on pace for the best u20 season ever in the khl. He should have been the slam dunk 2nd OA pick.

Like I said, I realise Raymond is more proven but here's how Demidov's pp60 compare to Michkov and Kaprisov at the same age:

Demidov (4.04), Kaprisov (3.32), Michkov (3.08).

Even strengh it get even better

Demidov (3.97), Kaprisov (2.78), Michkov (2,66)

He doesn't cheat for offense either and play a very responsible game

 

[NikolaTesla]

I think if you looked objectively, you wouldnt say a player who has never played on small ice is a slam dunk to be a 90 point player. And for him to be better than Raymond at this point he needs to be better than that, and solid defensively.... only the biggest homer is saying thats a slam dunk

More than half KHL rinks are nhl sized. Demidov has better stats than literally every khl rookie in history.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I dunno what's funnier between even entertaining a discussion of Hutson vs. Seider or guaranteeing that Demidov is a 90 point player.

 

[newfy]

Half the rink in the KHL are NHL sized and that include his own team.

What Demidov is doing in this year is honestly nothing short of insanity, considering his coach glued him to the 3rd line with no pp time for most of the year, and played him sub 5 minutes for 10 games or so, yet Demidov is still on pace for the best u20 season ever in the khl. He should have been the slam dunk 2nd OA pick.

Like I said, I realise Raymond is more proven but here's how Demidov's pp60 compare to Michkov and Kaprisov at the same age:

Demidov (4.04), Kaprisov (3.32), Michkov (3.08).

Even strengh it get even better

Demidov (3.97), Kaprisov (2.78), Michkov (2,66)

He doesn't cheat for offense either and play a very responsible game

Yeah that was a miss on my part about rink size, but it was also a point to playing a more north american game too not just ice size.

As for the rest, thats all good, Demidov is a really good prospect. I'm not saying I think another prospect is better though, I'm saying a guy who was drafted higher than him, is already doing at the NHL level what is basically Demidovs best outcome.

Even being really sure that Demidov can do what Raymond is doing right now(which is a tall task), theres people in this thread saying they prefer him over Raymond. Right now Raymond is 18th in league scoring at 22, 4 points out of the top 10 and has been playing a really good two way game for a year or more now.

You have to actually be nuts to say you prefer Demidov right now. That doesnt mean Demidov isnt great, it means he isnt better than a young superstar thats proving it in the NHL right now

 

[Dotter]

I dunno what's funnier between even entertaining a discussion of Hutson vs. Seider or guaranteeing that Demidov is a 90 point player.

My favorite is Hutson is a future norris winner. Dude is like 5'9 and 140 pounds. 44 good games as a rookie and suddenly you're the next 2025 version of Bobby Orr/Lidstrom hybrid if you play for MTL.

Now they are penciling in Demidov as the next 100+pt kucherov while never suiting up for one single NHL game.... EVER!

And here I thought Toronto fans were nuts. LOL!

When I look at MTL's roster I see a team being built to get chewed up and spit out in the playoffs.

 

[Bigtrout]

Yeah that was a miss on my part about rink size, but it was also a point to playing a more north american game too not just ice size.

As for the rest, thats all good, Demidov is a really good prospect. I'm not saying I think another prospect is better though, I'm saying a guy who was drafted higher than him, is already doing at the NHL level what is basically Demidovs best outcome.

Even being really sure that Demidov can do what Raymond is doing right now(which is a tall task), theres people in this thread saying they prefer him over Raymond. Right now Raymond is 18th in league scoring at 22, 4 points out of the top 10 and has been playing a really good two way game for a year or more now.

You have to actually be nuts to say you prefer Demidov right now. That doesnt mean Demidov isnt great, it means he isnt better than a young superstar thats proving it in the NHL right now

Just to be clear, I saw Demidov as a clear 1b to Celibrini before he was even drafted and I disagree that current day Raymond his the best case scenario for him. Call me crazy but I think he'll be a Kaprisov level player.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

My favorite is Hutson is a future norris winner. Dude is like 5'9 and 140 pounds. 44 good games as a rookie and suddenly you're the next 2025 version of Bobby Orr/Lidstrom hybrid if you play for MTL.

Now they are penciling in Demidov as the next 100+pt kucherov while never suiting up for one single NHL game.... EVER!

And here I thought Toronto fans were nuts. LOL!

When I look at MTL's roster I see a team being built to get chewed up and spit out in the playoffs.

Given that Matthews and Marner have been Selke Finalists the last two years, don't be surprised what Canadian media will do to shoehorn somebody into the voting...

All it takes is Quinn Hughes having a down/injury filled year for them to need a new hero's bandwagon to jump on.

Just to be clear, I saw Demidov as a clear 1b to Celibrini before he was even drafted and I disagree that current day Raymond his the best case scenario for him. Call me crazy but I think he'll be a Kaprisov level player.

It's not that he can't be better than Raymond.

... It's that calling him a slam dunk to be better than a 22 year old on pace for 90 points before he's even set foot in the NHL is kinda ridiculous lol.

 

[Bigtrout]

It's not that he can't be better than Raymond.

... It's that calling him a slam dunk to be better than a 22 year old on pace for 90 points before he's even set foot in the NHL is kinda ridiculous lol.

Lol I never said he was a slam dunk to be better than Raymond, ffs first thing I said is that I realise Raymond is already great and proven and that my opinion is biased.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Lol I never said he was a slam dunk to be better than Raymond, ffs first thing I said is that I realise Raymond is already great and proven and that my opinion is biased.

I never said you did.

This is a continuation of a debate between more posters than just yourself. I apologize if it came off that it was directed toward you, but that's not what I said, and another Montreal fan absolutely said that in this thread.

 

[Walksss]

Demidov will be better than Raymond, get your hot takes ready boys.

 

[HabsCode]

Wings AINEC, Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond is a core that Habs don't have (yet). Cossa, Kasper (already a solid NHL player), Danielsson, B-N, Augustine and the diamond Sandin-Pellikka on the prospect pool. I LOVE Hutson, Demidov will be a solid player, Kapanen will be a decent 3rd liner, Mailloux is a pretender. And i think higher about Slaf than most, but to me this is EASILY wings.

Disclaimer: VERY BIG bias.

How is Raymond that above a Suzuki or a Caufield, I would like to have your in-depth analysis on this. Do you base this on their 1 and 3 years difference?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Last year he wasnt anywhere close to a 90 points player. Demidov should be a 90 points player by age 22. He is dominating the khl at 19. Literally the best p/60 and by far.

17 points off the lead, is that dominating?
with some of those ahead being ex NHLers who were no longer good enough for NHL.

looks like you’re wrong again like you were on Tkachuk earlier.

 

[HabsCode]

Something with low alcohol content as I'm a buck 40 featherweight like Lane Hutson.

That explains everything. Seems like someone is projecting his insecurities on a 20 years old rookie.

 

[HabsCode]

17 points off the lead, is that dominating?
with some of those ahead being ex NHLers who were no longer good enough for NHL.

looks like you’re wrong again like you were on Tkachuk earlier.

He is doing it has a 19 years old, that is the point. Michkov was 54 points of the lead in His 19 years old season in the KHL (playing less game, but 5 minutes more of TOI per game than Demidov) Kaprizov 19 years old season in the KHL had him at 40 points of the lead. Panarin 19 years old season at 59 points of the lead. What Demidov is doing at his age in the KHL is truly remarkable.

 

[ole ole]

I don't see the Hab kids' future as being any more clear than the Wings kids, or any team's kids for that matter. To pretend otherwise is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I think the Habs have the best prospect in Demidov not playing in the NHL.
That could make a huge difference.

 

[ole ole]

Detroit has the best 2 pieces in Raymond + Seider between the 2 teams. But they each have enough prospects with high upside, ad have had a lot of picks the last few seasons that it could still go either way depending on how some guys pan out.

Suzuki is just as good as Raymond and i would trade Lane straight up for Seider.
Demidov is the best prospect not playing in the NHL.

 

[ole ole]

Habs fans flood every thread that’s ever created on this site so they will obviously get voted above, but with that said it’s pretty damn close. As of right now the red wings have the better top end players and I’m not sure that will change, though the habs do have demidov. I think the Canadians just have more good players overall, but I don’t know if they will be able to match the red wings top end. The fact of the matter is, the red wings go very underrated in these conversations. They have two elite goalie prospects, their defensive prospect pool is loaded. The biggest question is at forward, and admittedly they might not have a 1c in their pool.

Habs also have 2 elite goalie prospects. One is currently playing and is 4 and 0 with a
.98 GAA and a .963 SV% and 1 SO. Ya i understand it's early but have to give credit where credit is due. Very close between these 2 teams . I believe next season will answer a lot of questions.