Habs Off-season discussion Part 4 (Your ****** proposals still go here)

[S Bah]

The countdown is on in the Evander Kane sweepstakes, Habs GM Marc Bergevin has shown he's interested in the disgruntled LW. E.Kane is more the type of player that fits Bergevin's physical grinding style team, than the high scoring Vanek that didn't show a passion for the game in his short stay with the Habs. Also Kane is a more affordable player and could fit in under the Habs Salary Cap after signing Subban & Eller.

At $5.5 mil a year Kane could be a great fit as a 2nd line LW behind Max Pacioretty, it remains to be seen what the return Chevaldayoff Wpg.GM wants for Kane, but the longer it drags on the less it's likely to cost. As Ottawa GM said after Spezza wanted to be traded, you never get the same player in return. Dallas gave up A.Chiasson(C), and two minor leaguers & a 2nd round pick in 2015, for the 2001 #2 OV pick and Ottawa's Captain.

Now E.Kane isn't J.Spezza by any stretch of the imagination, so it begs the question what will it take for the Habs/Jets to make this happen. The Habs have acquired some depth in prospects at all positions giving Bergevin some good bargaining chips. It's probably better for the Wpg.Jets to get this dealt with before training camp, relieving tensions amongst the team and giving the players involved the summer to get acclimated with their new teams.

The Jets also have former 2010 Entry Draft 8th OV Alex Burmistrov, another disgruntled player that left for Russia after former coach Claude Noel sent him to the AHL and made him a healthy scratch, even though he was a fan favorite. Chevaldayoff might be interested in moving both players, the Habs are going with a youth movement and could be perfect trading partners. Playing in different Conferences is also a plus as each team's players won't come back to haunt their former teams.

The GM's both were in the Chicago Blackhawks front office before joining the Habs/Jets and have worked well together in the past. Seems a natural fit for a trade like this, which can benefit both teams, the Habs getting younger and the Jets getting veterans + a prospect or a high draft pick.

Come on Bergy & Chevaldayoff get this deal done and get ready for next season early, it's driving me crazy waiting for a deal to be done!

 

[JLP]

Desharnais congratulates Galchenyuk at the Habs Tennis Tournament

 

[Vi Nc E x13x]

Desharnais congratulates Galchenyuk at the Habs Tennis Tournament

and yet he can probably squat both of your weights together

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I'd trade Gallagher before Tinordi if no other choice in 1 minute.

Me too.

People will call us both crazy.

 

[borisbadenough]

Interesting article

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2014/07/18/rush-shot-stats-individual-players-forwards/

 

[Analyzer*]

Desharnais hit 60 points once.. I wouldn't move him for Crosby.

But will he ever hit puberty ?

 

[Kriss E]

Me too.

People will call us both crazy.

It's too much of a random statement to put any weight on. What are the team's needs? What's the return? What is the depth both at wing and defense?
I might do the same because there's no way Gallagher can keep performing as he has for very long. If he does, injuries will surely happen, he might have to adjust his game and how effective he'll become is completely unknown.

 

[JAVO16]

But will he ever hit puberty ?

Before Brière.

 

[NoNachoNoParty]

Me too.

People will call us both crazy.

Same here.

 

[Roulin]

I'd trade Gallagher before Tinordi if no other choice in 1 minute.

Me too.

People will call us both crazy.

Same here.

Whoooa. You are all 100% crazy.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Whoooa. You are all 100% crazy.

Gallagher is known quantity. He has some really good attributes, but I have to wonder how long he's gonna last playing the way he does.

Tinordi has insane potential. He's a really good skater with crazy size. I've seen him do everything : end to end rushes in the AHL where he pulls sweet moves to score highlight reel goals, fights, open ice hits, good shifts on the PK, good offensive pinches, great shots. He has the potential to do everything really well. What I wonder is if he'll put it all together. He was benched at his first mistake last season and never saw the ice again. I think he was a victim of vet depth and probably why MB didn't sign Murray/Bouillon. I hope he gets a bigger role next year. I prefer him over Beaulieu by quite a bit.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Its debatable, mkay?

While some of you have some opinion regarding Tinner vs Gally, just dont act like your opinion is The True One and you'd have to be crazy to disagree.

I persobally think Tinner is just promises so far. But i agree with others who say Gallagher will probably not age well.

 

[Roulin]

Gallagher is known quantity. He has some really good attributes, but I have to wonder how long he's gonna last playing the way he does.

Tinordi has insane potential. He's a really good skater with crazy size. I've seen him do everything : end to end rushes in the AHL where he pulls sweet moves to score highlight reel goals, fights, open ice hits, good shifts on the PK, good offensive pinches, great shots. He has the potential to do everything really well. What I wonder is if he'll put it all together. He was benched at his first mistake last season and never saw the ice again. I think he was a victim of vet depth and probably why MB didn't sign Murray/Bouillon. I hope he gets a bigger role next year. I prefer him over Beaulieu by quite a bit.

Its debatable, mkay?

While some of you have some opinion regarding Tinner vs Gally, just dont act like your opinion is The True One and you'd have to be crazy to disagree.

I persobally think Tinner is just promises so far. But i agree with others who say Gallagher will probably not age well.

Gallagher has been consistently healthy so far. I guess the scepticism over his long term health comes partly because of his size, but I've never seen any data that backs up the notion that tall players age better. I remember a few years ago, when it was the accepted wisdom on this board that Kovalev had far more career ahead of him than Koivu... it obviously didn't end up working out that way.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Gallagher has been consistently healthy so far. I guess the scepticism over his long term health comes partly because of his size, but I've never seen any data that backs up the notion that tall players age better. I remember a few years ago, when it was the accepted wisdom on this board that Kovalev had far more career ahead of him than Koivu... it obviously didn't end up working out that way.

No, it's not about size, it's about how often he goes to the net and gets roughed up.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Would the Habs improve a lot by trading for E Kane? IMO not dramatically. They did well in a minor trade by getting Parenteau and a 5th for Briere but the return for Kane might be too expensive. As for including Gallagher, we should understand that the Habs are understaffed at RW. He makes his line click and he would be missed. Also, I imagine the Jets would demand a lot more than Gallagher and I'd be concerned about how the Habs would be depleted. I'd wait for the prospects to develop. Sekac, Marschak, and DLR look like viable candidates and they're not the only ones in the system. The Vanek trade seemed logical at the time but it didn't work out in the end. (Vanek, Collberg, and the 2nd rounder are history and the Habs didn't reach the SCF.)

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Gallagher has been consistently healthy so far. I guess the scepticism over his long term health comes partly because of his size, but I've never seen any data that backs up the notion that tall players age better. I remember a few years ago, when it was the accepted wisdom on this board that Kovalev had far more career ahead of him than Koivu... it obviously didn't end up working out that way.

Like it's been said. It's not necessarily ONLY about his size. It's more of his style of play. The amount of abuse he has to endure on a permanent basis, game after game. The necessity of him always push his 100%, which is easier now in his youth than it will be when he will hit 30

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Like it's been said. It's not necessarily ONLY about his size. It's more of his style of play. The amount of abuse he has to endure on a permanent basis, game after game. The necessity of him always push his 100%, which is easier now in his youth than it will be when he will hit 30

I could see a career path similar to Adam Deadmarsh, cause if I remember well, Adam played a similar style, and well, Deadmarsh had to stop at about 27 or 28 yo, cause of multiple injuries/concussions. And he was bigger than Gallagher.

But who knows, perhaps he can reinvent himself at some point in his career, cause he's got a pretty good wrist shot.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Gallagher is known quantity. He has some really good attributes, but I have to wonder how long he's gonna last playing the way he does.

Tinordi has insane potential. He's a really good skater with crazy size. I've seen him do everything : end to end rushes in the AHL where he pulls sweet moves to score highlight reel goals, fights, open ice hits, good shifts on the PK, good offensive pinches, great shots. He has the potential to do everything really well. What I wonder is if he'll put it all together. He was benched at his first mistake last season and never saw the ice again. I think he was a victim of vet depth and probably why MB didn't sign Murray/Bouillon. I hope he gets a bigger role next year. I prefer him over Beaulieu by quite a bit.

His upside is very very limited imo, I'm not sure what you see tbh. Beaulieu is better at almost everything.

 

[bsl]

Its debatable, mkay?

While some of you have some opinion regarding Tinner vs Gally, just dont act like your opinion is The True One and you'd have to be crazy to disagree.

I persobally think Tinner is just promises so far. But i agree with others who say Gallagher will probably not age well.

Gallagher should not be on line 1, he will eventually get killed playing against top D 82 games per year. He is a fantastic no 2 RW and that is where he should be. Habs are gonna kill this kid in that no 1 role.

I'm so frustrated at Habs not being able to produce or find a top RW. It's really bugging my ass.

Nets: Price
D: Subby
C: Chucky, eventually.
Star RW? : Nothing. Nada. Zero. Nothing in the system either. (IMO Scherback is not at the level I'm talking about, but let's hope I'm wrong.)

It's the last piece, and it's hugely important.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

His upside is very very limited imo, I'm not sure what you see tbh. Beaulieu is better at almost everything.

I agree that Beaulieu is better at almost everything, save for hitting and fighting a suppose. While I don't think Tinner's upside is very limited, I don't see it as being "insane potential".

He can skate well for a man of that size, has a long reach and uses it well, can lay crushing hits and fight with the best of them. I've seen him make some really nice rushes in the AHL, but it remains to be seen if he can replicate that in the NHL. I've wanted Tinner to become the perfect partner for PK for a couple years now.

I'm still hopeful he can make it to that level, but his decision making in his own zone is what scares me. He often gets lost in his coverage, unsure as to which forward to cover. He tends to follow his man behind the net, leaving the crease open. Once he gets the puck on his stick, he again seems unsure what to do with it. When pressured, it can look like he just wants to get rid of it at all costs. He should be more patient with the puck and use his huge frame to his advantage when protecting the puck.

So yea he has all of the physical attributes to be a solid top 4 defenseman. But his IQ and decision making is quite worrisome, and the IQ part can not be taught.

On the other hand, Beaulieu's hockey sense and vision is great. Which complements his skating, hands, passing. He projects to be quite more valuable to a team than Tinner. I love Tinordi's size, physicality, shutdown style, and great character traits, but in the new NHL puck possession defensemen are more important.

Maybe the "insane potential" and reluctance to include Tinner in trade proposals is the McD factor, which is absolutely ridiculous as Tinner is no where near the talent McD is.

 

[FrontierPsyCHiatrist*]

Will we score enough goals in 2014-15?

We only have 1 sniper, his name is Max... Pleky, DD, PAP, Galchenyuk, Eller are known as playmakers. Who will take charge of scoring goals if Max goes down? We have the assets to make a trade for a sniper winger, lack of goal scoring may give us troubles, losing 2-1 3-2 sucks.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

I agree that Beaulieu is better at almost everything, save for hitting and fighting a suppose. While I don't think Tinner's upside is very limited, I don't see it as being "insane potential".

He can skate well for a man of that size, has a long reach and uses it well, can lay crushing hits and fight with the best of them. I've seen him make some really nice rushes in the AHL, but it remains to be seen if he can replicate that in the NHL. I've wanted Tinner to become the perfect partner for PK for a couple years now.

I'm still hopeful he can make it to that level, but his decision making in his own zone is what scares me. He often gets lost in his coverage, unsure as to which forward to cover. He tends to follow his man behind the net, leaving the crease open. Once he gets the puck on his stick, he again seems unsure what to do with it. When pressured, it can look like he just wants to get rid of it at all costs. He should be more patient with the puck and use his huge frame to his advantage when protecting the puck.

So yea he has all of the physical attributes to be a solid top 4 defenseman. But his IQ and decision making is quite worrisome, and the IQ part can not be taught.

On the other hand, Beaulieu's hockey sense and vision is great. Which complements his skating, hands, passing. He projects to be quite more valuable to a team than Tinner. I love Tinordi's size, physicality, shutdown style, and great character traits, but in the new NHL puck possession defensemen are more important.

Maybe the "insane potential" and reluctance to include Tinner in trade proposals is the McD factor, which is absolutely ridiculous as Tinner is no where near the talent McD is.

Something is sure, people should be wary of including Tinordi's 'rushes' in his projected potential, I remember Komisarek being pretty productive in the AHL (but at the same time, they had a great team back then), and it never amounted to much in the NHL (despite his 98mph slap shot that he took ages to release).

But, IMO, he still have all the tools to be a top 4 shutdown D in the NHL, it just remains to be seen if he can put everything together for that to happen. Beaulieu, IMO, is, like you said, the prototypical D of the new NHL, but in no way Tinordi's style is not valuable anymore. Gorges was overpaid, but he still was very valuable in our zone, even though his production was nearly non-existent. I expect Tinordi to become as valuable as Gorges was, but at 6'6 230lbs and being way more physical.

May happen, I sure hope so.

And about McD, he had great potential, and had a setback the year after he was drafted, but, I don't remember him being labeled as a no 1 D... so who knows about Tinordi (even though I still won't put him in his category)

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Something is sure, people should be wary of including Tinordi's 'rushes' in his projected potential, I remember Komisarek being pretty productive in the AHL (but at the same time, they had a great team back then), and it never amounted to much in the NHL (despite his 98mph slap shot that he took ages to release).

But, IMO, he still have all the tools to be a top 4 shutdown D in the NHL, it just remains to be seen if he can put everything together for that to happen. Beaulieu, IMO, is, like you said, the prototypical D of the new NHL, but in no way Tinordi's style is not valuable anymore. Gorges was overpaid, but he still was very valuable in our zone, even though his production was nearly non-existent. I expect Tinordi to become as valuable as Gorges was, but at 6'6 230lbs and being way more physical.

May happen, I sure hope so.

And about McD, he had great potential, and had a setback the year after he was drafted, but, I don't remember him being labeled as a no 1 D... so who knows about Tinordi (even though I still won't put him in his category)

Agreed. If Tinordi can become a 6'6 230lbs physical version of Gorges, I'll be really happy. Or even a bigger better skating version of Matt Greene would be very valuable. It's an important role on any winning team.

The one thing that can hold him back from being that top 4 defenseman is decision making / hockey sense. But I'm hopeful that he'll make it.

I still place much more importance on that prototypical puck possession defenseman however.

 

[Roulin]

The Rangers have signed Stempniak for 900K. Exactly the amount smart, wealthy organizations should be offering players they might have to bury in the AHL without cap consequence, but players who might also be valuable depth. I'd like to see the Habs extend the same offer to Penner or Booth.

 

[Lozela]

Would you part ways with Pacioretty & Gallagher in a deal that could land you Sharp & Kane ?

Gallagher - 1st for E.Kane

Pacioretty for Patrick Sharp