Speculation: Habs Mega Thread

[Archijerej]

We're reasonably well set for picks, missing this year's second.

Based on what you've described, it would have to be picks then.

For Chiarot, I think a 2nd and a 3rd would be the price.

Drouin is more tricky, but you are trading for what you hope is a top-6 player at below $3M cap hit. What's that worth in your opinion?

So "rebuild the Canadiens without trading anyone of value?" The only players of value are Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Guhle.

That's absurd.

 

[Archijerej]

sure, let's waste 2 of our 3 retain spots for some mid picks.

Don't retain, then. Play them, bury them in the minors, or trade for reduced return. There should be a market for Holl even without retention.

anyway, if Anderson is moved, it's outside of our division

What are we Buffalo now?

 

[WatchfulElm]

I don't believe in a total "burn the ground" kind of rebuild. It never works. You need to keep a few veterans to act as mentor for the young guys. So in my version of a rebuild,

I keep :
- Suzuki
- Caufield
- Romanov
- Gallagher, Anderson, Byron : I also give them the C and A's. Their salary make them unattractive on the trade market anyway. And we need to reach the cap floor.
- Most prospects and picks

I definitely trade :
- Price
- Hoffman
- Dvorak
- Drouin
- Armia
- Lehkonen
- Perreault
- Chiarot
- Wideman
- Kulak
- Petry, Edmundson, Savard (but I'm willing to keep one of them for cap floor reasons)

On the fence :
- Toffoli
- Evans
- Allen (we need someone to play in goal)

 

[sansabri]

Don't retain, then. Play them, bury them in the minors, or trade for reduced return. There should be a market for Holl even without retention.

What are we Buffalo now?

do we have to be Buffalo to think logically now? if Anderson was a UFA there'd be no issue with trading him within the division

 

[RationalExpectations]

My guess is that if MTL rebuilds :
Drouin Anderson Toffoli Armia Hoffman would be traded during the season / in the offseason or at the draft. I believe Evans would also be a nice addition for a team looking for a fast skating 4C to be used for PK and not expecting massive production. (I'd look at teams with a great top 6 and limited ice time for their bottom 6) but I believe he is signed to an ok contract so not sure why MTL would move him.

Chiarot Lehkonen Kulak Niku Perreault at the TDL

Savard Dvorak just got signed and their value has been decreasing since arriving in MTL so don't see them being moved

Gallagher Petry have NTCs but you never know

Price is the elephant in the room but let's not open this box (we know how it ends, Price at 50% has value but the Habs would not retain 50% during 5 years for a late first, close thread)

 

[Cogburn]

Based on what you've described, it would have to be picks then.

For Chiarot, I think a 2nd and a 3rd would be the price.

Drouin is more tricky, but you are trading for what you hope is a top-6 player at below $3M cap hit. What's that worth in your opinion?

Chiarot is a fine deal then. The only caveat I'd have is that we don't have a 2022 2nd round pick, so it would have to be one from next season, along with Winnipeg's 3rd being what we own this year.

I said in an earlier reply to one of your fellow Habs fans, I had thought that Drouin was someone the Canadiens fan base were looking to dump, which has apparently changed. I was looking at him being around neutral at full pull, and at half...maybe a second? His point totals are better then I remember, hitting just shy of 50 points across an adjusted 82 games in his time in Montreal, so he'd be a firm top six choice. He might be the wrong pick for me though, as I was looking for a middle six winger with some offensive talent, more so than someone that would produce like a second line winger. Someone to fill out a third line until injuries hit.

 

[Archijerej]

I said in an earlier reply to one of your fellow Habs fans, I had thought that Drouin was someone the Canadiens fan base were looking to dump, which has apparently changed.

We did want to dump him, but that was when we still thought we'd compete for the playoffs. His cap hit was a hindrance that prevented us from making the necessary adjustments to the roster. The situation has changed now and we can afford to have him play out his contract and either move him as a rental, or even retain him if he plays well.

He might be the wrong pick for me though, as I was looking for a middle six winger with some offensive talent, more so than someone that would produce like a second line winger. Someone to fill out a third line until injuries hit.

Fair enough.

 

[Archijerej]

Chevy would never in a million years give up a first for Chiarot. 4th at most.

You should be expecting a second at best. And that would be a big win for you guys.

My fellow Habs fans are too optimistic, expecting a 1st for Chiarot. That's the absolute best case scenario and many stars would have to allign for that to happen.

However, that's not a reason for you to be silly.

 

[Chet Manley]

Chariot @50% retained for Kris Russell + Oilers 1st rnd pick

Insurance in case old man Keith falls down and can't get up for a few games.

 

[Archijerej]

I'm not sure the Savard trade is a good comparison for Chiarot in getting a 1st. Savard had years of really good play (although I'm not sure he was much better than Chiarot at the time he finally did get traded) and generated a fair bit of talk around the league well in advance. Chiarot really only has some good play next to much better D partners, and certainly isn't as well known a name.

Add on to that that the lack of play and thus scouting of the 2021 draft meant draft picks had lower value last season than they will this season.

That being said, it's not out of the question that some team desperately lacking size on D will pay for him.

Not a chance the Jets will pay a 1st for him though. Our LD is pretty set.

That's a very fair take.

I would add that Tampa was pretty much guaranteed to go far in the playoffs, thus lowering the value of the pick even further.

So, in order for the Habs to get a 1st, it would have to be a legitimately elite team that suddenly found itself missing a LD, which are generally in much better supply than RDs.

I've always maintained that we should look at what Dillon was traded for as a comparison.

 

[Archijerej]

Chariot @50% retained for Kris Russell + Oilers 1st rnd pick

Insurance in case old man Keith falls down and can't get up for a few games.

That's a deal.

 

[glenbuis]

Chariot @50% retained for Kris Russell + Oilers 1st rnd pick

Insurance in case old man Keith falls down and can't get up for a few games.

i'm in for this as well . how do we get it done ?

 

[General Fanager]

Everybody but Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov and Anderson are available. Make your offers

I dont know why you would make a thread like this. It always ends up being a Habs hate fest for the trolls on this site.....

 

[General Fanager]

Kerfoot and Holl are of no use to the Habs, but I guess they could flip the former for a 3rd round pick. So that leaves us with a late 1st, 3rd and Holl for Petry.

I guess it's not terrible if there's no market for Petry, but we would likely want something more tangible in return.

Anyways, it's doubtful we are ever going to be in a position to trade Petry. It would turn our already bad defence into AHL quality.



Not bad, depending on how our scouting sees Robertson. The question is how he fits into our future lineup. We have Caufield as a shoot-first winger for Suzuki and Dvorak needs more of a playmaking winger.



He might still be a part of the future core, but until he establishes himself as such, it would be silly to deem him "untouchable".



Done. Let's make it no retention from MTL and no added quality from the oilers.



The Habs need RD and C prospects and a LW who can complement Suzuki - Caufield or play with Dvorak. Other than that, we need draft picks.

.


Thats the last thing The Habs need. Habs scouts will just screw them up. Go get prospects that other teams competent scouts have picked.

 

[Archijerej]

.


Thats the last thing The Habs need. Habs scouts will just screw them up. Go get prospects that other teams competent scouts have picked.

Draft picks can be used in trades.

 

[Lolonegoal]

He knew they had an improbable run last year. He knew about Price injury. He knew Weber was probably done. He knew Danault wasn’t likely to return.

He absolutely misread the roster. He thought they were going to compete by adding Savard and Dvorak. He probably thought Suzuki and Canfield were ready to pick up the slack. They weren’t (though I do like both long term).

How do you know he misread the team?

Maybe he knows he was f***ed, doesnt have the ability or assets to simply replace a 1C, 1D and 1G in one off season.

Do you.think he then goes to the public and announces 'oh shit, were f***ed'? Or do you think he just goes about his business?

 

[Colezuki]

Why would a team finishing somewhere between 20th-32nd pay a first for a supposedly decent playoff performer if they’re missing the playoffs?

In the draft order to clarify

 

[ottomaddox]

How do you know he misread the team?

Maybe he knows he was f***ed, doesnt have the ability or assets to simply replace a 1C, 1D and 1G in one off season.

Do you.think he then goes to the public and announces 'oh shit, were f***ed'? Or do you think he just goes about his business?

I have to agree.

Maybe people could suggest what Bergevin should have done in the wake of Webber/Price not playing at the moment.

I still think Bergevin will make some moves though.

 

[samsagat]

Meh, they'll turn it around.

No need to panic quite yet.

Being realistic ≠ panic

 

[Habs10025]

Bergevin isn't being fired. He isn't changing the team to the extent some are wanting if he makes any trades it will be closer to or at the trade deadline .

 

[samsagat]

Toffoli for a late/mid first pick
Armia : 2nd pick
Chariot : 2nd + 3rd
Wideman : 3rd
Savard : 2nd
Petry : 2nd + 3rd + 3rd 2023

Problem is you'll have to take back salary if you want to trade those players.

 

[Habs10025]

Montreal are not doing a rebuild .

 

[RationalExpectations]

Holy crap. Just tank already. You had your cincerella miracle run. Fun stuff. Time to do what the organization has needed for years, TANK.

It would have tanked if not for Covid. MTL has been bad since 2017-2018, i.e. when Bergevin failed to replace Markov Emelin Plekanec Radulov and signed Price to a 10.5m contract. Basically this team was not great but it died as soon as the core Bergevin took over was spent, gives you an idea of how good his job has been.

 

[RationalExpectations]

we have to get around 96 pts to get into playoffs

43-22-4 in the remaining schedule


we don't have the team for that...

Don't care about not making the playoffs, worst thing would be ending up 11OA and giving the 1st to ARI for Dvorak...

 

[RationalExpectations]

Worst than Petry - Schlemko - Benn - Morrow - Mete - Jerabek - Juulsen ???

I think even the year after (Petry, Weber, Reilly, Mete, Kulak, Benn) was worst than this year's D.

It's maybe #3 in the past 5 years

The issue is that Reilly Mete could move the puck... we have big bodies who can't make the transition from D to Offense.