CBC Hot Stove: Habs looking for top 4 D
- Thread starter BatVader
- Start date
Yeah, I get your thinking. You know me as a Brodin bobo, but am also a fan of Scandella( my brother lives close to him in NDG). I find it funny how Brodin's good start and Scandella's meh start have altered their value to fans. Last year you could find all sorts of fans who preferred Scandella. Hopefully, our GM will take the longer view. I value Brodin more because of his youth and skating skills, but I can easily make an argument for keeping Scandella( toughness, shooting) if Brodin nets us a better package.
Even if MTL's pick ends up being a 20oa, plus a McCarron( nice, but not needed) for a Scandella I'm not thrilled. I would far rather have something like an 8-12oa, where the chances are far greater of a future top line player.
Remember, trading a Brodin or Scandella to MTL would automatically make them better, while costing them nothing, making their pick LESS valuable.
And we'd have to take a salary dump of some sort, I think in order to make the deal work from MTL's perspective. Hard to get excited about that.
Since I like Scandella, if he has to be traded I would like it to be to MTL, as he could be close to his family.
Damn son, I'm a Canucks fan and if I were you I'd sell some serious assets for Fowler.
2 years at 4m for a smooth skating high minute dman on a win now team is pretty worthwhile.
The only problem with a Fowler deal is that they may want significant roster pieces in return.
Right now Canucks probably would want a significant roster forward if they do trade Edler but maybe at the deadline they take a more serious look at first + prospects type of deal.
Trades are hard this early into the season. Still anyone's game until the quarter mark where its more gauge-able
I think the consensuses on Edler is that with an offensive minded defenceman he'd be a lot better. Unfortunately unless Stecher takes a step and becomes that guy Canucks will not have that in the system until he's likely gone.
Either way, he's still a good passer, hits like a truck at times. Has brain farts time to time with greedy stretch passes.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
It's easy to address Montreal's situation and say they need a top 4D and 2nd line center improvement over Pleky. Truth is, unless MB wants to do another Subban for Weber deal, the additions/subtractions will be minor IMO.
Option 1: Fowler is the ideal guy but this will require a Gally type return. Ana doesn't need D so don't bother trying to give them Emelin. I think all Habs and Ducks fans agree the Habs and Ducks are not good trading partners at this point in time. I wonder if Lehkonen holds any value with the Ducks?
Option 2: Edler is an interesting one. I don't have Van as a playoff team and unless I'm wrong, they may be interested in trading Edler in a few months once they realize where they stand. The Habs would prefer to trade picks and prospects and the Canucks may be ok with that. Habs also have to give a player back with salary to take on Edler's $5M and that is more than likely DD because his contract is done after this year. 1st round pick, DD, and Ghetto would be my max offer. If no, then move on if I were the habs. There are no guarantees Edler makes the Habs better and his $5M per season for 2 more seasons after this one would be painful!
Option 3: Make a smaller move for a pending UFA. MDZ on the flyers would cost very small and it would be worth the gamble IMO. Would a 2nd or 3rd round pick get it done? Not sure.
The Habs don't have much space in the Cap to work with so any player they want making more than $3M would require another player making significant salary going the other way. Why mess with the roster at this stage? I'm not big on Emelin or DD but I do like depth in case of injuries. I say leave the roster as it is! MB needs to do whatever he can to leave the roster as cheap as possible so we have Cap space to work with come trade deadline! That's the most important thing at the moment IMO
Option 1: Fowler is the ideal guy but this will require a Gally type return. Ana doesn't need D so don't bother trying to give them Emelin. I think all Habs and Ducks fans agree the Habs and Ducks are not good trading partners at this point in time. I wonder if Lehkonen holds any value with the Ducks?
Option 2: Edler is an interesting one. I don't have Van as a playoff team and unless I'm wrong, they may be interested in trading Edler in a few months once they realize where they stand. The Habs would prefer to trade picks and prospects and the Canucks may be ok with that. Habs also have to give a player back with salary to take on Edler's $5M and that is more than likely DD because his contract is done after this year. 1st round pick, DD, and Ghetto would be my max offer. If no, then move on if I were the habs. There are no guarantees Edler makes the Habs better and his $5M per season for 2 more seasons after this one would be painful!
Option 3: Make a smaller move for a pending UFA. MDZ on the flyers would cost very small and it would be worth the gamble IMO. Would a 2nd or 3rd round pick get it done? Not sure.
The Habs don't have much space in the Cap to work with so any player they want making more than $3M would require another player making significant salary going the other way. Why mess with the roster at this stage? I'm not big on Emelin or DD but I do like depth in case of injuries. I say leave the roster as it is! MB needs to do whatever he can to leave the roster as cheap as possible so we have Cap space to work with come trade deadline! That's the most important thing at the moment IMO
Keep dreaming.I personally wouldn't listen to an offer without Sergachev, but in terms of value you'd be looking at Juulsen+Scherbak+1st.
He's a top pairing d-man on a good contract. Offering a very late 1st, waive wire fodder, and a cap dump won't get you a top 2 d-man, let alone any top 4 d-man.
Uncle Gary
Registered User
- Apr 12, 2014
- 5,206
- 2,583
I personally wouldn't listen to an offer without Sergachev, but in terms of value you'd be looking at Juulsen+Scherbak+1st.
He's a top pairing d-man on a good contract. Offering a very late 1st, waive wire fodder, and a cap dump won't get you a top 2 d-man, let alone any top 4 d-man.
If you think you can get a prospect of Sergachev's caliber for Edler, you are dreaming.
montreal
Go Habs Go
The Habs can't fit Edler without sending salary back. But for a management team that in the past has refused to part with a 1st and or top prospects, there's no way they would part with Juulsen, Scherbak and a 1st, way too much for a guy that since the lockout has put up 74 pts in 199 games which is an ave of about 30 pts a year over 82 games. I'd be all for getting him but no way would I give up Juulsen and Scherbak plus a 1st even if they took DD off our hands.
Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the memo that apparently states that Sergachev is guaranteed to become a top pairing d-man.
Potential > proven talent.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
30+ year old guy who is over paid vs a #9 overall pick Dman with size and skating ability with top end skill. Your searching bud! Seriously
hersky77
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2007
- 8,370
- 652
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Edler is not a good fit. He's too big a salary and not the same as getting a Fowler type guy. Edler may flourish playing in Montreal like Petry did but the Price needs to be a 1st round pick, DD and a NHL ready prospect like Ghetto, Hudon, or Carr. That's the max and that's what Van would get from other teams as well.
Then Montreal is going to have a very difficult time finding a true top 4 d-man. The price for top 4 d-men is very high right now, just about every team could use another one. If Montreal continues to be that way, then you'll probably end up with another Gonchar-type acquisition.
Also, people really need to stop bringing up Edler's point totals. He's not the 40+ point d-man he was 5+ years ago, he changed his game and is a much better d-man overall. He's way better defensively but is still good at moving the puck.
He's 30 (still has plenty left in the tank), and a top pairing d-man making only $5M is far from overpaid.
Also, he's signed for 2 more years after this year, not too long and not too short.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Your 100% right and that's why I think the Habs make minor moves instead. If I'm the Habs, there is no way I'm paying a heavy price for a top 4D over 30 and over paid. Highest point total Edler has is 49pts and that was like 4 or 5 seasons ago in his mid 20's. He's been in the 20's and 30's in pts/season ever since and now injury prone! Van has to come to realize your not selling high with this guy at his age and contract. That's the truth and all teams will tell Van that if they want to unload his salary
Rick74*
Registered User
They need to start blowing their wad to creating a team now, while Price is in his prime. So it's nice to see them thinking about aggressively making moves to improve for the near future.
montreal
Go Habs Go
They got Gonchar for nothing, there's a big difference between paying next to nothing and giving up 3 1st round picks for a 15M contract that has declining production. But that's the problem with the trade board, it's fans vs fans and most can't remove emotions, they think their guy is worth so much and the other side thinks they can steal good players for cheap. The Habs did land Petry for a 2nd and a 4th and right now he's our 2nd best defensemen so far this year. I'm not saying the Habs wouldn't be interested if they could fit him but I just don't see them giving up 3 1st round picks for him. I know I wouldn't want them too. That doesn't mean that a package of Beaulieu, 1st and 2nd round picks, plus one of our top prospects in McCarron/Scherbak/Juulsen can't yield us something much better then Gonchar.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
He's 30 (still has plenty left in the tank), and a top pairing d-man making only $5M is far from overpaid.
Correction he is 30. Also, if he was $3-4 per season, his value would be very high because many teams would be knocking on the door... if the Canucks would be willing to trade him. Personally, I think the $5m is too high. The Canucks would do better if the waited for him to shake the injury prone status and get close to 50pts again
Yeah, that package would probably get you a top 4 d-man, but part of the challenge is finding a team that would move their top 4 d-man for mostly futures. Teams like Anaheim (Fowler) and Minnesota (Scandella) probably want pieces that can help them now, maybe a straight up trade for a young NHL forward with equal value.
Going back to Edler, it's such a high price for me because it's a trade for quantity and it's unproven assets that could all become nothing. Not many teams would trade a top 4 d-man for a prospect with top 4 potential unless their d-man is very old (35+) and/or an upcoming UFA.
The Habs' 1st is likely to be very late especially if they continue to improve their team via trade, and while McCarron/Scherbak/Juulsen are very good prospects, they aren't great prospects with very high potential. A guy like Sergachev at least has the ceiling to be a top 2 d-man, but there's no guarantee he will ever reach that potential. (I'm personally not very high on Beaulieu as well)
Anyway, it's way too early to acquire a quality d-man, every team still has a chance to make the playoffs and I can't see many teams just giving up at this point by trading their top 4 d-man for futures.
deckercky
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2010
- 9,382
- 2,461
Vancouver isn't selling 2011 Edler. Edler's contract is still very good value. It's tough to add for any contender because salary is scarce around the league, but it's still very good value for the defenceman Edler is today and will be for the remainder of his contract.
Marc-E-
Registered User
I agree with everything here. I didn't consider taking salary back actually, good point. If it was a one year deal thing I wouldn't care but anything longer is pretty much a deal breaker. Ideally brodin and dumba both have great years and we trade one of them+ a forward for a legit threat.
A Loyal Demidog
Marc Bergevin's Bitch
- Oct 20, 2016
- 9,783
- 11,978
As a Habs fan, I somewhat agree with this post. If a player like Larsson fetched Taylor Hall, it's only normal to think that whether or not people undervalue or overvalue Edler, he will cost quite a pretty penny. Giving up prospects isn't the same as giving up actual tried players. Of course high-end prospects can end up becoming great, but there are others that end up being big disappointments (sorry Nail Yakupov). While GMs do trade actual players for picks pre-draft, they're also taking a major gamble on what's to come.
That said, Vancouver isn't in a position to contend. Sure, they might make the playoffs, but let's be real: does anybody here think (even one bit) that the Canucks can win a Stanley Cup this year? I really don't, and I'm sure many others don't either. They're missing quite a few key players, and should go in rebuild-mode. Now's the time to get rid of older players and try a fresh new start. You can keep some players for leadership, etc, but don't go in expecting to make a trade that will change everything all at once. Trading away a 30 year old D who's on a slight decline for 1st round picks/great prospects isn't a terrible idea. The future is what should matter most to a rebuilding team, not the present. Montreal is seeking for players in present-mode. They can give up some of their futures to improve right now. But to expect Montreal giving away 3-4 first round picks (which is really substantial) in exchange for a declining 30 year-old D, I don't see how that would ever happen. Trading Sergachev + 2 top prospects (or Beaulieu + top prospect) + 1st won't get you Edler. It'll get you someone way better IMO. For sure someone like Muzzin/Fowler value at the very least.
Lastly, I wouldn't undervalue Emelin. A lot of posters on here like to laugh at Emelin/DD, etc. Emelin is a very tough D to play against (for other teams). I wouldn't personally want to trade him or Pateryn - they're essential to our playmaking. Beaulieu on the other hand is a very good skater, and still has lots of room for improvement, but I could see him leave MTL because he just doesn't "fit" the bill on our team - he has a lot more potential to play elsewhere (he can be a very good top 4 elsewhere, just not Montreal.. Sometimes certain players don't fit certain teams). And while Beaulieu alone won't get you a proven top-4 D, don't expect any team to offer a ridiculous amount for a declining D on a team that needs a rebuild. It just won't happen.
Last edited:
Ad
Latest posts
-
Recalled/Assigned: Joshua Roy recalled from the Laval Rocket- Latest: Kobe Armstrong
-
