LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[Ryder71]

lol- this is dubas

just don't make the deal by tomorrow and he'll cave - he can and he will

Nope. lol

 

[oceanchild]

If he doesn't show he's NHL ready to start next year, that means he'd require waivers. That literally puts him exactly on the Derrick Pouliot level.

We've seen this countless times with former top-10 picks. If you're a prospect who's hitting waiver eligibility when you haven't shown you can cut it at the NHL, your value is essentially zero. It's the same exact thing that happened with Juolevi with the Canucks too.

Oh, so now you dwindle it down to a small technicality to make your case of wavier exempt. That timeline of value yoh refer to is for the start of next season. Linden Vey, and Baertschi are two of countless examples where prospects who were running out of waiver eligibility were traded with value.

I know that doesn’t fit your narrow or however.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Poulin projects as a 2-way center if he ever cuts it at the NHL.

And yes, I don't think Poulin is all that good. Nor do I think Podkolzin is all that good. As soon as their waiver exemption runs out, they immediately have no value anymore.

Poulin is tracking to be a career AHLer. 2 way player that is ppg yet is still being passed over for a NHL look by 0.5 ppg AHLers. Podkolzin is a 2 way winger and is once again back in the NHL and looking like a 3rd/4th liner again. Cost effective young 3rd liners have value.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh, so now you dwindle it down to a small technicality to make your case of wavier exempt. That timeline of value yoh refer to is for the start of next season. Linden Vey, and Baertschi are two of countless examples where prospects who were running out of waiver eligibility were traded with value.

I know that doesn’t fit your narrow or however.

That's not a "small technicality", that is a massive driver in player value.

I'm done responding to Canucks fans in here. They're not getting Guentzel and they're downright delusional about their players.

Poulin is tracking to be a career AHLer. 2 way player that is ppg yet is still being passed over for a NHL look by 0.5 ppg AHLers. Podkolzin is a 2 way winger and is once again back in the NHL and looking like a 3rd/4th liner again. Cost effective young 3rd liners have value.

There is literally nothing to suggest Poulin is tracking to be a career AHLer while Podkolzin is tracking to be a surefire NHLer.

 

[Pens1566]

i've been reading it and chuckling thanks.

it's actually kind of interesting in a hockey anthropological sense to watch a previously calm and measured fanbase like the pens start to beclown itself when faced with the adversity of its team no longer being immediately relevant. the temptation to try to bluff win imaginary hockey trade discussions on the interweb to compensate for your team no longer winning games on the ice seems to be almost universal. i hope pens pull off their retool so you guys don't make a habit of this kind of thread. nobody wants to hear your disingenuous salty opinons of other teams' players, or your tire pumping takes on your own assets. we can read bruins trade threads for that and it's more entertaining to read their bluster posts with an imagined southie accent.

so good luck with the guentzel thing. you guys have less room to retool than you think so i hope it works out better than moving kesler did for us.

I mean, ok? Feel better?

Concern trolling aside, it's actually quite refreshing to not care about how a game turns out every other night for the first time in what seems to be forever. Quite the opposite of what you suggest. Enjoy the relevance.

 

[JKG33]

I'm done responding to Canucks fans in here.

Everyone reading this thread sends their thanks

 

[red devil]

 

[LuLover96]

https://x.com/reporterchris/status/1765128035974459864?s=46&t=2aeBU7DXLsOLhqh2JQCg3Q

 

[JKG33]

Now that would make for a spicy deadline

 

[High n Wide]

Some of this I wonder is if the teams in on Guentzel want to know who wins as well. So they can look for option 2 or 3.

Similar to UFAs in some summers. The biggest Turkey (Guentzel) holds up who gets the other turkeys.

Sure, I can buy that. And I do get that it's a who blinks first sort of situation. If you try to call the bluff that the Penguins hold until Friday and you're wrong obviously you've lost out on Guentzel.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Podkolzin is a worse prospect than Sam Poulin, who most Penguins fans have written off.

As much as I don't want Podz moved as he is my favourite Canucks forward prospect, now I hope he is traded to the pens for Jake to see you implode, followed by oh shit I look really stupid for my original hot takes based on absolutely nothing but hockey DB.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jim Rutherford special: trade a good amount for a guy, wait 15 games and then trade him for less than what you paid for him

He did the same exact thing with Gudbranson while the Penguins GM.

 

[IcedCapp]

This is typical Toronto media deadline bullshit. And when this doesn’t happen, they’ll pivot to, “it was just too big a deal for it to happen in-season.”

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I see what you are saying but it would be just that a one off.

Going for it with Necas and Signed Guentzel and get back ur assets for a Necas RFA trade in the offseason.

You get older but better (for a few years) and secure with your signing. Something feels fishy about Necas and the canes front office.

To me, that's fine. Guentzel's next contract is potentially more harmful to Carolina's future than a lost 1st round pick.

Carolina isn't doing anything unprecedented here. Washington didn't buy high priced rentals until they made that one exception (Shattenkirk). St. Louis ended up doing it just one time as well (Miller). Ditto Tampa (Savard), interestingly.

While on the subject of conservatism, aggressive GMs over the years have included Sweeney (Nash, Bertuzzi, Orlov), Chevelydayoff (Stastny, Hayes, Monahan), Dubas (Foligno, O'Reilly), Drury (Copp, Tarasenko), etc.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

That is very very spicy.

I would love to see this happen. Mostly because I want an exciting deadline.

Vancouver can only do this if they get the value back they traded for him. Don't take 70% back.

 

[oceanchild]

Even if he’s not a failed prospect, I would hope you can agree that he’s not the level of nhl ready every insider on earth has said the penguins want in exchange for Guentzel. They want to get younger and have someone that can play meaningful minutes the rest of this season and next. They don’t want a maybe.

Now, before you get indignant and suggest that that’s too much to pay for Guentzel, “nhl ready” covers a pretty significant range. What is doesn’t cover is, “player who may be ready in the future, but so far has shown they aren’t ready now”

Well, this can be a long response but I will keep it short. He is ready to play every day and can do so now and that isn’t a maybe. Does he live up to what Pittsburg wants, I don’t know, but suspect he isn’t the ideal outcome for this trade. Does that mean he can’t be a part of a larger package, no. Do I even want to trade him, nope I do not and I have been consistent all season on that, feel free to look back. I would, for the right trade, but I prefer not to. I also was clear earlier that what we are hearing is they don’t want to include Hoglander, Lekkerimaki, Willander, or the 2025 first. I have also said the Canucks appear to not have the horses for this trade. To the poster having the tantrum no less in the other thread. To get response that I don’t know Rutherford and yes they would. Look, I don’t know what Pittsburg will get or what exactly they want. But, Pod is a solid prospect and will be an NHLer next year. We can debate his impact for sure, but some half wit that is doing nothing more than scanning stats and talking in absolutes, and has absolutely zero insight or impact on the outcome of the trade is going to get my insight as well in this player. You don’t want him, that’s fine. I didn’t say once that you have to take him or else. I was just trying to help him be a more informed fan. But, that’s not what he wants.

That is very very spicy.

I would love to see this happen. Mostly because I want an exciting deadline.

Vancouver can only do this if they get the value back they traded for him. Don't take 70% back.

We have been talking about this a bit on the Canucks board

 

[SEALBound]

My Dudes!, This years' Trade Deadline is going to be Elite!!!

 

[oceanchild]

That's not a "small technicality", that is a massive driver in player value.

I'm done responding to Canucks fans in here. They're not getting Guentzel and they're downright delusional about their players.



There is literally nothing to suggest Poulin is tracking to be a career AHLer while Podkolzin is tracking to be a surefire NHLer.

Love that you get to dictate who is delusional about player value. Who are you, what experience do you have in player evaluation that makes you an authority. Your cherry picking examples and your analysis is pure stat watching.

My Dudes!, This years' Trade Deadline is going to be Elite!!!

I could see this happening to make it work.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

neither of those scenarios are a guarantee. why are you so sure that his floor is a 15-20-goal 3rd liner?

In his rookie season he had 14 goals in very limited ice-time but more than that is he has a very good shot, and plays a relentless style and goes to the dirty areas.

 

[Some Other Flame]

If it's the Nucks, I'll guess 2025 1st, Podkolzin, Mikheyev, 2024 4th

 

[ikyan]

Perhaps Lindholm wanted too much in preliminary contact discussions.

 

[Ryder71]

If Pittsburgh was offered Hoglander, Dubas would be stupid not to take it. Hoglander is a very good player.

Right but we'll need a '25 1st also.

Hoglander, Raty, 1st probably gets it done. I could also see Hoglander, Raty, Podkolzin, 2025 2nd or something like that as well.

An interesting aspect to this discussion to is the "they don't want to resign him". Well...if Jake wants to stay in Pittsburgh...


If Edmonton wants Jake @50%, I would want Dubas to absolutely loot anything of value not bolted down in Edmonton.

Hoglander, a '25 1st and Raty would be ok.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

I also like how every Jake Guentzel trade thread gets overrun with Canucks fans doing their best used car salesmen impersonations and trying to convince Penguins fans that their crappy prosects are actually great.

I've been pushing Lekkerimakki over Podz if an extension was in place
Nobody is pushing Podz, we are responding to your assinine takes on a teams prospects.

 

[IcedCapp]

Well, this can be a long response but I will keep it short. He is ready to play every day and can do so now and that isn’t a maybe. Does he live up to what Pittsburg wants, I don’t know, but suspect he isn’t the ideal outcome for this trade. Does that mean he can’t be a part of a larger package, no. Do I even want to trade him, nope I do not and I have been consistent all season on that, feel free to look back. I would, for the right trade, but I prefer not to. I also was clear earlier that what we are hearing is they don’t want to include Hoglander, Lekkerimaki, Willander, or the 2025 first. I have also said the Canucks appear to not have the horses for this trade. To the poster having the tantrum no less in the other thread. To get response that I don’t know Rutherford and yes they would. Look, I don’t know what Pittsburg will get or what exactly they want. But, Pod is a solid prospect and will be an NHLer next year. We can debate his impact for sure, but some half wit that is doing nothing more than scanning stats and talking in absolutes, and has absolutely zero insight or impact on the outcome of the trade is going to bet my insight as well in this player. You don’t want him, that’s fine. I didn’t say once that you have to take him or else. I was just trying to help him be a more informed fan. But, that’s not what he wants.

I try to stay away from the trade board because it’s all kind of meaningless. None of us are in the office with these people and we have no clue what they want and what they’re willing to give up.

Plus, as both of you are getting at, every team values their assets more than anyone else’s.

In this specific instance, it’s a shame, because I feel like our two fan bases actually get along quite well when we’re not involved in a trade discussion.

That said, i think the Canucks have pieces the penguins would want, and I think Rutherford really wants Guentzel, but I don’t think those two things combine to mean he’ll bend over AND introduce us to his sister. Nor is dubas going to settle, because this is the first defining moment of his stint in Pit, and he has to get it right to have a remote chance of adding to this core’s legacy.

But, as I said, the discussions on this board are generally meaningless, and everyone needs to chill the f*** out. The last few deadlines have been boring as f***, everyone should be on team Dubas to make this one interesting.

 

[Canuck Luck]

That's not a "small technicality", that is a massive driver in player value.

I'm done responding to Canucks fans in here. They're not getting Guentzel and they're downright delusional about their players.



There is literally nothing to suggest Poulin is tracking to be a career AHLer while Podkolzin is tracking to be a surefire NHLer.

Poulin: 3 NHL GP, being passed over to play in the NHL by numerous players on a bottom 10 team this year.
Podkolzin: 40 NHL GP, brought back to the NHL on a top 3 NHL team.

Podkolzin has shown he can be an effective 3rd/4th liner already. Just like Hoglander had before he spent a year in the AHL. It's almost as if good teams can let young, waiver exempt players spend a year in the AHL so they can develop and gain confidence until they are no longer waiver exempt.