LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[SEALBound]

Pens may want a trade done by tomorrow evening but I’m not sure what leverage they have unless they plan to keep him. Is that an option? Seems like an empty threat.

Of course there’s the risk of him being traded elsewhere but that’s always a risk. The artificial Wednesday deadline doesn’t change that risk, at least not in my mind.

It’ll be an interesting few days though, looking forward to see what the first domino to fall is.

The leverage is the number of suiters he has. The "If you don't, someone else will" aspect is the leverage.

Bluffing for a lower price comes at the risk of not getting the piece you wanted. There's "we couldn't come to terms" and "We wait too long and they went elsewhere" and "We made our low offer but someone offered the XYZ" was of missing out.

If you're Vegas, for example, can you afford to play that game? I mean, the margin between offers may be slim for all we know. If it comes down to "well Vegas offered the 1st and we only offered the 2nd", I mean woof what bad deadline move. You'd want the debrief to be "Oh man, no way could we have matched that" or "They had be prospects than us". Which I imagine will be how the Edmonton debrief goes.

 

[High n Wide]

They have leverage in the trade, sure, but what I’m saying is I don’t see what leverage they have to impose this arbitrary deadline.

I understand the idea is that they’re hoping to up the bids in a “last call” sort of way, but they aren’t going to not trade Guentzel, so if nobody meets the price by tomorrow afternoon it’s not like the Pens are going to close up shop on trading him with the threat of just keeping him.

 

[KJoe88]

Would Detroit be a fit for you guys in the Burgh?

Berggren + 1st + ?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also like how every Jake Guentzel trade thread gets overrun with Canucks fans doing their best used car salesmen impersonations and trying to convince Penguins fans that their crappy prosects are actually great.

 

[SEALBound]

Shots on goal leader on AB by a good margin. Is he chucking low quality attempts at the net, getting a bit unlucky

If you're trying to sell someone on Podkolzin, this is not the chart you show them, lol.

This is like taking pictures of a major oil leak under an engine to show a potential buyer the treads on a tire.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Wait, are we actually completing trades here or just giving our own opinions? What a stupid comment to make on a fantasy trade board.

Bro, this isn’t NHL on Sony Play Station. The adults are talking about real life scenarios with real life people, and using real life history and past precedents to make educated assumptions on what to expect.
You are acting like this is fantasy hockey or a video game where we all get a say. Most of us are just trying to guess what will be done and why……..if you want to say you wouldn’t take the deal if it was you, fine. Just realize most of us are trying to guess what will happen, not just pretend we are the GM and tell everyone what we’d do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Would Detroit be a fit for you guys in the Burgh?

Berggren + 1st + ?

Berggren, Buium and a 1st was something I was thinking from Detroit, but I'm skeptical they'd go that aggressively after a rental like that.

 

[Ryder71]

Why tomorrow evening?

Don't wanna get stuck at the last minute, in addition we want to move other pieces out.

 

[IcedCapp]

I like how 99% of the time, when Dreger says something, this board rightfully says it’s meaningless, but when he says something as useless as “the penguins want this done by tomorrow night,” all of a sudden Dreger’s word is gold and we gotta make fun of dubas, because obviously if he doesn’t have anything good by tomorrow night he’s either gonna take a 5th or take his ball and go home.

Take a break, goobers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I hope Dubas is more shrewd at trading than he is at handing out those overpriced contracts in Toronto.

 

[KJoe88]

Berggren, Buium and a 1st was something I was thinking from Detroit, but I'm skeptical they'd go that aggressively after a rental like that.

Apparently Berggren was in tough negotiations for a new contract so idk.

Maybe this is something to happen if Vancouver or Vegas don’t work out.

 

[oceanchild]

Are you a used car salesman? You seem to be really trying to push Podkolzin as not being a nothing piece.

Again, he's a Sam Poulin caliber prospect. Very likely bottom-6 upside, maybe he can hit higher if it clicks, but he's far along in his development and has not shown to be NHL caliber yet. Considering he's also waiver eligible next year, his value is extremely low.

Podkolzin is in Derrick Pouliot territory starting next year if he doesn't show he's NHL ready.

He isn't in Derrick Pouliot territory, but you don’t really care, you don’t actually have any idea what your talking about, but that doesn’t really matter, you have no say in how this trade will go down, but that won’t stop you from thinking your optinion is relevant. The only thing that matters is you get to spout off and feel heard, but I’m done with you yet again.

I’m sure like last time when you whined about how unfair my response was to your question because it didn’t support your case (even though it was a direct response to the teams you listed as an example) you will just respond again without connecting it to me so I don’t see it. I want you to know that is fine.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Cool story bro. Doesn't change that Podkolzin sucks.

Raty is a good prospect, I'll give him that. But Podkolzin is in his draft+5 year and he's the 6th leading scorer on his AHL team. How does that have any sort of value?

Sam Poulin is a better looking prospect than Podkolzin at this time and most Penguins fans have written him off.

points aren't everything as you should know. There's a reason why even the Penguins are playing guys like Gruden in the NHL over Poulin.

Sure Poulin is a better AHL scorer than Podkolzin, that doesn't make him a better prospect. Brzustewicz is outscoring Danielsson even though Bruz is a D, don't think anyone thinks Brzustewicz is a better prospect than Danielsson. If there is anyone that does, they'd get laughed off

It just goes to show how out of touch you are when you say Raty is a good prospect but Podkolzin sucks. Raty. Podkolzin is a near guarantee to be a NHL player as a 3rd or 4th liner. Raty is a 50/50 toss up still if he can even be a 4th liner. Podkolzin's floor is Raty's upside while Podkolzin's upside of a complimentary top 6 winger is something Raty will never even be thought of to had unless you go back to when he was 16.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Fun fact, you can always ignore a thread.

i've been reading it and chuckling thanks.

it's actually kind of interesting in a hockey anthropological sense to watch a previously calm and measured fanbase like the pens start to beclown itself when faced with the adversity of its team no longer being immediately relevant. the temptation to try to bluff win imaginary hockey trade discussions on the interweb to compensate for your team no longer winning games on the ice seems to be almost universal. i hope pens pull off their retool so you guys don't make a habit of this kind of thread. nobody wants to hear your disingenuous salty opinons of other teams' players, or your tire pumping takes on your own assets. we can read bruins trade threads for that and it's more entertaining to read their bluster posts with an imagined southie accent.

so good luck with the guentzel thing. you guys have less room to retool than you think so i hope it works out better than moving kesler did for us.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

They have leverage in the trade, sure, but what I’m saying is I don’t see what leverage they have to impose this arbitrary deadline.

I understand the idea is that they’re hoping to up the bids in a “last call” sort of way, but they aren’t going to not trade Guentzel, so if nobody meets the price by tomorrow afternoon it’s not like the Pens are going to close up shop on trading him with the threat of just keeping him.

Some of this I wonder is if the teams in on Guentzel want to know who wins as well. So they can look for option 2 or 3.

Similar to UFAs in some summers. The biggest Turkey (Guentzel) holds up who gets the other turkeys.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He isn't in Derrick Pouliot territory, but you don’t really care, you don’t actually have any idea what your talking about, but that doesn’t really matter, you have no say in how this trade will go down, but that won’t stop you from thinking your optinion is relevant. The only thing that matters is you get to spout off and feel heard, but I’m done with you yet again.

I’m sure like last time when you whined about how unfair my response was to your question because it didn’t support your case (even though it was a direct response to the teams you listed as an example) you will just respond again without connecting it to me so I don’t see it. I want you to know that is fine.

If he doesn't show he's NHL ready to start next year, that means he'd require waivers. That literally puts him exactly on the Derrick Pouliot level.

We've seen this countless times with former top-10 picks. If you're a prospect who's hitting waiver eligibility when you haven't shown you can cut it at the NHL, your value is essentially zero. It's the same exact thing that happened with Juolevi with the Canucks too.

 

[Ryder71]

Edmonton just waived Gagner so they might be in.

Vancouver, Vegas, Carolina, Edmonton seem to be the teams involved.

FLA, LA and NSH also. Plenty of suitors.

 

[oceanchild]

The leverage is the number of suiters he has. The "If you don't, someone else will" aspect is the leverage.

Bluffing for a lower price comes at the risk of not getting the piece you wanted. There's "we couldn't come to terms" and "We wait too long and they went elsewhere" and "We made our low offer but someone offered the XYZ" was of missing out.

If you're Vegas, for example, can you afford to play that game? I mean, the margin between offers may be slim for all we know. If it comes down to "well Vegas offered the 1st and we only offered the 2nd", I mean woof what bad deadline move. You'd want the debrief to be "Oh man, no way could we have matched that" or "They had be prospects than us". Which I imagine will be how the Edmonton debrief goes.

Setting a deadline is ideal to all bidders as well, this is the time that bids are due and this is what I want and where things are. I don’t know why some people think dragging this out helps value. It’s different if you have the lead player in the market or a secondary one, Jake is clearly the best forward and the apple of a few eyes and that allows Pittsburg to set the market on timing.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

If a team does overpay my money is on Edmonton

Edmonton has nothing to overpay with.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

If you're trying to sell someone on Podkolzin, this is not the chart you show them, lol.

This is like taking pictures of a major oil leak under an engine to show a potential buyer the treads on a tire.

I’m not a canux fan or trying to sell him, I’m asking why his shots on goal are so high

 

[Empoleon8771]

points aren't everything as you should know. There's a reason why even the Penguins are playing guys like Gruden in the NHL over Poulin.

Sure Poulin is a better AHL scorer than Podkolzin, that doesn't make him a better prospect. Brzustewicz is outscoring Danielsson even though Bruz is a D, don't think anyone thinks Brzustewicz is a better prospect than Danielsson. If there is anyone that does, they'd get laughed off

Poulin projects as a 2-way center if he ever cuts it at the NHL.

And yes, I don't think Poulin is all that good. Nor do I think Podkolzin is all that good. As soon as their waiver exemption runs out, they immediately have no value anymore.

Again, Podkolzin is a guy in his draft+5 year that isn't dominating by any measure in the AHL and turns 23 in the off-season. How does that guy have any sort of value?

It's Derrick Pouliot all over again. Pouliot was in the same exact position with the Penguins, where he wasn't able to cut it in the NHL and his AHL performance was nothing to write home about. Then when his waiver exemption ran out, he was traded for a 4th.

 

[timw33]

There's no way [my favourite team] gives up [good players or prospects], but what about [list of mediocre to bad players]?

 

[Ryder71]

I don't trade Hoglander if I'm the Canucks. He's too valuable of a piece on great terms.

2025 1st
Podkolzin
Raty

Is tops I'd do, and I'd be hesitant to do the trade as I do believe Raty and Podkolzin are going to be good NHL'ers

Hard pass, you're giving us low end prospects, no. HOGS and a '25 1st at a minimum. We don't want the quantity more than the quality.

 

[IcedCapp]

He isn't in Derrick Pouliot territory, but you don’t really care, you don’t actually have any idea what your talking about, but that doesn’t really matter, you have no say in how this trade will go down, but that won’t stop you from thinking your optinion is relevant. The only thing that matters is you get to spout off and feel heard, but I’m done with you yet again.

I’m sure like last time when you whined about how unfair my response was to your question because it didn’t support your case (even though it was a direct response to the teams you listed as an example) you will just respond again without connecting it to me so I don’t see it. I want you to know that is fine.

Even if he’s not a failed prospect, I would hope you can agree that he’s not the level of nhl ready every insider on earth has said the penguins want in exchange for Guentzel. They want to get younger and have someone that can play meaningful minutes the rest of this season and next. They don’t want a maybe.

Now, before you get indignant and suggest that that’s too much to pay for Guentzel, “nhl ready” covers a pretty significant range. What is doesn’t cover is, “player who may be ready in the future, but so far has shown they aren’t ready now”

 

[thefutures]

I also like how every Jake Guentzel trade thread gets overrun with Canucks fans doing their best used car salesmen impersonations and trying to convince Penguins fans that their crappy prosects are actually great.

Lol don't cry after people correct your tantrum takes