Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Trade Winds Coming Early

[Grip it N RYP it]

Chytil could get an upper-body injury tripping on a pebble, or get concussed answering his phone.

 

[Peen]

VAN has way more leverage in a Miller discussion than they did when he was a rental UFA.

He hadn't shown what he had under Tocchet. At the time, he was a 1LW who wasn't defensively interested enough to be a C on a winning team.

He then turned into a guy you could pretty confidently deploy against Connor McDavid in the playoffs.

He's also signed to a pretty fair contract. There just aren't many 100 point Cs active in the NHL.

And NYR killed themselves a few weeks ago w any leverage after Drury's thing got leaked.

Maybe there's more that's going on behind the scenes. That's what my gut is telling me because all these trade discussions were not instant nos from the media guys... definitely felt like a door being left open if VAN felt they had their socks blown off + Miller has trade protection which if he didn't rly want to move, that would have been 100% shut down from that end as well. But regardless I don't really care to speculate on this one. Think this is my first post since the news came out that's longer.

We'll know when we know.

 

[Josepho]

Unless a younger and established two-way center is a part of the deal, you do not move Miller.

Maybe we can pull off something like the Huberdeau deal.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Unless Miller specifically asks for a trade or it is confirmed he is a locker room cancer and the players want him gone, I will permanently stop watching the Canucks and go out of my way to convince others not to watch this joke of a franchise if they trade Miller. You’re not a serious organization if you do this. There is absolutely zero reason to trade him right now and doing something like that means this franchise will never get serious about winning a damn thing.

I’m very confident everything I said above won’t and will not happen and Miller will come back stronger than before and be a damn leader like he is.

 

[Jerry the great]

Absent am outright trade demand, the idea we would or should move JT is mental.

If there is (unresolvable) friction between him and another player.....see you later other player (unless it's Quinn Hughes).

If it's between him and the coach, work through it.

If he's just become an intolerable grump because he's hurt and can't perform the way he's used to performing.....let him heal.

 

[wonton15]

I refuse to believe all this Miller noise. Like at all.

 

[bossram]

2.52x1.19=2.999… don’t be so pedantic.

Mistake? Depends on which team. For a bunch of teams that are lacking talent and is limited in what they can get, overpaying slightly for a guy like Hog is fine. When the cap is at 97M next year, overpaying a guy like by 500k on a 3M contract doesn’t make a difference. The difference is not having 1 more guy that moves the team forward and the opportunity cost.

Good god man.

The $2.38M figure was the amount already "adjusted for cap inflation". Now you're saying it's 2.52 for some reason, and adding more cap inflation on top of it.

And you've just told the game right here. You said it yourself. "Slight overpayment". i.e. the Hoglander extension is an overpayment. If it's an overpayment, that mean's the extension itself is a net negative on his trade value.

Thank you for supporting my point.

 

[brock hughes007]

Would people now do Filip Chytil, Braden Schneider and a 1st for Miller?

No .unless Miller is actually wanting out we are not moving him.

 

[bossram]

Jc did you read any of the multiple posts by multiple people on why he might have value?!

The point is the narrative that he has not much value (wwaivers) should be dead based on what we now know to be accurate information.
That's it.

By whomever was making such statements, idc who made what claims, that narrative is dead. tI dont need to prove anything. To disprove a narrative that is very easy to see with all the teams scouting and having interest in Hoglander.
It is reality idk what you're arguing.

No "previous comparables" are necessary or required by me or you or anyone to prove anything because we're specifically talking about Hoglander and if he's waiver tier"not much" value or not.

Again the number doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if anyone thinks his contract is a negative, we know it's not because multiple teams are interested and atleast willing to talk top4D in return, we don't know what or who adds plusses yet.


That's it.
Hoglander has more than not much value, his contract is not a negative and he would never have cleared waivers. Those narratives are dead, Those opinions are incorrect and ppl who hold them should reevaluate their positions.


It's like anyone who was hypothetically arguing boeser value was not much or would clear waivers (again both of which happened and both can easilybe found with a search, not saying you) because struggling or contract or whatever, they were incorrect. It was an opinion we know now to be incorrect based on available information.
We don't need skilled winger comparables to boeser from before, or math, or logic or anything else. That narrative was not correct and those people should've re-evaluated their opinions because they turned out to be incorrect.

We also now know the narrative Hoglander is low value or bad contract to be incorrect, because we will soon see him traded for value. How much exactly we don't know yet, I say decent to good value, others say we have to add a 1st to get provorov.
We will also soon see which one is correct.

That's it.
Hoglander has more than not much value, his contract is not a negative and he would never have cleared waivers. Those narratives are dead, those opinions are incorrect.

All you keep repeating is that "he would not clear waivers". As I've said repeatedly, yes, I agree. I think he would be claimed if waived.

That's not the question. The question is, "what is his trade value". You claimed his trade value is in the vicinity of a 1st round pick. Yet, you have provided no similar transactions where a similar player returned that amount in a trade.

No, you don't have to provide any previous comparables. But the fact that you can't is an obvious tell that your argument is extremely weak.

And once again, you bring up the Boeser examples unprompted. Based on trades of similar players (1st line scoring pace wingers), it would have been easy to conclude he held some significant degree of trade value (look at the Reinhart, Buchnevich, Fiala trades etc.). Yeah, obviously he did not have negative value. But we can find some analogous examples to lend evidence toward that. You have repeatedly shown you cannot provide any examples to support your argument about Hoglander.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

I could envision a scenario where the Blue Jackets are willing to pay a big price to bring in a star forward after what happened with Gaudreau. Miller might be a rare star player that would actually wnat to be there given his family connection to the state. It's hard to see how this would benefit Vancouver in the short term but if CBJ is desperate I bet they could put together a pretty nice package.

 

[supercanuck]

I don't think JT hits 100 points ever again, but there are still not many players I would consider trading for him 1 for 1 in our win now situation. From the Rangers it's pretty much Adam Fox and that's definitely not happening.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I could envision a scenario where the Blue Jackets are willing to pay a big price to bring in a star forward after what happened with Gaudreau. Miller might be a rare star player that would actually wnat to be there given his family connection to the state. It's hard to see how this would benefit Vancouver in the short term but if CBJ is desperate I bet they could put together a pretty nice package.

Bring KJ home.

His contract is a steal for the next couple years.

 

[arttk]

Good god man.

The $2.38M figure was the amount already "adjusted for cap inflation". Now you're saying it's 2.52 for some reason, and adding more cap inflation on top of it.

And you've just told the game right here. You said it yourself. "Slight overpayment". i.e. the Hoglander extension is an overpayment. If it's an overpayment, that mean's the extension itself is a net negative on his trade value.

Thank you for supporting my point.

wtf you can’t read? I said yes you are right, 3M!=2M its 2.52M after adjusting.

I think you are way over indexing on the concept of overpayment. Overpayment is not like an issue for teams that are lacking in talent. For them they would rather trade for a player that could be slightly overpaid than to have no player at all and be stuck at the same spot. Not moving the team forward is more damaging than paying a guy like 500k more.

Also we are getting the calls right now for Hog, it’s the other teams that wants him and we are not desperate to sell him at this moment and we have seen how patient Allvin is when it comes to selling.

 

[credulous]

if miller is traded it won't be a "hockey" trade where the team is trying to move strength from one position to another. it'll be because whatever is going on with him necessitates a move and they have only bad choices the least bad of which is to trade him

 

[theguardianII]

This is the day the Canucks said Miller is coming back.
Anymore Hronek news?

December 6th, Swift's concert. Canucks play.
Parking and traffic will be so much fun.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Absent am outright trade demand, the idea we would or should move JT is mental.

If there is (unresolvable) friction between him and another player.....see you later other player (unless it's Quinn Hughes).

If it's between him and the coach, work through it.

If he's just become an intolerable grump because he's hurt and can't perform the way he's used to performing.....let him heal.

I think a savvy GM should be willing to trade every player and prospect if someone offers the moon. But that isn’t happening. And if that “other player” happened to be EP, I don’t think EP would be the one going.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

This is the day the Canucks said Miller is coming back.
Anymore Hronek news?

December 6th, Swift's concert. Canucks play.
Parking and traffic will be so much fun.

Minor point, but the Canucks have said absolutely nothing about a possible timeframe for Miller's return. All there has been is speculation.

 

[valkynax]

This is the day the Canucks said Miller is coming back.
Anymore Hronek news?

December 6th, Swift's concert. Canucks play.
Parking and traffic will be so much fun.

I make it my business to stay out of downtown, period.

When I dated my wife, who happens to be a HUGE downtown lover, I told her honey downtown is my most hated place on the planet and I'd rather see it turn into a smoking crater, but I am still driving you there every week because my love for you triumphs over my burning hatred for that SHITHOLE.

Before I met her, the 20 something years I lived in Canada, I've been to downtown voluntarily maybe a total of 3 times.

 

[arttk]

Minor point, but the Canucks have said absolutely nothing about a possible timeframe for Miller's return. All there has been is speculation.

Yeah he’s not with the team on the road…

 

[LemonSauceD]

This is the day the Canucks said Miller is coming back.
Anymore Hronek news?

December 6th, Swift's concert. Canucks play.
Parking and traffic will be so much fun.

With TSwift, Canucks, and shit downtown will reach 2010 Olympics level of capacity. Her last stop of her tour, there’s thousands coming in to gather.

 

[bossram]

wtf you can’t read? I said yes you are right, 3M!=2M its 2.52M after adjusting.

I think you are way over indexing on the concept of overpayment. Overpayment is not like an issue for teams that are lacking in talent. For them they would rather trade for a player that could be slightly overpaid than to have no player at all and be stuck at the same spot. Not moving the team forward is more damaging than paying a guy like 500k more.

Also we are getting the calls right now for Hog, it’s the other teams that wants him and we are not desperate to sell him at this moment and we have seen how patient Allvin is when it comes to selling.

No. It's $2.39M. Which is what I said. You've pulled $2.52 out of nowhere for some reason.

Some team may still turn around and offer something decent for him. But what I'm arguing, and what you've conceded, is that the contract extension is a negative weighing his value down.

Also, the rumours of the teams calling on him are from three GMs, reportedly. Two of which I rate pretty poorly as GMs.

Vector's argument once again is the most persuasive: Some GMs are just irrational. Whatever you and VanillaCoke are trying to argue has way less evidence behind it.

 

[Jerry the great]

I think a savvy GM should be willing to trade every player and prospect if someone offers the moon. But that isn’t happening. And if that “other player” happened to be EP, I don’t think EP would be the one going.

I don't see EP leading this team to a cup. If i squint hard enough, I can get there with JT. I believe if both are playing at their best, we have a shot (assuming we have a healthy team) and this is still my preferred route unless Staios loses his mind and Brady hits market.

If one has to go, we probably get back closer to FMV (or better) for Pettersson. Lack of trade restrictions, age and the rising cap environment play a role.

 

[ManVanFan]

Unless a younger and established two-way center is a part of the deal, you do not move Miller.

Maybe we can pull off something like the Huberdeau deal.

You want the Canucks to go into a rebuild and the Rangers to go onto the Stanley cup?

 

[ManVanFan]

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Jack Eichel 2023 3rd round pick

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Alex Tuch Peyton Krebs 2022 1st round pick 2023 2nd round pick

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Ryan O`Reilly

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Vladimir Sobotka Patrik Berglund Tage Thompson 2019 1st round pick 2021 2nd round pick

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Matthew Tkachuk 2025 conditional 4th round pick

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Jonathan Huberdeau MacKenzie Weegar Cole Schwindt 2025 conditional 1st round pick

If trading Miller, I'd expect returns somewhere in this range.

Tuch was a 40 point player when traded. Thompson was nothing.

All three of those teams trading for the star player after making those trades won a Stanley cup soon after.

 

[Horvat1C]

Miller for Barzal