There aren’t enough good players to pay. I am guessing there are like 10-15 teams that don’t have more than like 1 guy that is worth 10+ and players that earn that much won’t hit the market.
Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Trade Winds Coming Early
- Thread starter Vector
- Start date
Actually more like 20% considering it’s going up from 88?>97>105.
So I guess 3M is like the 2.5M. I really don’t see how that is like a bad deal. I mean it Hog doesn’t recover at all then yes but if he gets back to pole 20G ES scorer then that’s a good contract. If you look at teams that are interested like the pens, who the hell do they need to pay? It’s not like they have like a young guy coming up that will demand 10+. They actually probably want to bet on guys like that and see if he’s a fit with Sid (probably will because Sid is still a god) and the 3M will be really good value.
Not true. I mean, this is just middling forwards... What expansion has done to the defensemen demand and compensation is silly.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Suter has always run a little hot and cold, hence why he was available on the market when he was for the dollar amount he was. If he’s able to extend this current heater, great, but at the moment, it just feels like a hot streak (which we are definitely benefitting from and is in no way a bad thing).
If it ends up being something more, that’s great news. But too early to talk about an extension / raise yet.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
According to Elliot
PIT/CBJ/WSH are interested in Hog and they LIKE that he has terms
It would be hilarious if Pens traded McGroaty
PIT/CBJ/WSH are interested in Hog and they LIKE that he has terms
It would be hilarious if Pens traded McGroaty
doubtful. it was said the Pens were trying to offer Marcus Pettersson for him.
VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
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Again if one is trying to compare Hoglander with Sprong and Garland idk what to tell you, it's a stupid basis other than small and skilled.
Everything else is completely different.
I didn't say a first, clearly. I said equivalent value to a late first, as in not adding another first to return Provorov or some mid ufa rental.
Anyone who thinks his contract is a negative is not correct, objectively, and should simply adjust their opinion, and thus possibly ones opinion of Hogs value..
The current financial NHL climate is not the same as 2019, and only growing, cap going up. Clearly actual NHL teams/execs are interested in Hoglander with his contract, he is young fast and proven nhl calibre. Insiders are relaying the RELATIVELY low aav cost certainty is a positive, that's the facts of reality.
Whether you or others like(d) the extension or not is irrelevant, its signed and in real life has not affected his value negatively.
See below:
Like take this and expand on it, as much as one can and factor in all hogs plus qualities and age etc etc and you should conclude hog has decent value to atleast a percentage of teams.
Never been garbage or "not much" value and never would've cleared waivers, that's my point and the narrative that should be dead now.
We'll see his value soon enough and it's not going to be Tomasino/Sprong tier, full stop, that opinion is not and will not be correct.
I don't think he's going to return Sillinger either for what it's worth but I wouldn't complain or be shocked if we'd added something else cbj likes ..?
I outlined in more detail in my other reply to you. I'm not making a statement on how Dubas' values Hoglander in particularly.
But I'm pointing out that your theory and calculations of how to operate in the cap-inflationary environment are simply wrong. Again, if the cap is $105M in two years, that's a 19% increase. A $2M player would be worth $2.38M then. Again, your math is wrong and you're over $600K off from your original "estimate".
Like I've been saying, most people (including you) are not going to be able to internalize that the cap going up shouldn't actually lead to big raises for bottom-of-the-roster players.
Also, Hog's 24 goal season was on the back of 20+% shooting. Unless you believe he is one of the league's preeminent snipers, it's not really logical to conclude he's a legit 20+ goal scorer right now.
Last edited:
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
We're trying to tell you that you're wrong, pretty much. You want to ignore the relevant comparable examples people have provided because they are direct evidence against your narrative, but can't provide any actual transactions that support your narrative.
I'll point you to my post below about how contracts should be valued in the cap-inflating environment. The absolute value increases for bottom-six players are not that much.
As Vector pointed out, the only GMs interested in Hoglander, based on the "insider information", are GMs we know to not exactly be top-notch. This lends more credence Vector's theory (which I agree with), that Hoglander will only be valued highly in a trade because one irrational GM does something bizarre. Not because "the league" values him highly.
Ernie
Registered User
- Aug 3, 2004
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Except he wasn't sheltered last year and and across the board had very solid possession numbers. He may take some dumb penalties but he draws more than he takes.
This is a player who playing poorly right now and makes some obvious mistakes even when he's on this game, but is overall very much a net positive player.
Unlike Sprong, he is a hard worker, has a good personality, brings a physical edge, and has proven to be coachable.
Chances are very high that the Canucks will lose the trade if they trade him away for less than the value he brings. It would be dumb to trade him right now when he's struggling but that's probably why teams are calling, because they're hoping the Canucks do something dumb.
Hansen
tyler motte simp
And Jim Benning was giving the same money to guys like Jay Beagle half a decade ago. So then why don't you conclude that the cap expansion hasn't actually led to that much inflation of the "middling" tier of UFA forwards? Allvin just signed a bunch of middling forwards (Blueger, Suter, Heinen, Sherwood) to pretty cheap contracts.
If a GM is operating under the principle that a rapidly rising cap means he should be giving massive raises to bottom-half-of-the-roster players, he is simply wrong and dumb.
Why is Washington trading Fehervary?
I wouldn't mind say moving on from Heinen next summer to be able to re sign Suter.
Suter has anayltically improved every line he's been on. That and his all around utility is very valuable. Being able to play wing, center, top 6, bottom 6, 4th line, PK, PP, OT, you can literally play him anywhere at any time.
I personally think we should re sign him.
Diversification
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
- 3,262
- 4,152
Not opposed to dealing Heinen, but I think we can (and probably should) move on from Suter since his next contract won't have the same surplus value. This is a situation where you let management earn their money and identify the next undervalued asset.
Hansen
tyler motte simp
I think your gut might be wrong there.
Washington is off to a great start. Fehervary is on a very affordable deal this season and next. He's playing 20 minutes a night and is their primary PKer.
I don't see them trading him this season.
Turin
Erik Karlsson is good
- Feb 27, 2018
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It would be hilarious if the Canucks traded Lekkerimaki for fun I too I guess
Chairman Maouth
Retired Staff
This guy is cold as ice. If he grew up in an Italian neighbourhood he might have grown up to be a mafia hitman.
VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
- 26,424
- 13,132
I don't have a narrative, I have the facts of reality as we currently know them, and they should kill the Hog is "not much" value waiver trash narrative some posters have been saying repeatedly.
Nobody has listed "relevant comparables" yet, Sprong and Garland are old vets and paid 5x more or have character reputations.
Why not use Caufield or Tolvanen, they're both small skilled wingers ,closer in age and goals etc...
The point is it doesn't matter, we know there's interest in hog from multiple teams, with his contract and that's just the ones we know of, so clearly Hoglander has value, in real life, and that it's very likely to be more than "not much" or "Sprong/Tomasino".
So that narrative should die.
These are facts from EF, supported by multiple rumors and tweets about scouts etc.
Teams want the player, with his contract, because of his proven nhl quality skills and potential.
It doesn't matter what someone thought about his contract, what your particular logic says, or what your fan math says the equivalent value is, those are opinions. And they should be changed because we know in reality teams/gms (atleast a percentage) do not care/agree. In real life they don't care about 600k differences, or that the scrap heap contains 1.5m versions. They value Hoglander specifically, and some because or the contract extension.
So clearly he has value and arguments that he would clear waivers or his contract tanked his value, or we should trade asap for whatever and sell sell sell! Are not correct arguments, we know this in reality from all the available information we have on Hoglander specifically and currently.
We need only wait and see if it's Hoglander for Marcus Pettersson straight up, or who/what the plusses are and on which side. But we're not adding a first to hog get an old ufa rental Pettersson/provorov/etc..
So the narrative that hog was worthless junk ever or because of his contract needs to go away, we will soon find out just how much value he has, myself and others think and have posted it's definitely more than not much, to possibly a decent amount, for the multitude of reasons provided.
Fine my original estimate is off, 3M is worth 2.52 M with the cap.
Actually with the cap rising, salaries are going to get pushed up except for the ones earning min wage. There isn’t enough high value talent for team to spend on. We have Marner and Ratanen that’s worth 10+M in UFA and that’s pretty much it. There is enough of an increase where the top teams will get their guys and then a bunch of trying to improve their roster team is going to overpay for guys because there aren’t enough to go around.
With 32 teams, there is just not enough talent and cap going ip will mean there will be more competition for guys.
Hansen
tyler motte simp
My gut is wrong most often, thats why I keep tums on my nightstand
Peter Griffin
Registered User
Hoglander
- Teams call all the time on certain players and that doesn’t necessarily mean that player is available
- Good level of interest from other teams but nothing has reached the “front burner category”
- This management is not afraid to make a trade early if something makes sense
- Didn’t get the sense that anything was close earlier today
- Sees the appetite, around the league, for adding depth on the back-end
- 15 teams are within 6 points of each other
- Going to see a specialist in the near future
- Until he sees a specialist then no one will know what is the best approach
- Week-to-week
- If the feeling is surgery is the only thing that will rectify the situation, increasingly players want to get the surgery done immediately
- Doesn’t know if the Canucks feel a higher level of urgency
- Does not get the sense that the Canucks are trading high level picks and prospects to facilitate a need
- Was told that Drury called the Canucks and asked about the potential availability of Miller
- According to his sources, Canucks don’t have any interest in trading Miller
- Drury is in upheaval with the Rangers
- Rangers dressing room is upside down
- Drury didn’t think that the Kreider and Trouba news would get out
- Every playoff team would have interest in JT Miller
- Believes the Canucks and Miller’s representatives have done a good job of dispelling any rumours that there’s more going on
- The explanation for his absence was a very honest one
- Hope and expectation is that he’s back in the line-up sooner rather than later
- Thinks the Canucks are doing right for JT Miller from the human perspective as well as professional
- Thinks the Canucks interest in Jiricek was limited
- Doesn’t know if the Canucks actually made an offer
- There was speculation that other players between the Wild and Blue Jackets were potentially involved
- Curious that Jiricek “didn’t fit the eye of Don Waddell”
Hansen
tyler motte simp
Damn the virus has spread from Minnesota to Pittsburgh fans
Obligatory if Lekkerimaki is traded itd be for Joel Eriksson Ek and a 1st but I dont really think Eriksson Ek is good enough to warrant the trade
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