Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Trade Winds Coming Early
- Thread starter Vector
- Start date
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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Including playoffs, Hoglander has scored 51 ES goals in 255 NHL games, an average of exactly 1 per 5. That's not bad at all. He has his defensive lapses, we all know that, but he's reasonably effective at keeping the play slanted in the right direction and he has some goal scoring touch.
I don't think you watch much hockey. Willy is going to fill a top four position for years on this team. He is twice the skater that Jiricek is and will jump out of the gate once he arrives here. Hronek is the next euro purged? Once again, what in the hell are you talking about? You don't make a team better by subtracting your top players.
VanillaCoke
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- Oct 30, 2013
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I didn't say you did but there's many many posts on how trash Hogs value is including some about waivers, which was always ridiculous.
I'm not going back years to brock and Garland rn..
The Garland comparison is not instructive, it's irrelevant for many reasons clearly, they're vastly different situations aside from both being small & skilled.
I think this is part of the problem, you and others seem to think this extension is a (big) negative.
It is not, in todays nhl climate three million isn't much, and less every year. Organizations value cost certainty to young players with proven nhl skills to atleast some degree.
There's tons of older junk in the league making ~3M, kampf, jarnkrok, connor brown, etc etc.
Maybe hog doesn't get three mil after this year, maybe he does, we don't know. Maybe he gets 3x2.5M, close enough.
Only takes one gm to give him domi or trenin contract (not directly comparing players).
Point being Hoglander is and always has been valuable, a relatively small struggle this year doesn't change anything, he will return a valuable asset, atleast late first equivalent imo, we'll see who's right in a few weeks.
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theguardianII
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- Jan 30, 2020
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So I guess that makes Pettersson a trade asset then. Or one of the other RHD prospects.
Pick out the one's that are tradable.
- Aug 28, 2011
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You have three choices:
1) Draft your complementary pieces and wait a few years for them to potentially break into the lineup.
2) Target a guy who has upside while paying futures. Sometimes they work (Hagel) and sometimes they bust (Jeannot).
3) Overpay for older guys in UFA (Palat, Killorn).
You can see why option 2 is the most sensible option for teams that are looking for immediate improvements. 3 mil x 3 years is not the worst risk for another team to take.
The contract just looks bad for us because of the amount of dead cap next year.
theguardianII
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- Jan 30, 2020
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Hoglander plays like he is afraid to make a mistake.
Any error of his results in benching and being slayed by the coach and team supporting media helping grease the skids for his way out.
IMO once out of this doghouse on another team he will excel as a tenacious forecheker and score a few goals as well.
Any error of his results in benching and being slayed by the coach and team supporting media helping grease the skids for his way out.
IMO once out of this doghouse on another team he will excel as a tenacious forecheker and score a few goals as well.
there's probably a lot of budget stuff behind the scenes that compounds GM concerns beyond simple cap management. GMs are terrified of their young players having a career contract year.
Doesn’t surprise me at all that this crop of GMs see positive value in Hoglander having extension and cost certainty, and that Allvin recognized this as well. Young tenacious forward with solid even strength scoring potential locked up at a reasonable cap hit with a rising cap. This is all you need to know about GMs and how they think. It’s not always 100% logical.
I mean, if you're not going back to discuss Brock/Garland, why did you bring up Boeser? You're using them as examples of people being "wrong" on stuff, and you are replying directly to me, thus implying I was wrong on them. I am simply rebutting you, that my opinions on those players were proven correct.
The Garland comparison is instructive. Smallish, (perceived) middle-six offense-only wingers don't hold much value. Look what just happened to Sprong. Look at what just happened with Tomasino. We see this time and again.
I do think the extension is a net negative to his value. For what Hoglander is (perceived) to bring, GMs can find that on the scrap heap every offseason for $1M. $3M is overkill.
Yeah, there are a lot of bad contracts in the NHL. They are bad. Everyone knows they are bad. What do disimilar players on bad contracts have to do with Hoglander? The guys you mentioned have no trade value and everyone knows it.
There's no world where Hoglander is returning a 1st. I see his value as closer to the Tomasino deal (but not as low).
The most persuasive argument about Hoglander returning something decent is from @Vector: some GMs just aren't rational or smart.
To further my point; the three GMs we are talking about is 1) the original GM of the Thrashers that left the Hurricanes because he wasn't allowed to make actual decision 2) A wunderkind who's done perplexing after perplexing move for the Penguins and viewed Michael Bunting as positive value and 3) the living embodiment of hockey nepotism (although his limited track record this off-season has yielded great results so far).
Peter Griffin
Registered User
3M in a flat cap world is bad.
3M in a rising cap world where the cap will be 97M next season and 100+ the year after is nothing.
No joke. I paused and checked the roster to make sure he wasn't getting him confused with Owen Sillinger, who's also in the organization.
sandwichbird2023
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- Aug 4, 2004
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He also struggled mightily in the playoff last season (although it is his first taste of playoff) and was fading down the stretch last season (but maybe you can excuse it for being dragged down by Petey). However you explain it, he has been struggling for awhile now and it isn't a small sample size anymore.
I don't think he has no value, NHL GMs are always looking for goals and a young player that can score 20+ with no PP time will always be worth a gamble. However, I don't think he carries a lot of value, he might return a depth player, mid range pick, be part of a bigger deal, or a combo of the above, but I really don't think he is worth "at least a late first equivalent", but I'll be happy to be wrong.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
I love Hog but I will fly him to Columbus myself eventhough I have no license and no ideas how to fly a plane
Love Waddell is basically getting rid off all the players and prospects from previous regime
EP2 is a LHD. Pettersson and Willander have nothing to do with getting in each other's developmental way.
It's great when you have cheap term but I do not understand how a $3 million contract is an asset for an underperforming player who has never been more than a 10-12 minute guy his whole career.
If Hoglander was a UFA at the end of the season he isn't getting more than $2 million even with a decent bump in production the rest of the way to finish with 30 points or so.
Any new GM in any sport will look objectively at prospects. No personal attachment. Benning was tied to Virtanen til his legal issues. Another GM probably cuts bait earlier.
But, I'd be shocked to see CBJ move Sillinger out. Big C for a skilled non 1st line winger? Not the value he should be looking for.
