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[Reverend Mayhem]

I honestly wish they'd just shut the whole thing down at this point. This circus is about the worst thing that could happen to this franchise after last year.

Honestly, with the way the franchise has been conducted this year, I'd argue that the cirque du soleil groundcrew missed hanging the tent by roughly 400 feet.

 

[arttk]

the question i have is why the canuck negotiations with the canes were so widely leaked and the avs negotiations silent.

Probably leaked by the other side. It would be funny if a trade happens and it’s with a partner that has not leaked at all.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Unpopular opinion, but...

We should be prepared for Hughes to want to test the market in a few years, and they'll likely trade him for a massive haul to kickstart the rebuild. His agent is JP Barry is who is notorious for contract holdouts, and we know there is always the Jack/Luke factor playing into things. Doubly so if the team dynamic is still not great once one or both of the Gruesome Twosome are moved out. Hughes is still good value even at a max term/cap deal, but that essentially means you have to have zero margin for error in constructing the rest of the roster, and we've seen how that's gone in the last decade plus.

IMO if you're blowing up the core, you might as well get it over with and move him in the offseason while he still has a few years left being cost-controlled. He is worth an absolute King's Ransom, and as much as it would hurt trading a generational talent in the middle of his prime, they did such a terrible job of building the team around him that losing him for nothing sounds like a much, much worse option. The mistake was always building around their forwards instead of recognizing what they had in Hughes, and doing their absolute best to tailor the system and personnel to his game.

Bottom out for a few years during the McKenna/Dupont drafts, and try to start over fresh with a genuine rebuild. The Canucks have been avoiding a rebuild since Gillis left. You cannot generally retool your way to a Stanley Cup, that is something that desperate GMs and Presidents do so they can remain employed. Very savvy managers can pull it off, but we're talking maybe four or five in the entire league. No owner wants to accept a rebuild, but IMO you can't actually compete without going through the process properly. Cutting corners has always burned this franchise.

I think this gets overblown a bit. Of coarse if they are near the bottom of the league with no hope in sight they’ll likely have to trade him. But then, they should trade him as keeping him to prop up a bad team is silly anyways.

But him leaving for a contender is harder than it sounds. Most contenders are contenders because they have a strong core already and a cap structure is in place. Adding a top 5 salary is not easy and would likely mean blowing up the core (that is already successful). Vegas did this but they were in a pretty unique situation. They didn’t have a core, they just had a bunch of cast offs that came together within a system. That’s not really normal.

If he were to leave it would likely be to a team that is up and coming. That’s where there may be a hole in the core and cap space. Think Taveras and TO…and honestly, that didn’t work out as well as I think both envisioned.

I don’t see NJ as all that likely. Maybe a team like Seattle/Anaheim/Chicago? But as long as Vancouver is heading in the right direction, I think they will have the best chance to resign him. He will already fit in the cap structure, he’s the captain, it’s the team that drafted him, they can offer him security a full year ahead of UFA, he can sign for 8 years etc

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

They don't have any 1sts this year...Mittelstadt isn't high on my list so its just a few prospects and I'm sure they are probably loathe to trade them...personally I'm looking elsewhere, but options seem slim at the moment.


Not necessarily for Miller.

Well, is your goal to blow it all up? Miller will be the first domino to fall, if this org has any f***ing brains about it to cobble together.

You can afford to lose a Miller trade and hope EP performs better in the interim, tell him to play better and he can pick where he goes.

Miller is old, the way he plays he'll break down even harder than Kesler did. So the trade in the SR will look like a loss, but it's actually a LR play to improve the roster in the interim so you can blow it up later down the road when teams don't have us bent over a barrel.

You trade EP first, brother. *THAT* is the trade you can't afford to lose.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Nah, yeah, they are done.

Colorado is the team I would key in on. There's blood in the water there. They are the most "win now" they'll ever be.

Canes are out for sure, but they've shifted the power balance in the east so other teams will want to step up, especially with the playoff races so close .
Colorado as an option just replaces Carolina.

 

[arttk]

If we’re gonna fix Pettersson’s confidence

This won’t help

I wish they would just shut him down so he can fix his body

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I wish they would just shut him down so he can fix his body

I don't believe the player even wants that. He's too headstrong. You're right, though.

@Canucker I added more to my post after, fyi.

 

[Canucker]

Well, is your goal to blow it all up? Miller will be the first domino to fall, if this org has any f***ing brains about it to cobble together.

It's not "my goal", it seems like there are plenty of names being thrown around...IMO, if management is keen on Tocchet remaining as coach, they'd better find some players who can play "Tocchet hockey", if that means trading EP, Miller, Boeser, whomever, then they should do that...personally I'd prefer to remove Tocchet and keep the players.

 

[wonton15]

the question i have is why the canuck negotiations with the canes were so widely leaked and the avs negotiations silent.

Probably because Tulsky did it on purpose and played Allvin like a fiddle to up the leverage and urgency in the Colorado deal which was their real priority

 

[dbaz]

Adding Miller's $8m/yr would make it a bit more difficult to re-sign Rantanen...unless they've already decided he's strictly going to be a rental.

actually, they are fine even with Rantanen at 14mil and Miller there. A lot of expiring cap, cap going up next year. They are well managed

 

[arttk]

I don't believe the player even wants that. He's too headstrong. You're right, though.

@Canucker I added more to my post after, fyi.

Yeah, obviously playing through it isn’t doing f***ing shit .

actually, they are fine even with Rantanen at 14mil and Miller there. A lot of expiring cap, cap going up next year. They are well managed

Well managed doesn’t mean they make enough money to want to spend to a 98M cap.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

Jordan Staal is Carolina's second line C or KK? Either way that's probably not good enough to win a cup. So I could see them going after Miller as well still.

 

[Nucker101]

If we’re gonna fix Pettersson’s confidence

This won’t help

Meh, at this point he's either got some issue that's effecting his skating or he's just too mentally fragile. I love him as a player when he's on his game so you just have to keep giving him minutes and hope he wakes up, no point selling him for a Necas type of player. If Barzal or Tage becomes available then it starts getting interesting.

 

[Quinning]

Canes are out for sure, but they've shifted the power balance in the east so other teams will want to step up, especially with the playoff races so close .
Colorado as an option just replaces Carolina.

Pressure is likely put on management by Nate to bring in more firepower as well.

Jordan Staal is Carolina's second line C or KK? Either way that's probably not good enough to win a cup. So I could see them going after Miller as well still.

Adding Miller to that lineup would be ridiculous.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Well managed doesn’t mean they make enough money to want to spend to a 98M cap.

To wit, you can also "outmanage" yourself. Or so @MS would have you believe with his crazy 2012 Perry notions. This season is their tipping point. MacK's gotta be in the office begging for Miller in about a month.

 

[Quinning]

Probably because Tulsky did it on purpose and played Allvin like a fiddle to up the leverage and urgency in the Colorado deal which was their real priority

It feels like this happens to us a lot.

 

[Orr4Norris]

It's not "my goal", it seems like there are plenty of names being thrown around...IMO, if management is keen on Tocchet remaining as coach, they'd better find some players who can play "Tocchet hockey", if that means trading EP, Miller, Boeser, whomever, then they should do that...personally I'd prefer to remove Tocchet and keep the players.

These players could not play ‘Green’ hockey, ‘Bruce’ hockey or ‘Tocchet’ hockey but changing the coach is going to help? I’m sure it will give them a small boost which will dwindle away as soon as any bumps along the road are encountered.

 

[Canucker]

actually, they are fine even with Rantanen at 14mil and Miller there. A lot of expiring cap, cap going up next year. They are well managed

Not suggesting it "can't" be done, just saying it makes things tighter and will impact depth.

 

[arttk]

Probably because Tulsky did it on purpose and played Allvin like a fiddle to up the leverage and urgency in the Colorado deal which was their real priority

I imagine we probably went to them to jack up the value as well. Remember how 90%+ of the trades we made just pops up with no leaks.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

It feels like this happens to us a lot.

We play ourselves, man.

It's like...you finish unloading your trailer, think you're done for the day, then that dickhead supervisor Brian's got another one for ya.

 

[Canucker]

These players could not play ‘Green’ hockey, ‘Bruce’ hockey or ‘Tocchet’ hockey but changing the coach is going to help? I’m sure it will give them a small boost which will dwindle away as soon as any bumps along the road are encountered.

Then trade them during the "boost".

 

[Bobby9]

I wish they would just shut him down so he can fix his body

Why would they do that? Theirs nothing wrong with him.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Then trade them during the "boost".

Yes. That would be ideal. The owner would never allow though.

 

[Canucker]

Yes. That would be ideal. The owner would never allow though.

He might at this point...he has to be going nuts. lol

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Then trade them during the "boost".

Right idea. I disagree upon the execution. Keep Tocchet, project strength and produce leverage. I miss the days of Brian Burke who'd actually leverage this situation nicely.

Nowadays, all managers are suits with the charisma of a wet towel on the floor of some god forsaken men's change room.