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[strattonius]

or D petey.

Willander and D-Petey aren't even comparable at this point.

One of them looks like a sure fire top 4 d-man. A 'blue chip'.
The other we are all hoping will become an NHL'er one day...in any capacity.

 

[David71]

Willander and D-Petey aren't even comparable at this point.

One of them looks like a sure fire top 4 d-man. A 'blue chip'.
The other we are all hoping will become an NHL'er one day...in any capacity.

then might as well stay status quo if they arent gonna trade of their top prospects. could hoglander be that piece? i know he resigned but teams might be interested.

 

[arttk]

this is what happens when the previous regime traded picks like candy. no interesting ready prospects to step in at all.

I am not debating that, i know Benning sucked, f*** him.
I am just saying that even if we go all in, we need to do it in a way where we retain the people we pay assets for and you only go full rental when you are really really close. I don’t think we are there yet. If we get a LD this year and maybe some forward help, we should be able to keep that guy if Willander can come in and be a NHL guy with a ELC.

then might as well stay status quo if they arent gonna trade of their top prospects. could hoglander be that piece? i know he resigned but teams might be interested.

I mean, you can get a pretty good player with a 1st and b level prospect. If we are trading Willander, it will be for an all star level guy, that’s what blue chip prospect goes for.

 

[strattonius]

then might as well stay status quo if they arent gonna trade of their top prospects. could hoglander be that piece? i know he resigned but teams might be interested.

You have such a black and white concept of how teams plan and build and try to win.

Willander won't be traded and the team won't be staying status quo. Say it ain't so. Team will move a 1st this year to improve the blueline and the rest is wait and see.

 

[HairyKneel]

They had Myers as their RD2 last playoffs and took the Western Conference champs to 7 games. If you can upgrade the left side for less cost, it’s not a bad option.

Yeah the heat Myers gets on here is hilarious. He's just fine as a second pairing RH D. The guy will play 1200 games. But I guess all GM's and coaches in this league are morons because "OBC".....

 

[F A N]

Cap, we need to keep Willander with his ELC to get past the OEL cap hit

I think Willander should be close to being an untouchable but not for cap reasons.

I think relying on Willander to help the Canucks win a Cup in a top 4 role while on his ELC is a poor plan.

 

[theguardianII]

You have such a black and white concept of how teams plan and build and try to win.

Willander won't be traded and the team won't be staying status quo. Say it ain't so. Team will move a 1st this year to improve the blueline and the rest is wait and see.

Move a first?
The cap!
The team will need to move salaries.

Right now it doesn't appear that management is sure what direction to take the team.

If they had kept the majority of the players from last year moving maybe one player, this year they would at least have a group history but 8 players are gone so this group might as well be new.

Tocchet wants clones so any player can play his system but that is only good for the mushy middle.

Wait? For what? Miller ain't getting any younger or faster. Brock is probably gone, they can't afford his next deal and you have to wonder why keep him, the team has had only one winning season.
Since 2014 the Nux have had two winning seasons, 2016 and last year, is that some reason to keep those players?

 

[thecupismine]

They had Myers as their RD2 last playoffs and took the Western Conference champs to 7 games. If you can upgrade the left side for less cost, it’s not a bad option.

It's also just way more sensible long-term to upgrade the left side. Willander should be ready next year in a bottom pairing role, which means he'll alternate in and out of the lineup with Myers/Deharnais. Acquire a long-term piece on the right side and all of a sudden there's no space for the team's best prospect.

Trading for a RHD is generally more expensive too, and the system is barren of long-term fits on the left side. Given the history between the organizations, I'd be shocked if Alvin doesn't try to go hard after Marcus Petterson as we get closer to the deadline.

 

[arttk]

I think Willander should be close to being an untouchable but not for cap reasons.

I think relying on Willander to help the Canucks win a Cup in a top 4 role while on his ELC is a poor plan.

I think the plan is have him contributing like a 5.

Hughes - Hronek
Soucy - Myers
Top4 - Willander

And the last 2 paring are interchangeable.

 

[strattonius]

Move a first?
The cap!
The team will need to move salaries.

Right now it doesn't appear that management is sure what direction to take the team.

If they had kept the majority of the players from last year moving maybe one player, this year they would at least have a group history but 8 players are gone so this group might as well be new.

Tocchet wants clones so any player can play his system but that is only good for the mushy middle.

Wait? For what? Miller ain't getting any younger or faster. Brock is probably gone, they can't afford his next deal and you have to wonder why keep him, the team has had only one winning season.
Since 2014 the Nux have had two winning seasons, 2016 and last year, is that some reason to keep those players?

Jesus christ stop blabbering.

You wonder why you don't get any discourse around here it's because you take on 50 different arguments in one shot. How is someone supposed to respond to you? You can't stay focused on the topic at hand. It's like talking to a flat Earther. There are just so many god damn counter points no one knows where to start so they don't bother.

You'll probably 'like' this post and confuse the hell out of me.

 

[pitseleh]

Some numbers from Patrick Johnston:

A look at the NHL’s Edge Stats engine reveals some interesting year-over-year data for Pettersson: In his first six games this year, he hasn’t hit the top speed he hit last season, and he hasn’t had nearly as many speed bursts as he did last year, either.

Indeed, his skating so far this season is in the bottom 50 per cent of the league — his top speed burst has been 34.2 km/h, below the league average of 34.7.

Last season, he was slightly above average, hitting 36.7 km/h, the league average at 35.6.

And the number of times he had speed bursts over 32 km/h is so far below average — he’s done so just six times, whereas the average NHL skater has done so nine times. Last year, he hit the hammer over 32 km/h 111 times while the league average was 73 times.

And in 2022-23, his top speed had him in the 93rd percentile in the league, hitting 37.51 km/h (the league average that year was 35.5 km/h).

Canucks mail bag: What's with Elias Pettersson's skating?

NHL Edge data is very revealing about player performance, year over year. Elias Pettersson isn't skating as fast as he used to.

theprovince.com

Supports that the knee is probably impacting him.

 

[RobertKron]

Jesus christ stop blabbering.

You wonder why you don't get any discourse around here it's because you take on 50 different arguments in one shot. How is someone supposed to respond to you? You can't stay focused on the topic at hand. It's like talking to a flat Earther. There are just so many god damn counter points no one knows where to start so they don't bother.

You'll probably 'like' this post and confuse the hell out of me.

It's rare to see someone so unqualified to be so confident.

 

[Jerry the great]

I think Willander should be close to being an untouchable but not for cap reasons.

I think relying on Willander to help the Canucks win a Cup in a top 4 role while on his ELC is a poor plan.

Trading Willander would be re+arded IMO. Prospects who blow the doors off their D+1 season despite having major hurdles to success at the pro level make great trade bait. Prospects who have ++ skating, ++ compete and play a disciplined, defensively responsible pro ready game are assets to hold and develop. No deconstruction before reconstruction required at the next level. Then there's the cap situation....and the fact that we have a bunch of interesting LHD prospects with varying chances of pro success. Trading our only RHD prospect makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Ernie]

Some numbers from Patrick Johnston:

A look at the NHL’s Edge Stats engine reveals some interesting year-over-year data for Pettersson: In his first six games this year, he hasn’t hit the top speed he hit last season, and he hasn’t had nearly as many speed bursts as he did last year, either.

Indeed, his skating so far this season is in the bottom 50 per cent of the league — his top speed burst has been 34.2 km/h, below the league average of 34.7.

Last season, he was slightly above average, hitting 36.7 km/h, the league average at 35.6.

And the number of times he had speed bursts over 32 km/h is so far below average — he’s done so just six times, whereas the average NHL skater has done so nine times. Last year, he hit the hammer over 32 km/h 111 times while the league average was 73 times.

And in 2022-23, his top speed had him in the 93rd percentile in the league, hitting 37.51 km/h (the league average that year was 35.5 km/h).

Canucks mail bag: What's with Elias Pettersson's skating?

NHL Edge data is very revealing about player performance, year over year. Elias Pettersson isn't skating as fast as he used to.

theprovince.com

Supports that the knee is probably impacting him.

People are arguing back and forth about his injury but worst case scenario is that this actually is a long term injury that's affecting his game and isn't going to get better.

 

[RobertKron]

People are arguing back and forth about his injury but worst case scenario is that this actually is a long term injury that's affecting his game and isn't going to get better.

Still think that since the beginning of last year this has looked like a player dealing with an abdominal or back injury, struggling to be able to generate power in his strides and playing very much upright all the time. I don't know that I believe that this is actually what the issue is, but he still looks that way to my eyes.

 

[Jerry the great]

Some numbers from Patrick Johnston:

A look at the NHL’s Edge Stats engine reveals some interesting year-over-year data for Pettersson: In his first six games this year, he hasn’t hit the top speed he hit last season, and he hasn’t had nearly as many speed bursts as he did last year, either.

Indeed, his skating so far this season is in the bottom 50 per cent of the league — his top speed burst has been 34.2 km/h, below the league average of 34.7.

Last season, he was slightly above average, hitting 36.7 km/h, the league average at 35.6.

And the number of times he had speed bursts over 32 km/h is so far below average — he’s done so just six times, whereas the average NHL skater has done so nine times. Last year, he hit the hammer over 32 km/h 111 times while the league average was 73 times.

And in 2022-23, his top speed had him in the 93rd percentile in the league, hitting 37.51 km/h (the league average that year was 35.5 km/h).

Canucks mail bag: What's with Elias Pettersson's skating?

NHL Edge data is very revealing about player performance, year over year. Elias Pettersson isn't skating as fast as he used to.

theprovince.com

Supports that the knee is probably impacting him.

numbers across the board are lower this year. something funky with the data. Pull up pretty much any elite skaters numbers and this years numbers are materially lower than last.

 

[pitseleh]

numbers across the board are lower this year. something funky with the data. Pull up pretty much any elite skaters numbers and this years numbers are materially lower than last.

That may be but 93rd percentile to slightly above average to slightly below average is a concerning trend.

 

[beachcomber]

They aren’t trading Willander.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I listened to the first part of this where Riccio and Shah run through some different defencemen, both left and right handed, that may become available.

Defensive Trade Targets:
-aren't that many obvious trade targets available
-not even sure there's a Hronek-type available
-the handedness of the defenceman the Canucks pursue will probably depend on the market
-even if you want to upgrade the right side, there's not a lot potentially on the market
-Ivan Provorov first mentioned as being an obvious trade candidate; Cam Fowler is the other obvious
-mentions Chychrun (says he has another year on his deal but false, he's a UFA after this year) but points out that the Capitals are 5-1-0 right now
-Marcus Pettersson is a nice piece and not sure if he's available right now
-Rasmus Andersson has another year left and the Flames are not looking to make trade if they near a playoff spot; calls him the ideal trade candidate
-should be projecting a player that could be available since the trade market is so sparse
-Damon Severson and Mackenzie Weegar are two players with lots of term that are mentioned
-wonder where the Senators are going and mentions Artem Zub; if the Senators don't improve he may become available given his age and young prospects in their system

Longer-Term Players:
-not an enticing list of prospective players
-Colton Parayko, for example, has 6 years left at 6.5m
-do the Canucks want to lock themselves into a long-term commitment when they have Tom Willander coming?
-if they do go after someone on a long-term deal then Willander becomes part of that trade
-Blue Jackets are in transition

Right-Handed Rentals:
-would rather target a rental but the three right-handed rental defencemen are Ethan Bear, David Savard, and Will Borgen
-Will Borgen is on the Kraken and they are playing well

Timothy Liljegren:
-talk about Liljegren and how he needs to round out his game but is a smarter bet than the rentals or longer term contracts
-if the Canucks would acquire Liljegren, it comes with them being confidence that they can develop him
-not sure if Liljegren has a harder edge to him
-would have a lower cost to acquire
-Maple Leafs want to get an asset back for him right now
-when Hakanpaa returns, it may push the Maple Leafs to get Liljegren off the books

Other Right-Handed Defencemen with Term:
-Connor Murphy of the Blackhawks; might end up being the defencemen that teams go after if Rasmus Andersson isn't available
-Nick Jensen of the Capitals but he's in his mid-30s and his game is only okay

Vladislav Gavrikov:
-a really good defencemen
-pending UFA
-has a full NTC
-availability determined by where the Kings are in the standings

Sharks Defencemen:
-Mario Ferraro wouldn't be a cheap acquisition
-Jake Walman has really good early results according to the underlying numbers
-Ferraro has a really high reputation around the league but his underlying numbers aren't as good

Why? The D is already solid. Soucy-Myers is an excellent 2nd pairing and great at shutting down top lines in the playoffs, Brannstrom can play either side and is a nice addition to the bottom pairing with capable checking defenders Forbort & Desharnais rotating.

 

[thecupismine]

That may be but 93rd percentile to slightly above average to slightly below average is a concerning trend.

I’m curious how this holds up over time. First 5 games he was super upright all game in his stride, last game in Chicago his skating was much more fluid/proper bend and appeared to get more power in his stride.

 

[Jerry the great]

That may be but 93rd percentile to slightly above average to slightly below average is a concerning trend.

That's fair, if all the numbers are correct this year. I just don't believe they are. Did Connor Bedard's skating fall off a cliff? Brock Faber? Funky data is useless especially if only some of the collection equipment isn't functioning properly.

Now in Pettersson's case, he's also failing the eye test....so that alone is cause for concern.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Why? The D is already solid. Soucy-Myers is an excellent 2nd pairing and great at shutting down top lines in the playoffs, Brannstrom can play either side and is a nice addition to the bottom pairing with capable checking defenders Forbort & Desharnais rotating.

No they are not.

 

[StickShift]

They aren’t trading Willander.

I wouldn’t be so sure—it depends how he develops between now and March.

Unless he demonstrates that he has a clear path to making an NHL impact in the next 1-2 seasons, his window doesn’t really match up with this roster’s competitive window.

Trading for a verified impact player over the next 1-2 seasons over losing the chance of an impact player in 3-4 years from now is probably something Rutherford/Allvin would do given their track record.

All of this is moot though if Willander really turns the dial up. The reality is that he hasn’t done this yet.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Yeah the heat Myers gets on here is hilarious. He's just fine as a second pairing RH D.

Seems like people forgot about the playoffs last season. Hughes & Hronek were getting absolutely hammered in the playoffs and were a liability at times and were purposely targeted. We had to split them up at times and put Big Z with one & Cole with 1. Soucy-Myers was easily our best pairing and did a great job shutting down top lines (excellent against the Hyman-McDavid-Draisaitl line 5 on 5), Big Z was our best Dman overall, Cole was great in the 1st series but clearly faded by the 2nd series, Hughes struggled, Hronek was our worst defender. What I’m trying to say is playoff hockey is a whole lot different from regular season hockey. We have lost a bit of size and heaviness without Big Zadorov and Ian Cole but we should be Ok for the playoffs. The D is currently set up better for intense playoff battles and playoff success than it is for casual regular season hockey and I’m okay with that.

 

[rypper]

The only way they're trading Willander is if somehow a young-ish defender on a great deal shakes loose. Like in the vein of Rasmus Andersson but not necessarily him. 25-27 age range.