Gravel signs

[Kingspiracy]

Sure but Gravel has to want play for that team, If it's Florida or
EDM come calling. I doubt Gravel signs a contract in those places.

There is some factors to consider, I expect Gravel to play his contract in Manchester next season.

Both sides are keeping options open, it's good.

Given how high some of our posters are on Gravel it seems pretty likely that several other organizations will throw a few dollars at the guy, get him for nothing.

 

[damacles1156]

Given how high some of our posters are on Gravel it seems pretty likely that several other organizations will throw a few dollars at the guy, get him for nothing.

Well it's more complicated than that, No NHL team is going to compromise their roster for the chance at Gravel.

Despite Gravel being very good, he is still a prospect. Most NHL teams have their roster set by Aug 15th.

Just look at Holloway still playing in Euro. Also Gravel has want to sign with said team.

If I was Gravel, I would try my hardest to make the Kings.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I don't think that's end of story. He is an NHL UFA on August 15th (Manchester contract doesn't matter). Hard to believe no team will give him an offer then.

This sounds like the most logical and unbias response. I'm still hopeful he'll sign with us, but wouldn't be surprised if we lost the kid.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Well it's more complicated than that, No NHL team is going to compromise their roster for the chance at Gravel.

Despite Gravel being very good, he is still a prospect. Most NHL teams have their roster set by Aug 15th.

Just look at Holloway still playing in Euro. Also Gravel has want to sign with said team.

If I was Gravel, I would try my hardest to make the Kings.

I don't really understand the contract side of things, It just seems a bit weird, the Kings are either not offering a contract that he likes or Gravel feels he'll get a better offer elsewhere.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I don't really understand the contract side of things, It just seems a bit weird, the Kings are either not offering a contract that he likes or Gravel feels he'll get a better offer elsewhere.

Nothing really complicated. Like Holden said, Gravel will be a UFA on Aug 15, and if he isn't signed by the kings before then, he has the option of signing with any team that offers him a contract.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Nothing really complicated. Like Holden said, Gravel will be a UFA on Aug 15, and if he isn't signed by the kings before then, he has the option of signing with any team that offers him a contract.

I meant more along the lines of one way and two way contracts, what players get in the minors, waiver eligibility etc.

What would stop a team offering him 1.5mill, then sending him down to the minors on a one way contract if they had their NHL D set already.

 

[damacles1156]

I meant more along the lines of one way and two way contracts, what players get in the minors, waiver eligibility etc.

What would stop a team offering him 1.5mill, then sending him down to the minors on a one way contract if they had their NHL D set already.

Well for one, Contending teams are all pretty much up against the Cap. They can't afford to offer someone 1.5 Mill that 980k of it will still count towards the cap in sitting in the minors.

The only team I could see wanting to poach Gravel and put him on an NHL roster, is the NYI or EDM.

I doubt Gravel signs with either. It would have to be one sweet deal.

 

[Herby]

Disagree DMac
Playing in Edmonton, Buffalo or Florida is still the NHL, it's still chartered flights, it's still playing in sold out arenas (well maybe not Fla) and most importantly it's still collecting an NHL paycheck. Just from talking to a couple of guys over the years who played in the AHL it's not exactly the most glamorous lifestyle and the money sucks

Gravel is not ancient by any stretch, but he will be turning 23 during the season, hockey players have a finite amount of time to play in the league and make money, if someone offers him an NHL contract and the Kings only offer an AHL deal I think the decision is easy, no matter how bad the team is.

 

[guderian]

If he signs NHL contract with Kings or anybody else is he exempt from going through waivers?

 

[damacles1156]

Disagree DMac
Playing in Edmonton, Buffalo or Florida is still the NHL, it's still chartered flights, it's still playing in sold out arenas (well maybe not Fla) and most importantly it's still collecting an NHL paycheck. Just from talking to a couple of guys over the years who played in the AHL it's not exactly the most glamorous lifestyle and the money sucks

Gravel is not ancient by any stretch, but he will be turning 23 during the season, hockey players have a finite amount of time to play in the league and make money, if someone offers him an NHL contract and the Kings only offer an AHL deal I think the decision is easy, no matter how bad the team is.

Ive actually met Gravel a couple times, He didn't seem too enthusiastic about playing for a losing Organization.

It came up in conversation about playing for any team. He had some choice words for the garbage franchises of the league.

Money is not everything in life. It's just money, it comes and goes.

Now if someone like Chicago/DET comes and offers him an NHL contract, well then that's it he is gone.

It would have to be a pretty sweet deal from a Garbage team(A guarantee that he trusts).

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Idk. I don't see Gravel muscling Mcnabb out of the 7th D spot. It just doesn't make sense given how aggressively Lombardi went after Mcnabb at the deadline. He's their guy going into next year and waiver eligible.

Gravel better be happy with the option of potentially being called up at points throughout 14/15. I just don't see where he fits if he's that NHL ready.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Ok seems to be some confusion here. I'll try to help out.

Holloway and Gravel are two completely different cases. Holloway is RFA. Any team signing him to a deal he would take (ie one-way over 1.1 mil) would have to pay compensation to the Kings.

In terms of Gravel he is an unsigned prospect. So on August 15th he becomes a UFA. Free to sign with any team with no compensation to the Kings.

Now despite the fact that he'd be UFA he'd still be subject to ELC rules. Which means that the contract is fixed in certain ways. For him it has to be a two-way deal with a 67.5K maximum on the minor league end. The top end NHL salary is 900K. It must also be a 2 year contract. There are certain bonuses outlined in the CBA that can be offered (only bonuses gotten through NHL play though and even those are strictly controlled by CBA). In terms of waivers Gravel is exempt from waivers for 2 years or 60 NHL games played.

So no team could come in and offer him a one-way. No team can exceed the above amounts (actually just found a clause that seems to indicate if he hits UFA he can get an extra 25K on NHL side and 3.5K on AHL side). Therefore the only guarantee a team could offer in terms of playing in NHL would be their word.

Hope that helps. Any agent with half a brain would always advise a player to take an offered NHL contract over no NHL contract (ie contract with Manchester) so long as it's a real offer (not the Bonafide offers teams intentionally stack against players when just trying to retain rights). And there will be teams offering real contracts. With an NHL contract you have a chance. You never know when that chance will present itself again.

It's also a guarantee of sorts. Let's say (knock on wood) Gravel stays with Manchester and gets a career ending injury in game 1. Ok he gets the 60K or whatever remaining on that deal and moves on in life. Now say thing but he has signed with Florida. Ok he gets the remaining ~60K for that year, plus the next year he gets 900K since they can't send down an injured player (all players go back onto NHL rosters every summer). Not the likelist of scenarios but it's one. Or Florida has a run on injuries and he gets the recall. Maybe that's his chance on his sticks in NHL longterm. At worst it'll be more in a couple of weeks than he'd get all year in AHL. It's ALWAYS better to have an NHL contract, no matter the team. Obviously it's better to be in a well run organization, but if they aren't willing to give you your opportunity you have to take it to someone who will if you can.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Idk. I don't see Gravel muscling Mcnabb out of the 7th D spot. It just doesn't make sense given how aggressively Lombardi went after Mcnabb at the deadline. He's their guy going into next year and waiver eligible.

Gravel better be happy with the option of potentially being called up at points throughout 14/15. I just don't see where he fits if he's that NHL ready.

This is the thing. He CAN'T be called up in 2014-15 if he doesn't have an NHL contract.

It's not just about making the team out of camp. Honestly I doubt there is a single NHL team willing to commit even verbally to him a roster spot next year. However there is real security in an NHL contract plus the chance to show yourself.

If he hits UFA I wouldn't be shocked if he has 20+ offers on the table. Likely none of them guaranteeing spots. But if the Kings aren't willing to commit to him (and in reality it's a small commit) why should he commit to the Kings? Plenty of other teams are well run as well.

 

[damacles1156]

Not really worried about it, I believe Gravel wants to be a King. He will do what is necessary.

Honestly I think his agent was just boasting about Aug 15th to get a contract (right now). I don't think Gravel intends to leave the Kings.

That is just a personal opinion.

If Gravel leaves, well then best of luck to him. I like Gravel, he is im my mind the Kings best SHD prospect.

But never marry yourself to prospects, they are just that (Prospects).

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Not really worried about it, I believe Gravel wants to be a King. He will do what is necessary.

Honestly I think his agent was just boasting about Aug 15th to get a contract (right now). I don't think Gravel intends to leave the Kings.

That is just a personal opinion.

If Gravel leaves, well then best of luck to him.

No idea what you are talking about here. This is and always has been the deadline on him. Since the end of the college season I've been talking about that deadline since it's what's in the CBA.

I hope they get him signed. However I strongly doubt cns in his convictions that Gravel will be in Manchester on an AHL deal next year. Can't see it myself. I know cns is great on the Manchester stuff, I just don't see this one. I've been wrong maybe once or twice before though

 

[damacles1156]

No idea what you are talking about here. This is and always has been the deadline on him. Since the end of the college season I've been talking about that deadline since it's what's in the CBA.

I hope they get him signed. However I strongly doubt cns in his convictions that Gravel will be in Manchester on an AHL deal next year. Can't see it myself. I know cns is great on the Manchester stuff, I just don't see this one. I've been wrong maybe once or twice before though

What don't you understand about it ? The Agent uses it as leverage.

"Hey sign Gravel now or he walks Aug 15th" Look like the Kings are calling the agent/Gravel on his bluff/ non bluff.

Yes Gravel is UFA on aug 15th, but that doesn't mean Gravel will sign a deal with someone. He could still remain in Manchester (it's his choice).

 

[Holden Caulfield]

What don't you understand about it ? The Agent uses it as leverage.

"Hey sign Gravel now or he walks Aug 15th" Look like the Kings are calling the agent/Gravel on his bluff/ non bluff.

Yes Gravel is UFA on aug 15th, but that doesn't mean Gravel will sign a deal with someone. He could still remain in Manchester (it's his choice).

Sounded like you were talking about some incident in particular.

We'll see but personally I think Gravel would be pretty stupid to stay in Manchester on an AHL deal. He can if he wants though. We'll see.

 

[kingsfan]

Ive actually met Gravel a couple times, He didn't seem too enthusiastic about playing for a losing Organization.

It came up in conversation about playing for any team. He had some choice words for the garbage franchises of the league.

Money is not everything in life. It's just money, it comes and goes.

Now if someone like Chicago/DET comes and offers him an NHL contract, well then that's it he is gone.

It would have to be a pretty sweet deal from a Garbage team(A guarantee that he trusts).

Money is not everything, but it is a huge thing. If you have a chance to sign an AHL only deal or sign on with a less deep NHL team where you might see a few NHL games or even be a regular in 2-3 years (something that's far less likely in LA than in some other organizations) then you go for it. He can get $65,000 or whatever to play the AHL anywhere, but a chance to earn $600,000 can only come with a NHL deal. Who at 23 passes up a shot at $600,000 for just $65,000? That's like working for 10 years and getting paid for about one year.

Money is a huge factor for the majority of people, the chances 23 year old Gravel is going to just toss aside hundreds of thausands of dollars just so he can stay within an organization thats he officially been a part of for all of a few months is even less likely than me getting to motorboat Katy Perry.

 

[damacles1156]

Sounded like you were talking about some incident in particular.

We'll see but personally I think Gravel would be pretty stupid to stay in Manchester on an AHL deal. He can if he wants though. We'll see.

Whats stupid about it ? Some guys want to play for certain teams. Certain teams require a process.

Also we forget the Kings had the draft coming up, maybe they didn't want to hand Gravel a contract just yet.

Who knows.

 

[damacles1156]

Money is not everything, but it is a huge thing. If you have a chance to sign an AHL only deal or sign on with a less deep NHL team where you might see a few NHL games or even be a regular in 2-3 years (something that's far less likely in LA than in some other organizations) then you go for it. He can get $65,000 or whatever to play the AHL anywhere, but a chance to earn $600,000 can only come with a NHL deal. Who at 23 passes up a shot at $600,000 for just $65,000? That's like working for 10 years and getting paid for about one year.

Money is a huge factor for the majority of people, the chances 23 year old Gravel is going to just toss aside hundreds of thausands of dollars just so he can stay within an organization thats he officially been a part of for all of a few months is even less likely than me getting to motorboat Katy Perry.

We shall see. Aug 15th is coming up.

How smart does Bud Holloway look right now chasing money, his dream was to play in the NHL. Also likely missed out on Two Stanley Cup runs . All to make 125k more than he was making in Manchester.

One thing I think people are forgetting, if Gravel is simply going to leave Aug 15th.....Like all of you assume.

Why sign a Manchester contract at all ? Why even bother ? What's the point ?

If he is going to receive all these offers Aug 15th....Why even bother with Manchester at all ?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Whats stupid about it ? Some guys want to play for certain teams. Certain teams require a process.

Also we forget the Kings had the draft coming up, maybe they didn't want to hand Gravel a contract just yet.

Who knows.

It's stupid since it's turning down a chance to play in the NHL and the security that comes with an NHL contract. I already posted the reasons. The Kings are making him jump through hoops no other player does.

Draft does not effect contracts. At MOST you'll see one maybe two contracts out of the draft, most of those just going to junior where they don't count anyways. That doesn't effect anything.

We shall see. Aug 15th is coming up.

How smart does Bud Holloway look right now chasing money, his dream was to play in the NHL.

Except Gravel wouldn't be chasing just money but also the chance to play in the NHL. If the Kings want to play those type of games with Gravel they are going to lose him. Just like the Islanders doing the same to Brendan Kichton who ended up an AHL all-star at 21 this year and likely being an NHLer in a year or two.

Quality prospects are a commodity. There is a process and the Kings have to do right by what they need but Gravel has to also look out for himself. If the Kings will not support him he must look to other avenues. It's a give and take. If the Kings are alright losing him over that well whatever, but as a Kings fan I am not particularly happy about it.

 

[damacles1156]

It's stupid since it's turning down a chance to play in the NHL and the security that comes with an NHL contract. I already posted the reasons. The Kings are making him jump through hoops no other player does.

Draft does not effect contracts. At MOST you'll see one maybe two contracts out of the draft, most of those just going to junior where they don't count anyways. That doesn't effect anything.



Except Gravel wouldn't be chasing just money but also the chance to play in the NHL. If the Kings want to play those type of games with Gravel they are going to lose him. Just like the Islanders doing the same to Brendan Kichton who ended up an AHL all-star at 21 this year and likely being an NHLer in a year or two.

Quality prospects are a commodity. There is a process and the Kings have to do right by what they need but Gravel has to also look out for himself. If the Kings will not support him he must look to other avenues. It's a give and take. If the Kings are alright losing him over that well whatever, but as a Kings fan I am not particularly happy about it.

Again why bother signing the Manchester contract then ? If he is going to receive all these offers and play in the NHL.

Why even show up to anything Kings related, he could just take a break.

No point in signing that Manchester contract at all. Hell both sides could save themselves trouble, and just say No thanks.

The fact they bothered to hammer out an AHL deal, is a waste of time then.

Hehe

Lombardi "Hey Kevin he is an AHL deal"

Kevin "Sweet Dean (Signs), O BTW Deano I am leaving aug 15th if I don't have an NHL deal with you"

Lombardi "Awesome Kevin good luck".

Good laugh for us all get a chuckle.

 

[kingsfan]

We shall see. Aug 15th is coming up.

How smart does Bud Holloway look right now chasing money, his dream was to play in the NHL. Also likely missed out on Two Stanley Cup runs . All to make 125k more than he was making in Manchester.

One thing I think people are forgetting, if Gravel is simply going to leave Aug 15th.....Like all of you assume.

Why sign a Manchester contract at all ? Why even bother ? What's the point ?

If he is going to receive all these offers Aug 15th....Why even bother with Manchester at all ?

Bud Holloway doesn't look smart. The countless others who did follow the money sure do though. Anyone can find an example of someone who chased the money and lost. It doesn't take away from the fact that many players will follow the money. Even Joe Sakic signed with the Rangers as a RFA (a contract that got matched by Colorado). If someone like him can chase the higher contract and be willing to leave the organization, why can't Gravel?

As for why sign in Manchester? Likely a combination of two reasons. Firstly, until August he can only sign with LA, so signing on with their AHL affiliate gives him a chance to strut his stuff for LA. Secondly, if LA chooses not to sign him to a NHL deal he now has had a five game showcase in the AHL for other teams to evaluate. NHL teams find it easier to project a guy based on playing pro level talent than college. Think of it as an early training camp.

 

[damacles1156]

Bud Holloway doesn't look smart. The countless others who did follow the money sure do though. Anyone can find an example of someone who chased the money and lost. It doesn't take away from the fact that many players will follow the money. Even Joe Sakic signed with the Rangers as a RFA (a contract that got matched by Colorado). If someone like him can chase the higher contract and be willing to leave the organization, why can't Gravel?

As for why sign in Manchester? Likely a combination of two reasons. Firstly, until August he can only sign with LA, so signing on with their AHL affiliate gives him a chance to strut his stuff for LA. Secondly, if LA chooses not to sign him to a NHL deal he now has had a five game showcase in the AHL for other teams to evaluate. NHL teams find it easier to project a guy based on playing pro level talent than college. Think of it as an early training camp.

Gravel can do whatever the hell he wants. I am just suggesting that he may want to stay with Kings, and may be ok with playing on an AHL deal.

I mean that is not out of the realm of possibility. Is it smart ? debatable. But if that is what Kevin wants, then cool.

If he wants to leave, that's cool as well. I'll root for him.

If he is intent on leaving, it still doesn't make sense to sign an AHL deal. If I was that confident in my ability to get an NHL contract(from another team). I wouldn't risk an injury in the AHL at all.

 

[lumbergh]

He's going to Kings training camp yes? Maybe he earns a contract with the Kings come September.