Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[RedHawkDown]

What specifically would you like changed?

I’m not a hockey front executive at the top of the industry. I dunno. I don’t have all the answers. But there is a bad pattern down there so something should probably be done about it

 

[jaster]

2 years from the beginning of this AHL season. Only 1 from the end of it.

1 year from the end of the off-season. 16 months from the end of the season.

 

[Frk It]

I’m not a hockey front executive at the top of the industry. I dunno. I don’t have all the answers. But there is a bad pattern down there so something should probably be done about it

What's more likely to you:

We have some magical unidentifiable issue going on in GR

or

The players underperforming there are not as good as we think they are

or

People have unrealistic expectations for certain prospects playing there given their age and current stage of development

I think it's a lot of 3, some of 2, and very little of 1.

2 years from the beginning of this AHL season. Only 1 from the end of it.

1 year from the end of the off-season. 16 months from the end of the season.

 

[norrisnick]

1 year from the end of the off-season. 16 months from the end of the season.

Are offseasons not part of a year? They're a linked part of the same cycle. Every year gets a season and an offseason. So typically... when one refers to a number of years or seasons... they're talking about both.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I’m not a hockey front executive at the top of the industry. I dunno. I don’t have all the answers. But there is a bad pattern down there so something should probably be done about it

I sense that GR is not much more than a reflection of our drafting in the end. Nothing we do in GR is going to change water into wine in my experience. If someone can tell me what specifically we are doing down there that actually hurts our prospects, I am all ears.

 

[jaster]

Are offseasons not part of a year? They're a linked part of the same cycle. Every year gets a season and an offseason. So typically... when one refers to a number of years or seasons... they're talking about both.

In the context of how much he developed between the end of his AHL season and the beginning of his NHL season, there were two offseasons, and you HAVE TO COUNT BOTH. Cheater.

 

[norrisnick]

In the context of how much he developed between the end of his AHL season and the beginning of his NHL season, there were two offseasons, and you HAVE TO COUNT BOTH. Cheater.

Dun wanna can't make me... nerd.

 

[jaster]

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I think a lot of folks’ frustrations with GR stems from a misconception that the SHL is as difficult of a league as the AHL. The AHL is tougher. Probably not a full notch tougher, but like a half-notch. People see guys coming over from Sweden, producing less, and see a problem in GR. Reality is the AHL is a harder league to score in than the AHL for most players, and imo many posters expectations are out of line.

Love the year ASP is having, but I anticipate a "Why is Dan Watson ruining ASP?" thread roughly this time next year when he doesn't produce as effectively in GR.

 

[Frk It]

I think a lot of folks’ frustrations with GR stems from a misconception that the SHL is as difficult of a league as the AHL. The AHL is tougher. Probably not a full notch tougher, but like a half-notch. People see guys coming over from Sweden, producing less, and see a problem in GR.

Some of us have been saying this.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I think a lot of folks’ frustrations with GR stems from a misconception that the SHL is as difficult of a league as the AHL. The AHL is tougher. Probably not a full notch tougher, but like a half-notch. People see guys coming over from Sweden, producing less, and see a problem in GR. Reality is the AHL is a harder league to score in than the AHL for most players, and imo many posters expectations are out of line.

Love the year ASP is having, but I anticipate a "Why is Dan Watson ruining ASP?" thread roughly this time next year when he doesn't produce as effectively in GR.

Eh, yes and no. They've also been legitimately terrible for several years now, losing a bunch of games despite having a lot of veteran support. Likewise, the beginning of this year was really rough, with seasoned AHLers struggling to succeed under Watson and his system. It's only recently that they've had any success at all, and probably too early to conclude that the problems have been solved.

Is part of that the young players adapting to a new level of play? Yeah, definitely. Does that explain why guys with demonstrated success at that level were struggling? Not at all.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Kasper will be a complimentary player. Don't expect him being the next Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Then he’s a bust. You can’t keep drafting complimentary players with top 10picks.

 

[izlez]

Then he’s a bust. You can’t keep drafting complimentary players with top 10picks.

Do you think there might be value in having words to differentiate between a top 10 pick that ends his career with 900 NHL games played with 350 points and a top 10 pick with 5 NHL games played and 0 points?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Do you think there might be value in having words to differentiate between a top 10 pick that ends his career with 900 NHL games played with 350 points and a top 10 pick with 5 NHL games played and 0 points?

Honestly, I think this is a similar use of a top 10
Pick in that it did not accomplish the purpose of a top 10 pick at all. The former player is easily acquired in free agency and trades. You would never trade a top 10 draft pick for Andrew Copp, so why would you be happy drafting him with one?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Honestly, I think this is a similar use of a top 10
Pick in that it did not accomplish the purpose of a top 10 pick at all. The former player is easily acquired in free agency and trades. You would never trade a top 10 draft pick for Andrew Copp, so why would you be happy drafting him with one?

And yet to get these easily acquired free agents such as Andrew Copp, you need to pay them $5.6mm.

I think we need to better quantify what exactly a success top 10 pick is. Top 3 and top 10 are two very different things.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Honestly, I think this is a similar use of a top 10
Pick in that it did not accomplish the purpose of a top 10 pick at all. The former player is easily acquired in free agency and trades. You would never trade a top 10 draft pick for Andrew Copp, so why would you be happy drafting him with one?

What is the purpose of a top 10 pick?

 

[Ulysses31]

I've lately started likeing this Red Wings podcast, and now they have Griffins specialist there.

Very interesting to hear opinions from somebody, who follows the farm team. I've seen zero games from them at this season. Just stat-watching.

its my go to DRW podcast. red wings rant aint bad but only once a week

 

[jaster]

its my go to DRW podcast. red wings rant aint bad but only once a week

What makes it good?

 

[David D]

What's more likely to you:

We have some magical unidentifiable issue going on in GR

or

The players underperforming there are not as good as we think they are

or

People have unrealistic expectations for certain prospects playing there given their age and current stage of development

I think it's a lot of 3, some of 2, and very little of 1.

Boston seems to develope pretty well and they dont have all the high draft pics we have!

 

[Ulysses31]

What makes it good?

they have more measured takes IMO than competition imo.

they not re-inventing the wheel, but they
1) they have more measured takes IMO than competition imo 2) watch the games thoroughly and i think decent at pointing out strengths n flaws in the team 3) likable personalities 4) good draft coverage 5) 4 or 5 episodes a week 6) root for the team and all playets to succeed instead of dunking on scape goats 6) no politics (vax, rainbow tape etc)

 

[David D]

Locked on Red Wings Podcast is "ok" They know very little about Jr players or college players or even players in Europe that are coming out in the draft! I don't learn anything on their podcast! "The Winged Wheel" Podcast is outstanding! Very Knowledgeable

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What is the purpose of a top 10 pick?

This is every forward drafted at 8 OA from 2000-2021 (before we drafted Kasper there). I will let you reach your own conclusions as to what constitutes a bust exactly.

GP G A PTS

Jack Quinn 89 19 27 46
Casey Mittelstadt 321 60 117 177
Alexander Nylander 98 14 20 34
William Nylander 563 198 289 487
Sean Couturier 761 190 299 489
Alexander Burmistrov 348 37 64 101
Scott Glennie 1 0 0 0
Mikkel Boedker 709 118 209 327
Zach Hamill 20 0 4 4
Peter Mueller 297 63 97 160
Devin Setoguchi 516 131 130 261
Pierre-Marc Bouchard 593 110 246 356
Nikita Alexeev 159 20 17 37

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Some of us have been saying this.

Only dummies that think the AHL is a better league than the SHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think a lot of folks’ frustrations with GR stems from a misconception that the SHL is as difficult of a league as the AHL. The AHL is tougher. Probably not a full notch tougher, but like a half-notch. People see guys coming over from Sweden, producing less, and see a problem in GR. Reality is the AHL is a harder league to score in than the AHL for most players, and imo many posters expectations are out of line.

Love the year ASP is having, but I anticipate a "Why is Dan Watson ruining ASP?" thread roughly this time next year when he doesn't produce as effectively in GR.

More than anything, the size of the ice really distinguishes the AHL from the European pro leagues. Regardless of what you think of the average AHL player, there is just inherently less time and space in the AHL. This can cause some growing pains for younger players.

 

[Frk It]

Only dummies that think the AHL is a better league than the SHL.

This may have been before your time, but if I'm not mistaken @The Zetterberg Era used to always say the AHL is the 2nd best league in the world.

And the more that time goes on, the more I agree with that.

When you are getting fed the amount of talent that league is from the CHL/NCAA/USHL, you just have a very high floor of talent in that league at any given time. Then you get a rotating mix of high end players trying to make their NHL teams.

I know you were poking fun here, but bait taken... lol