Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fuhrious

Registered User
Feb 3, 2004
1,800
1,466
Aren’t all similar venues wallet crushers in that regard?
Guess I expected more in line with the minor league baseball equivalent, and it just wasn’t. Honestly, I was more put off by the seats. Even the guy next to me commented how they “weren’t meant for normal sized people”. I don’t know if the seats in the lower bowl sections are better, but there’s no way I’d go back for upper bowl tix.
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
3,971
2,685
209 at the Van
Guess I expected more in line with the minor league baseball equivalent, and it just wasn’t. Honestly, I was more put off by the seats. Even the guy next to me commented how they “weren’t meant for normal sized people”. I don’t know if the seats in the lower bowl sections are better, but there’s no way I’d go back for upper bowl tix.
I’m 6 1, 230 and the seats are fine by me. 6 3 and 250 is gonna be tight in just about every arena.
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
3,971
2,685
209 at the Van
Idk if Simon gave some more responsibilities to the assistants or he finally realized playing like it’s 1988 wasn’t the answer, but the Griffs have been playing completely differently the last few games. More puck possession style with creative plays and less dump and chase. He’s done this before but always went back to his old ways after a couple weeks. Still want hon fired as it took him far too long to figure this out.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,268
16,634
Is this a grudge match for Ned? Facing off against the kid that got him yeeted from Carolina.
 

Kingpin794

Smart A** In A Jersey
Apr 25, 2012
3,971
2,685
209 at the Van
Idk if Simon gave some more responsibilities to the assistants or he finally realized playing like it’s 1988 wasn’t the answer, but the Griffs have been playing completely differently the last few games. More puck possession style with creative plays and less dump and chase. He’s done this before but always went back to his old ways after a couple weeks. Still want hon fired as it took him far too long to figure this out.
Lol I jinxed them
 
Oct 18, 2006
14,668
2,257
I really hate the fact Eeemil Vero sits so Steven freaking Kampfer can play. The situation in GR stinks.

Lethemon got the start and faced 41 shots (welcome) in a 4-3 OT loss.

Johansson scored, 8 points in 13 games. McIsaac an assist but he probably doesn’t count anymore unfortunately.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,268
16,634
I really hate the fact Eeemil Vero sits so Steven freaking Kampfer can play. The situation in GR stinks.

Lethemon got the start and faced 41 shots (welcome) in a 4-3 OT loss.

Johansson scored, 8 points in 13 games. McIsaac an assist but he probably doesn’t count anymore unfortunately.
Steve name dropped him when asked about Ed in his presser yesterday. Along with Albert and Viro.
 
Oct 18, 2006
14,668
2,257
Steve name dropped him when asked about Ed in his presser yesterday. Along with Albert and Viro.
Okay good, that’s promising. I’ve always liked him. Early days I was a big fan. Thought he’d be this rock solid, a degree of offensive ability 2nd pairing guy. But the injuries washed away critical development years.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
16,717
11,285
I really hate the fact Eeemil Vero sits so Steven freaking Kampfer can play. The situation in GR stinks.

Lethemon got the start and faced 41 shots (welcome) in a 4-3 OT loss.

Johansson scored, 8 points in 13 games. McIsaac an assist but he probably doesn’t count anymore unfortunately.

Just because Kampfer isn't an NHL player doesn't mean he isn't better in the AHL than Viro. The AHL is a developmental league, but it isn't only that, they are still trying to win. Plenty of AHL vets are better than prospects at the AHL level, which is why they play.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,268
16,634
Just because Kampfer isn't an NHL player doesn't mean he isn't better in the AHL than Viro. The AHL is a developmental league, but it isn't only that, they are still trying to win. Plenty of AHL vets are better than prospects at the AHL level, which is why they play.
Honestly, the Wings would be best served by buying GR and dialing up the development aspect. Tie should always go to the development of the kid. If kids are gonna get screwed over by deferring to vets at the NHL level at least let them have the AHL. Which would probably also preclude having a coach that peaked as an AHL checking line banger. Get a skill guy or top shelf defenseman in there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Filppula

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
16,717
11,285
Honestly, the Wings would be best served by buying GR and dialing up the development aspect. Tie should always go to the development of the kid. If kids are gonna get screwed over by deferring to vets at the NHL level at least let them have the AHL. Which would probably also preclude having a coach that peaked as an AHL checking line banger. Get a skill guy or top shelf defenseman in there.

Thing is, the AHL isn't just a development league. They are still trying to do as well as they can, and Viro hasn't played well by the stats, and may not be ready for lots of ice time yet.
 
Oct 18, 2006
14,668
2,257
It's called competition and it won't get any easier than this if Viro wants to be an NHLer.
I’m not going to lie and say I’ve been watching GR, but he’s started to produce lately, just seems terribly unlucky to be sitting when maybe it’s clicked.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,268
16,634
Thing is, the AHL isn't just a development league. They are still trying to do as well as they can, and Viro hasn't played well by the stats, and may not be ready for lots of ice time yet.
I get what it is (though it does have a rule that a certain number of players should be developmental level). I'm saying change that. There is no reason the focus can't shift from win the Calder Cup at all costs and maybe include kids to develop prospects as well as you can in an environment of competitive hockey.

The interests of prospects you've invested draft capital in should always come before the career minor leaguer that has no upside. There is a veteran roster player upper limit. That doesn't mean we should dress at least that many.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reddwit

DTR

Registered User
Dec 13, 2021
648
934
GR needs a new coach desperately. Especially when it’s entirely possible we will have Mazur, Lombardi and Kasper there next season, along with an ample amount of defensive prospects and Cossa to boot.
 

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,675
2,822
I get what it is (though it does have a rule that a certain number of players should be developmental level). I'm saying change that. There is no reason the focus can't shift from win the Calder Cup at all costs and maybe include kids to develop prospects as well as you can in an environment of competitive hockey.

The interests of prospects you've invested draft capital in should always come before the career minor leaguer that has no upside. There is a veteran roster player upper limit. That doesn't mean we should dress at least that many.

A team absolutely should ensure that a promising young player should get sufficient playing time to develop. A team should also ensure that a promising young player in the minors has enough veterans on the ice to help his development.

Old veterans are useful. They can help kids with their positioning, if by nothing else than providing an example of where to be. Gap control, playing 2 on 1/3 on 1/3 on 2; effective exits and entries and more can be shown to the kids by veterans who know what to do but aren't quick enough to do it at an NHL level any more. Further, a young player will develop better pro habits when his partner does smart things most of the time than when he has to constantly cover for his partner's mistakes.

If a team plays a bunch of kids that don't know what they're doing, then in what way are they developing? Bad situations and bad teammates breed bad habits. Where a defenceman should be positioned when his partner is counted on to do his job won't be where he'll be most effective when his partner is running around out of place.

Similarly wingers, to develop best offensively, need playmaking centers and to develop best defensively need to learn what they are supposed to do when their linemates are where one would expect an NHL linemate to be. Is a scoring winger going to learn by success by going to the right place on the ice when his center isn't good enough to get the puck there?

The Griffins are a bad team. Barring some miracle they aren't making the playoffs. Do we really want them to be even worse by throwing the veterans away and playing guys who aren't ready to play at that level?

The Griffins d-core consists, at the top of the lineup, of:

-Simon Edvinsson, who just turned 20 and is in his first season in North America
-33 year old veteran Steven Kampfer
-22 year old Jared McIsaac who, with his initial pro season being almost completely wiped out with covid, is actually only playing in his second full professional season
-just turned 22 year old Albert Johansson, in his first North American season

That is a young, inexperienced core and includes two players adjusting to the North American game and ice size. I think the Wings are right to be playing a veteran in their top 4 rather than weaken the team even further.

The Griffins' 5th busiest defenceman this season has been 3rd year pro Wyatt Newporter, followed by 32 year old Brian Lashoff who as I write this has played in 34 of the team's 54 games. (per hockeydb) with 20 year old Vero, in his first North American season, 7th. Vero also got some time in the ECHL. The Griffins also have Donovan Sebrango, freshly turned 21 years old, who played 23 games with Toledo and now has also gotten 23 games with the Griffins.

The number of veteran skaters permitted to play in any game is severely limited and this is a young, inexperienced group of defencemen on a bad team. Giving two veterans some games (often with only one of them in the lineup) seems better to me than playing kids who aren't really ready yet.

My only question about Vero's use would be whether it would have been better to give him more time in the ECHL this season. On balance though I think he's good enough to benefit more from being a bottom pair/fillin guy in Grand Rapids than being in the ECHL.
 
Last edited:

Fil Larkmanthanasiou

Registered User
Feb 10, 2018
1,138
625
A team absolutely should ensure that a promising young player should get sufficient playing time to develop. A team should also ensure that a promising young player in the minors has enough veterans on the ice to help his development.

Old veterans are useful. They can help kids with their positioning, if by nothing else than providing an example of where to be. Gap control, playing 2 on 1/3 on 1/3 on 2; effective exits and entries and more can be shown to the kids by veterans who know what to do but aren't quick enough to do it at an NHL level any more.

If a team plays a bunch of kids that don't know what they're doing, then in what way are they developing? Bad situations and bad teammates breed bad habits. Where a defenceman should be positioned when his partner is counted on to do his job won't be where he'll be most effective when his partner is running around out of place.

Similarly wingers, to develop best offensively, need playmaking centers and to develop best defensively need to learn what they are supposed to do when their linemates are where one would expect an NHL linemate to be. Is a scoring winger going to learn by success by going to the right place on the ice when his center isn't good enough to get the puck there?

The Griffins are a bad team. Barring some miracle they aren't making the playoffs. Do we really want them to be even worse by throwing the veterans away and playing guys who aren't ready to play at that level?

The Griffins d-core consists, at the top of the lineup, of:

-Simon Edvinsson, who just turned 20 and is in his first season in North America
-33 year old veteran Steven Kampfer
-22 year old Jared McIsaac who, with his initial pro season being almost completely wiped out with covid, is actually only playing in his second full professional season
-just turned 22 year old Albert Johansson, in his first North American season

That is a young, inexperienced core and includes two players adjusting to the North American game and ice size. I think the Wings are right to be playing a veteran in their top 4 rather than weaken the team even further.

The Griffins' 5th busiest defenceman this season has been 32 year old Brian Lashoff who as I write this has played in 34 of the team's 54 games. (per hockeydb) 6th and 7th are 20 year old Vero (in his first North American season) and newly turned 21 year old Cross Hanas, in his first professional season, both of whom have gotten into 30 of the team's 54 games, with Vero also getting some time in the ECHL.

The number of veteran skaters permitted to play in any game is severely limited and this is a young, inexperienced group of defencemen on a bad team. Giving two veterans some games (often with only one of them in the lineup) seems better to me than playing kids who aren't really ready yet.

My only question about Vero's use would be whether it would have been better to give him more time in the ECHL this season. On balance though I think he's good enough to benefit more from being a bottom pair/fillin guy in Grand Rapids than being in the ECHL.
Hanas is a forward and you didn't include Sebrango
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
20,841
16,624
Sweden
I get what it is (though it does have a rule that a certain number of players should be developmental level). I'm saying change that. There is no reason the focus can't shift from win the Calder Cup at all costs and maybe include kids to develop prospects as well as you can in an environment of competitive hockey.

The interests of prospects you've invested draft capital in should always come before the career minor leaguer that has no upside. There is a veteran roster player upper limit. That doesn't mean we should dress at least that many.
I think there's a real debate to be had about how well things are being handled in GR, but at what point do they stop being kids who should be prioritized and start being players competing for jobs under the same performance-based system as anyone else?
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
32,367
13,376
Tampere, Finland
A team absolutely should ensure that a promising young player should get sufficient playing time to develop. A team should also ensure that a promising young player in the minors has enough veterans on the ice to help his development.

Old veterans are useful. They can help kids with their positioning, if by nothing else than providing an example of where to be. Gap control, playing 2 on 1/3 on 1/3 on 2; effective exits and entries and more can be shown to the kids by veterans who know what to do but aren't quick enough to do it at an NHL level any more. Further, a young player will develop better pro habits when his partner does smart things most of the time than when he has to constantly cover for his partner's mistakes.

If a team plays a bunch of kids that don't know what they're doing, then in what way are they developing? Bad situations and bad teammates breed bad habits. Where a defenceman should be positioned when his partner is counted on to do his job won't be where he'll be most effective when his partner is running around out of place.

Similarly wingers, to develop best offensively, need playmaking centers and to develop best defensively need to learn what they are supposed to do when their linemates are where one would expect an NHL linemate to be. Is a scoring winger going to learn by success by going to the right place on the ice when his center isn't good enough to get the puck there?

The Griffins are a bad team. Barring some miracle they aren't making the playoffs. Do we really want them to be even worse by throwing the veterans away and playing guys who aren't ready to play at that level?

The Griffins d-core consists, at the top of the lineup, of:

-Simon Edvinsson, who just turned 20 and is in his first season in North America
-33 year old veteran Steven Kampfer
-22 year old Jared McIsaac who, with his initial pro season being almost completely wiped out with covid, is actually only playing in his second full professional season
-just turned 22 year old Albert Johansson, in his first North American season

That is a young, inexperienced core and includes two players adjusting to the North American game and ice size. I think the Wings are right to be playing a veteran in their top 4 rather than weaken the team even further.

The Griffins' 5th busiest defenceman this season has been 3rd year pro Wyatt Newporter, followed by 32 year old Brian Lashoff who as I write this has played in 34 of the team's 54 games. (per hockeydb) with 20 year old Vero, in his first North American season, 7th. Vero also got some time in the ECHL. The Griffins also have Donovan Sebrango, freshly turned 21 years old, who played 23 games with Toledo and now has also gotten 23 games with the Griffins.

The number of veteran skaters permitted to play in any game is severely limited and this is a young, inexperienced group of defencemen on a bad team. Giving two veterans some games (often with only one of them in the lineup) seems better to me than playing kids who aren't really ready yet.

My only question about Vero's use would be whether it would have been better to give him more time in the ECHL this season. On balance though I think he's good enough to benefit more from being a bottom pair/fillin guy in Grand Rapids than being in the ECHL.

Just like this. I could have written that, but thankfully you saved my time.

Vets are needed, I suspected that defence to be effective, because at this season there was just too many young guys. And also that ineptude coach.

Hope they will bring 2 Abbotts with Wallinder there for next season.
 

SirloinUB

Registered User
Aug 20, 2010
4,960
2,526
Canada
How is Elmer Soderblom doing?

I am not sure it is fair to say his numbers are underwhelming but it is disappointing to see him producing the same or less in the AHL than he did in the NHL.
 

Killerjas

Registered User
Mar 6, 2017
3,281
2,115
Netherlands
You guys reckon Cossa will get called? He has been playing very well, but I feel that he should maybe stay in the ECHL to get more consistent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Ad

Ad