Goalie controversy thread

[Reality Czech]

The Blues are winning now so I think it's up to Binnington. Should he continue to stink I think the Blues will consider a buyout. That would reduce his cap hit to 2,13 millions the next season and 633k the two following seasons until 2025. That's a nice window to win. Binnington's NTC is also modified from 2024 so that might get him to cooperate if the Blues can find a deal while retaining salary. I don't think a team would be willing his full anchor of a contract unless the Blues agree to take another bad contract in return.

But I agree. Husso is due for a raise and I'm not sure the Blues necessarily want to spend that much on goaltending.

As the others said, I don't think a buyout is likely so the question is how much would we have to pay Husso to stay? I imagine he'll at least want to test the market unless we make it worth his while not to.

 

[Hinterland]

As the others said, I don't think a buyout is likely so the question is how much would we have to pay Husso to stay? I imagine he'll at least want to test the market unless we make it worth his while not to.

If Binnington doesn't get better the buyout will be on the table at the very least. The Blues are good enough to win titles now but spending 6 mio. on a bad goalie is a deep hole to crawl out of every year and Binnington has never come close to justifying his contract. The guy will turn 29 in July and his contract runs through 2027. Do the Blues really wanna waste a roster spot and 6 millions through 2027 with the team the they currently have? Or do they expect the guy to justify his contract on the other side of 30? I don't know, man. If I'm Doug Armstrong, I'd want so see some daylight at the very least and I'd want to see it soon. Binnington is trending in the wrong direction ever since the cup and Armstrong can't just sit and watch this continue. I don't think he can afford to.

 

[Ridge1982]

"Binny didn't win the cup, the team did. "

Apparently you didn't watch the first period in Boston Game 7.

It would've gotten out of hand.

 

[Reality Czech]

If Binnington doesn't get better the buyout will be on the table at the very least. The Blues are good enough to win titles now but spending 6 mio. on a bad goalie is a deep hole to crawl out of every year and Binnington has never come close to justifying his contract. The guy will turn 29 in July and his contract runs through 2027. Do the Blues really wanna waste a roster spot and 6 millions through 2027 with the team the they currently have? Or do they expect the guy to justify his contract on the other side of 30? I don't know, man. If I'm Doug Armstrong, I'd want so see some daylight at the very least and I'd want to see it soon. Binnington is trending in the wrong direction ever since the cup and Armstrong can't just sit and watch this continue. I don't think he can afford to.

It's the first year of his contract, so even if he is bought out at some point I can't imagine them even considering it until year 4 or so. Binner isn't a waste of a roster spot, but it's kind of unlucky that Husso decided to show his talents this year which puts us in a tough spot. Even if Binnington hasn't lived up to his salary this year, he's got plenty of time to find his game. I just don't wanna lose a promising Husso for nothing, but it may be unavoidable.

 

[Hinterland]

It's the first year of his contract, so even if he is bought out at some point I can't imagine them even considering it until year 4 or so. Binner isn't a waste of a roster spot, but it's kind of unlucky that Husso decided to show his talents this year which puts us in a tough spot. Even if Binnington hasn't lived up to his salary this year, he's got plenty of time to find his game. I just don't wanna lose a promising Husso for nothing, but it may be unavoidable.

If the trend continues and Binnington continues to suck while Husso stops everything then the buyout has to be on the table. That's just facts. I've said it before but one last thing I'd try with Binnington is a reset. Lean on Husso while he's hot and call up Lindgren if he needs a breather. That gives Binnington more practice time and an opportunity to clean up his game. It has helped other goalies before. If that doesn't solve Binnington, then he needs to go. He's trending in the wrong direction and with his contract, it has to be stopped one way or the other. It's 6 mio of wasted cap and it may stop the Blues from keeping Husso as well. Again, I don't think Armstrong can afford to just sit on his ass and watch this continue.

 

[Ridge1982]

There are actually people installing a #1 goaltender who hasn't even won a road game this year. A lot of hate for our legendary Cup winner of 31 months ago though, so you know the takes are hot and fresh.

It's ridiculous.

Some of these folks don't deserve 2019.

 

[Reality Czech]

If the trend continues and Binnington continues to suck while Husso stops everything then the buyout has to be on the table. That's just facts. I've said it before but one last thing I'd try with Binnington is a reset. Lean on Husso while he's hot and call up Lindgren if he needs a breather. That gives Binnington more practice time and an opportunity to clean up his game. It has helped other goalies before. If that doesn't solve Binnington, then he needs to go. He's trending in the wrong direction and with his contract, it has to be stopped one way or the other. It's 6 mio of wasted cap and it may stop the Blues from keeping Husso as well. Again, I don't think Armstrong can afford to just sit on his ass and watch this continue.

Considering where we are in the standings and how the team is playing, I doubt there is any urgency. I don't think the situation is as critical as you do, I am curious to see how Binnington responds after seeing Husso outplay him consistently.

 

[Stealth JD]

I’d give Husso 3 x $3M and put a deadline on it; expecting it to be as good or better of a situation than he’s going to find in free agency. At that point, the Blues will be locked in for the next three years for under $10 million on goaltending, which is about average when looking across the league. That gives Hofer three years to develop and steal a job.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I never cease to be amazed at the wild projections that are made based on one or two dozen games. Why does Husso's last year not matter any more? Binnington isn't a Vezina favorite, but he's played just fine as a starter, and he's now hit a rough patch. He hasn't played terribly, just below average. But there's every reason to expect him to play through it and be an adequate starter again. At worst, he's an important part of the tandem. How on earth are we supposed to feel comfortable with Husso as the "starter" based on a dozen games this year.

Its awesome that he's playing well. His NHL career was in jeopardy of crib death if he didn't turn things around from last season. Good for him. But good grief, he hasn't even ever tried to play a starter's load, let alone showed that he can play at a high level doing so. We're talking about buying out Binnington?!

A team needs two solid goaltenders. The Blues didn't have that last year. Thankfully, this year they do.

 

[Joshuar56]

I never cease to be amazed at the wild projections that are made based on one or two dozen games. Why does Husso's last year not matter any more? Binnington isn't a Vezina favorite, but he's played just fine as a starter, and he's now hit a rough patch. He hasn't played terribly, just below average. But there's every reason to expect him to play through it and be an adequate starter again. At worst, he's an important part of the tandem. How on earth are we supposed to feel comfortable with Husso as the "starter" based on a dozen games this year.

Its awesome that he's playing well. His NHL career was in jeopardy of crib death if he didn't turn things around from last season. Good for him. But good grief, he hasn't even ever tried to play a starter's load, let alone showed that he can play at a high level doing so. We're talking about buying out Binnington?!

A team needs two solid goaltenders. The Blues didn't have that last year. Thankfully, this year they do.

It's not just one rough patch with Binnington, he was pretty average the last two years, and he's been awful in the playoffs the last two years. I'm sure he'll get his opportunities to turn it around, but right now Husso has earned a larger portion of the starts.

 

[Reality Czech]

I’d give Husso 3 x $3M and put a deadline on it; expecting it to be as good or better of a situation than he’s going to find in free agency. At that point, the Blues will be locked in for the next three years for under $10 million on goaltending, which is about average when looking across the league. That gives Hofer three years to develop and steal a job.

I was thinking along similar lines. We'll have to give him a substantial offer to not at least test free agency. Maybe he would accept it if the Blues offered assurances that he'll be given a chance to start if he deserves it, but it all depends on how badly he wants to see what other offers are out there. I imagine he will test UFA if he continues to perform as well as he has this year.

I never cease to be amazed at the wild projections that are made based on one or two dozen games. Why does Husso's last year not matter any more? Binnington isn't a Vezina favorite, but he's played just fine as a starter, and he's now hit a rough patch. He hasn't played terribly, just below average. But there's every reason to expect him to play through it and be an adequate starter again. At worst, he's an important part of the tandem. How on earth are we supposed to feel comfortable with Husso as the "starter" based on a dozen games this year.

Its awesome that he's playing well. His NHL career was in jeopardy of crib death if he didn't turn things around from last season. Good for him. But good grief, he hasn't even ever tried to play a starter's load, let alone showed that he can play at a high level doing so. We're talking about buying out Binnington?!

A team needs two solid goaltenders. The Blues didn't have that last year. Thankfully, this year they do.

In fairness, it's only one person who brought up the buyout thing. That isn't even a remote possibility right now. However, Binnington's performance in the last year and a half have not been encouraging and we've got a young guy who looks like he's figured it all out. It makes sense to give Husso more playing time for now and see where it goes. I know we shouldn't get too carried away, but Husso is playing like a legit boss right now and it would be a shame to see him leave as a UFA.

 

[TruBlu]

We should probably look at moving Tarasenko in the offseason to free up cap to hold on to Husso. I'm not sure Binnington will be the starter next year with his play and Husso's. Just makes that contract Binny was handed for his "cup run" so bad.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We should probably look at moving Tarasenko in the offseason to free up cap to hold on to Husso. I'm not sure Binnington will be the starter next year with his play and Husso's. Just makes that contract Binny was handed for his "cup run" so bad.

The only thing bad about his contract is the length. Combine that with the fact there was no one at the time as a plan B makes it even more of a necessity signing. Husso was an absolute mess, Hofer and Ellis were and are still years away. And you should never trust the UFA goalie market.

 

[TruBlu]

The only thing bad about his contract is the length. Combine that with the fact there was no one at the time as a plan B makes it even more of a necessity signing. Husso was an absolute mess, Hofer and Ellis were and are still years away. And you should never trust the UFA goalie market.

We've done pretty good with the goalie market.

 

[Reality Czech]

The only thing bad about his contract is the length. Combine that with the fact there was no one at the time as a plan B makes it even more of a necessity signing. Husso was an absolute mess, Hofer and Ellis were and are still years away. And you should never trust the UFA goalie market.

Yeah, the timing kind of screwed us along with some factors outside of our control. If we had had two solid years to judge Binnington without covid breaks and bubbles, then we might have chosen to go a different route but there was no indication until this year that Husso would be anything more than average. Army saw a chance to lock down the starting goalie position and I'm guessing that he had to go a bit longer than he would have preferred to dissuade Binnington from testing the open market.

Let's hope that Binner can re-discover his game rather than becoming the next Matt Murray, but it's probably near impossible to play hardball with a young goalie that just won a Cup.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We've done pretty good with the goalie market.

Elliott was the last Free Agent signing that worked out for us. And if you look at the free agent class of last off season there really wasn't anyone who would be better than Binnington except Ullmark.

Grubs has been absolute garbage this year, signed for the same length and 100k less than Binnington.

Holtby is having a career resurgence, but, I wouldn't have taken that flyer on him after multiple years of sub .900 save %

Freddie Andersson has been good.

Outside of those four there really isn't many other options. And if we don't sign anyone we go into this season with Husso as starter and one of Ellis or Hofer as backup. At that time that sounded like we were wishing to be bottom of the league.

 

[Robb_K]

I never cease to be amazed at the wild projections that are made based on one or two dozen games. Why does Husso's last year not matter any more? Binnington isn't a Vezina favorite, but he's played just fine as a starter, and he's now hit a rough patch. He hasn't played terribly, just below average. But there's every reason to expect him to play through it and be an adequate starter again. At worst, he's an important part of the tandem. How on earth are we supposed to feel comfortable with Husso as the "starter" based on a dozen games this year.

Its awesome that he's playing well. His NHL career was in jeopardy of crib death if he didn't turn things around from last season. Good for him. But good grief, he hasn't even ever tried to play a starter's load, let alone showed that he can play at a high level doing so. We're talking about buying out Binnington?!

A team needs two solid goaltenders. The Blues didn't have that last year. Thankfully, this year they do.

I agree with this. It's way too early to crown Husso our top spot permanently, and to assume that this slump Binnington is in is the level he will play for the rest of his career.

 

[TruBlu]

Binnington hasn't hit a rough patch he's been dropping every year since the cup. He's not a bad goalie, but he's league average, and he was handed a bad contract on the premise that he was our goalie during the cup run. Husso, on the other hand, has been trending up. I'm excited to see what happens, but I think Binny's contract is going to bury our ability to improve in some areas.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

Being doubted and considered an afterthought fueled Binny before. It's not as if he's reading any of this, but professional athletes hear the whispers and either elevate or fold. I fully expect the former from Binnington.
I don't need to see a guy who's in the top 7-10 in every single major statistical category. I just want the guy who's not nervous, shows up when it matters most and makes the saves he's supposed to and comes up with some that he shouldn't. I'll wait until this season is in the books before worrying about his contract and what to do with it and how to proceed with Husso if he continues to improve.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It's not just one rough patch with Binnington, he was pretty average the last two years, and he's been awful in the playoffs the last two years. I'm sure he'll get his opportunities to turn it around, but right now Husso has earned a larger portion of the starts.

"pretty average" is just fine from him the past couple years. He looked strong in the first game vs Colorado. I think the team mentally looked defeated between losing that game where Binnington tried to steal it, and then Faulk getting knocked out (and Perron being out with the protocol). I wouldn't say Binnington was the reason they lost the series, by a long shot. I'm not sure there is a goalie in the league who could have played well enough to overcome the gap between the teams when the Blues were that short-handed.

Anyway, I totally agree that Husso deserves more starts. I bet they go close to 50/50 split. He's earned that. But we have people discussing how to buy-out Binnington, which is a peak that is not even visible from what Husso has proven so far. I wager before the season is over, Binnington will be looking like the better option again, and will get the starts in the playoffs. But if not, Jordan of all people should know that a back-up can take the reigns and lead a team to success.

My point is that there is a big difference between playing at a high level with the starter's load the Blues put on their top goalie's shoulders vs playing well in nicely spaced, curated starting opportunities (as Husso has had to this point). Can we just enjoy his improvement and the Blues' wins without imagining it into a more significant development than it is?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

We've done pretty good with the goalie market.

You have a short memory. There were many years the Blues were waiting to get a solid goalie answer. Legace, Mason, Halak, Miller, Elliot, Allen. UFAs, trades, home-grown...it was a long frustrating path before Binnington. (I could go back further and the list only gets sadder.) There were several post-seasons where the team was good enough to go a lot farther if they could have equal goalie play vs their opponent. Binnington broke that trend. Maybe he won't play to that level in the playoffs again, but he's at least proven he's capable of it. His 'mediocre' play the last couple years was plenty good to get the team into the post-season, so obviously it wasn't that bad. And last year he did it with no viable back-up as Husso was entirely unreliable.

I agree with the posts above talking about giving Husso a 3 year deal. Its no problem if he ends up winning the starting job, but paid as the back-up. I bet Edmonton would be happy to have Binnington this minute. He is movable if need be.

 

[TruBlu]

"pretty average" is just fine from him the past couple years. He looked strong in the first game vs Colorado. I think the team mentally looked defeated between losing that game where Binnington tried to steal it, and then Faulk getting knocked out (and Perron being out with the protocol). I wouldn't say Binnington was the reason they lost the series, by a long shot. I'm not sure there is a goalie in the league who could have played well enough to overcome the gap between the teams when the Blues were that short-handed.

Anyway, I totally agree that Husso deserves more starts. I bet they go close to 50/50 split. He's earned that. But we have people discussing how to buy-out Binnington, which is a peak that is not even visible from what Husso has proven so far. I wager before the season is over, Binnington will be looking like the better option again, and will get the starts in the playoffs. But if not, Jordan of all people should know that a back-up can take the reigns and lead a team to success.

My point is that there is a big difference between playing at a high level with the starter's load the Blues put on their top goalie's shoulders vs playing well in nicely spaced, curated starting opportunities (as Husso has had to this point). Can we just enjoy his improvement and the Blues' wins without imagining it into a more significant development than it is?

If we were going to go with a 50/50 split in goalie going forward then we were better off keeping Allen. Binny has had nowhere near the load Allen did when his numbers dropped.

 

[TruBlu]

You have a short memory. There were many years the Blues were waiting to get a solid goalie answer. Legace, Mason, Halak, Miller, Elliot, Allen. UFAs, trades, home-grown...it was a long frustrating path before Binnington. (I could go back further and the list only gets sadder.) There were several post-seasons where the team was good enough to go a lot farther if they could have equal goalie play vs their opponent. Binnington broke that trend. Maybe he won't play to that level in the playoffs again, but he's at least proven he's capable of it. His 'mediocre' play the last couple years was plenty good to get the team into the post-season, so obviously it wasn't that bad. And last year he did it with no viable back-up as Husso was entirely unreliable.

I agree with the posts above talking about giving Husso a 3 year deal. Its no problem if he ends up winning the starting job, but paid as the back-up. I bet Edmonton would be happy to have Binnington this minute. He is movable if need be.

Halak, Elliot, Allen were all good goalies...certainly no worse than Binnington. Binnington is doing barely better in stats than Allen while playing on a team that, I would say, is much better defensively than Montreal.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If we were going to go with a 50/50 split in goalie going forward then we were better off keeping Allen. Binny has had nowhere near the load Allen did when his numbers dropped.

You're responding as though a 50/50 split to benefit from Husso's hot streak and Binnington's poor patch would project forward forever. Its just a short-term adjustment to the tandem, depending on how they're playing. This discussion last season would have been preposterous because Husso was stinking and giving away goals on the first shot. Now the Blues have 2 legit goalies to work into the schedule. Why does the subtext of this goalie discussion seem to include an assumption that Husso will keep playing at this level long-term? That seems highly improbable. But he can still contribute a lot, and the situation for this immediate season looks great.

 

[TruBlu]

You're responding as though a 50/50 split to benefit from Husso's hot streak and Binnington's poor patch would project forward forever. Its just a short-term adjustment to the tandem, depending on how they're playing. This discussion last season would have been preposterous because Husso was stinking and giving away goals on the first shot. Now the Blues have 2 legit goalies to work into the schedule. Why does the subtext of this goalie discussion seem to include an assumption that Husso will keep playing at this level long-term? That seems highly improbable. But he can still contribute a lot, and the situation for this immediate season looks great.

Why would you assume that Binnington is in a poor patch? He's dropped every year he's been here. Maybe it is possible that he's just average.