Goalie controversy thread

[Brian39]

Just because Binnington made a couple great saves last night, that doesn't excuse him letting in the bad goals... 5 goals is 5 goals. He's turning into Jake Allen 2.0
People always made excuses for him because he'd stand on his head for a period.

Please provide a breakdown about the bad goals he let in. It's winderful that you can count to 5 and confirm that the number is in fact 5. That doesn't support an argument that he let in bad goals. Which of the 5 goals were soft?

 

[Reality Czech]

Just because Binnington made a couple great saves last night, that doesn't excuse him letting in the bad goals... 5 goals is 5 goals. He's turning into Jake Allen 2.0
People always made excuses for him because he'd stand on his head for a period.

And which goals would you classify as "bad" from the last game? I just re-watched the highlights and there was only 1 goal I could say Binner "might have" stopped, but it was still a one-timer from Rodriguez at close range. If one wants to nit pick, they could say he could have stopped Rust's 2nd goal but neither can objectively be called a "soft goal."

So, what exactly are you talking about? He was our best player against Pittsburgh, and some people are acting like Husso or Lindgren would have singlehandedly won us the game? C'mon man.

 

[Reality Czech]

As an NHL starter with such a salary you're expected to make not just routine saves but also some more difficult big saves once in a while. Binnington doesn't do that and if he does, in most cases, he gave up two bad ones before. The Blues may be the easiest team to play behind and with very few exceptions during the Yeo era they've been easy to play behind since Hitchcock. Blues are defending the slot so well even random AHL goalies can put up great numbers. The only one who can't is Binnington. Had one good year and is now struggling once he got figured out.

Binnington doesn't ever make big saves? Are you for real?

 

[Brian39]

And which goals would you classify as "bad" from the last game? I just re-watched the highlights and there was only 1 goal I could say Binner "might have" stopped, but it was still a one-timer from Rodriguez at close range. If one wants to nit pick, they could say he could have stopped Rust's 2nd goal but neither can objectively be called a "soft goal."

So, what exactly are you talking about? He was our best player against Pittsburgh, and some people are acting like Husso or Lindgren would have singlehandedly won us the game? C'mon man.

There isn't a goalie in the league that would have played that any different than Binner did. Human reaction time literally isn't fast enough to react to a shot that hard from that location. You can't predict the shot location off a one-timer the way you can with a wrist shot. It is not feasible to have active hands, track the puck off the blade and move your hand toward the shot location in time to make a reaction save on that type of play. The only option there is to be square to the release point, come out to cut off the angle and make your butterfly as big as possible while also eliminating holes. Binner did all of those things. He was perfectly on his angle, he was fully outside the crease, he was upright/balanced and his butterfly was wide. At even strength, a goalie can push 2-4 feet forward outside the crease and rely on his team to take away passing lanes. On the PK, you can't be that aggressive.

That play gets executed perfectly by the passer and shooter pretty rarely. Oftentimes the shooter either doesn't get 100% velocity on it or he doesn't place it perfectly. It was executed perfectly on that goal and there is nothing a goalie could do on that. The only way that shot doesn't go in is if a goalie happened to be off his angle to the right and gets lucky that the puck doesn't go to the left. Absolutely not what you want your goalie intentionally doing.

The save selection used by every goalie in the league for that shot is to do your best to get square, get large and seal holes. That is a "play the percentages" save selection for every goalie in the league. Binner effectively executed every aspect of of his save selection, but the shooter executed the perfect shot.

 

[Reality Czech]

There isn't a goalie in the league that would have played that any different than Binner did. Human reaction time literally isn't fast enough to react to a shot that hard from that location. You can't predict the shot location off a one-timer the way you can with a wrist shot. It is not feasible to have active hands, track the puck off the blade and move your hand toward the shot location in time. The only option there is to be square to the release point, come out to cut off the angle and make your butterfly as big as possible while also eliminating holes. Binner did all of those things. He was perfectly on his angle, he was fully outside the crease, he was upright/balanced and his butterfly was wide. At even strength, a goalie can push 2-4 feet forward outside the crease and rely on his team to take away passing lanes. On the PK, you can't be that aggressive.

That play gets executed perfectly by the passer and shooter pretty rarely. Oftentimes the shooter either doesn't get 100% velocity on it or he doesn't place it perfectly. It was executed perfectly on that goal and there is nothing a goalie could do on that. The only way that shot doesn't go in is if a goalie happened to be off his angle to the right and gets lucky that the puck doesn't go to the left. Absolutely not what you want your goalie intentionally doing.

The save selection used by every goalie in the league for that shot is to do your best to get square, get large and seal holes. That is a "play the percentages" save selection for every goalie in the league. Binner effectively executed every aspect of of his save selection, but the shooter executed the perfect shot.

That's why I said "might have" instead of "should have."

Great breakdown, as usual!

 

[TruBlu]

Binnington isn't a bad goalie, but he's certainly no better than Allen, Moose, or pretty much any goalie we've had in the recent past. His numbers have dropped ever since he came into the NHL. I'd be happy to have Halak back at this point.

 

[BlueSeal]

Binnington isn't a bad goalie, but he's certainly no better than Allen, Moose, or pretty much any goalie we've had in the recent past. His numbers have dropped ever since he came into the NHL. I'd be happy to have Halak back at this point.

Binny has been Binny, I have never gotten this argument. He didn't get worse, the team did when players like JayBo left/retired out. There's too much need to shelter on the Blueline - this has generated points but has also opened up scoring chances that wouldn't have been there just a few years ago.

As for Binny not being any better, Binny walked in, stabilized the net and we rolled to a Cup. We don't do that without him, so no, Binny is better than All of them.

Saying THAT...

EVERY Blues Netminder has been better than Allen and every one of them has beaten Allen OUT of his job, including Hutton. Hell, Allen rode in the backseat when we won the Cup. He's a glorified backup at best while a player like Moose, if you catch his hot streak right, is unstoppable.

Come on now.

 

[TruBlu]

Binny has been Binny, I have never gotten this argument. He didn't get worse, the team did when players like JayBo left/retired out. There's too much need to shelter on the Blueline - this has generated points but has also opened up scoring chances that wouldn't have been there just a few years ago.

As for Binny not being any better, Binny walked in, stabilized the net and we rolled to a Cup. We don't do that without him, so no, Binny is better than All of them.

Saying THAT...

EVERY Blues Netminder has been better than Allen and every one of them has beaten Allen OUT of his job, including Hutton. Hell, Allen rode in the backseat when we won the Cup. He's a glorified backup at best while a player like Moose, if you catch his hot streak right, is unstoppable.

Come on now.

It's your story, tell it how you want to. Binny is losing ground and a backup is about to take his spot.

 

[Xerloris]

As an NHL starter with such a salary you're expected to make not just routine saves but also some more difficult big saves once in a while. Binnington doesn't do that and if he does, in most cases, he gave up two bad ones before. The Blues may be the easiest team to play behind and with very few exceptions during the Yeo era they've been easy to play behind since Hitchcock. Blues are defending the slot so well even random AHL goalies can put up great numbers. The only one who can't is Binnington. Had one good year and is now struggling once he got figured out.

You're f***ing joking right? You honestly think if he hadn't been making some pretty spectacular saves that we would have ever had a 2-0 lead against the Pens? I swear to god most hockey fans have no f***ing clue what they're looking at when they see a goalie.

 

[BlueSeal]

It's your story, tell it how you want to. Binny is losing ground and a backup is about to take his spot.

If this is the worst case scenario then the front office is doing something very right. Our goalie depth is insane.

 

[TheDizee]

husso gets start tonight

this team deserves to tank for doing what they did to a 5-0 goaltender with #1 star performances every game

chucky sideburns was the chosen one and the team played hard infront of him. bad coaching by berube

 

[BlueSeal]

husso gets start tonight

this team deserves to tank for doing what they did to a 5-0 goaltender with #1 star performances every game

chucky sideburns was the chosen one and the team played hard infront of him. bad coaching by berube

We’re weighing options and seeing what we got in our goaltending. We know the team will play for Chucky so let’s see how they react when we put Husso in.

If the team in the front isn’t scoring it won’t matter who we put in net. I believe in these guys and our front office.

 

[Joshuar56]

Guess the team just played better in front of Husso tonight...

 

[Louie the Blue]

EVERY Blues Netminder has been better than Allen and every one of them has beaten Allen OUT of his job, including Hutton. Hell, Allen rode in the backseat when we won the Cup. He's a glorified backup at best while a player like Moose, if you catch his hot streak right, is unstoppable.

Come on now.

Chad Johnson did not beat out Allen. I wouldn't count Brodeur or Miller either.

Goalies that I'd argue Allen competed against for playing time were Elliott, Hutton, and Binnington. Halak was blocking Allen's path to the NHL and he really wasn't the goalie Allen was competing with for playing time. Elliott was the goalie blocking his path. Even then, Elliott lost his job twice to Allen (lockout shortened 2012-2013 year until Elliott got over the yips, came back, played well, and Halak got hurt before the series vs the Kings leading to Elliott starting) and 2014-2015 (when Allen was playing better down the stretch leading Hitchock to pull a reversal on his own words on who would start vs the Wild).

Elliott really only beat out Allen once in 2015-2016 when Allen went down to injury in the middle of the season before taking a backseat to Moose due to his play.

Allen also had a very solid stretch in 2016-2017 and pretty much won the series vs the Wild by himself and played fine vs Nashville. 2017-2018 Hutton outplayed him AND should have been getting the starter's load down the stretch.

Allen is more athletic than Elliott but is incredibly streaky and is not as reliant on a system D around him to succeed. He did something Elliott didn't do in the POs, which was put up a a 95.6 save % in a series.

I think Allen could go as far as Elliott did in the postseason being a starter, but would not feel comfortable on relying on him for that role, similar to how Elliott wasn't reliable to be a true starter and wore down with the rest of the team in the 2016 WCF.

 

[Reality Czech]

Binnington isn't a bad goalie, but he's certainly no better than Allen, Moose, or pretty much any goalie we've had in the recent past. His numbers have dropped ever since he came into the NHL. I'd be happy to have Halak back at this point.

Wow, what a horrible take. I thought leading the team to our first Cup in history would earn the guy a little bit more slack, but guess not.

Regardless, Husso has been our best goalie this season and he continued to show that last night.

 

[tfriede2]

Wow, what a horrible take. I thought leading the team to our first Cup in history would earn the guy a little bit more slack, but guess not.

Regardless, Husso has been our best goalie this season and he continued to show that last night.

It’s been 2 seasons since the Cup win. The slack grace period is over. He needs to be better.

 

[Joshuar56]

It’s been 2 seasons since the Cup win. The slack grace period is over. He needs to be better.

This is season 3 post cup run, and his GAA has gone up every year, and his save % has gone down every year. I'll always love him for the cup run, but that doesn't mean the team should stick with him playing below average forever.
His career save % and GAA is now identical to Allen's when he was here.

 

[BlueOil]

As an NHL starter with such a salary you're expected to make not just routine saves but also some more difficult big saves once in a while. Binnington doesn't do that and if he does, in most cases, he gave up two bad ones before. The Blues may be the easiest team to play behind and with very few exceptions during the Yeo era they've been easy to play behind since Hitchcock. Blues are defending the slot so well even random AHL goalies can put up great numbers. The only one who can't is Binnington. Had one good year and is now struggling once he got figured out.

so he doesn't do it...but if he does...it's only when he's already done something bad before hand...so it doesn't matter...because he plays easy minutes on a good team...even unqualified guys can do it...so it can't be that hard...so binny must be bad



i think you might be unqualified to sum this up

 

[Hinterland]

so he doesn't do it...but if he does...it's only when he's already done something bad before hand...so it doesn't matter...because he plays easy minutes on a good team...even unqualified guys can do it...so it can't be that hard...so binny must be bad



i think you might be unqualified to sum this up

You can think whatever you want and I couldn't care less. Fact is, Binnington got a big contract based on just one good year and he's been average to shabby ever since because he got figured out. This is nothing new. We've seen it before. Many goalies stand on their head entering the league but only the really good ones can keep it up for years. Teams do a lot of scouting these days so the more you play, the tougher it gets to stay at the top. Binnington is a good goalie but no starter material. Like it or not but I always said this and he's now consistently getting outperformed by pretty much any other goalie on the Blues...even AHL journeymen like Lindgren.

 

[MissouriMook]

The whole idea of a controversy, as a fan, seems ridiculous to me. I root for the crest on the front way more than the name on the back. Binnington earned the starter’s job three years ago with his superior play. If Husso takes his net because he plays significantly better, then he will be the starter and I will cheer for him as much as I did for Binnington in 2019. Legend bears no fruit today that it does not earn today. I see no controversy in that.

 

[Hrkac Circus]

It will be interesting to see what the Blues do with this depth in goal. Would any teams make a tempting offer for Husso at the trade deadline? Would the Blues dare trade Binnington in the off-season if he had a sub-par playoffs? Lindgren and Hofer both seem like capable backups. And Colton Ellis seems like he’s only a year away.

 

[kcunac]

Who starts vs. Dallas?

 

[Hinterland]

Who starts vs. Dallas?

Korac says Binnington. If that's the case it could easily backfire...

 

[Joshuar56]

Korac says Binnington. If that's the case it could easily backfire...

Dallas's offense is not good, so if Binnington can't play well against them then he needs to sit a while...

 

[finnishflash13]

Dallas's offense is not good, so if Binnington can't play well against them then he needs to sit a while...

Good thing he played really well. You seem to forget the Stars also have some offensive threats (Seguin, Benn, their offensive minded defensemen, etc.).