Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[Micklebot]

The Murray trade and signing really feels like a panic move spurred by Nilsson's health.

I think the team was happy to see how things played out with Hogberg and all the goalie prospects in the system but when it became evident Nilsson was done and they needed to add a vet goalie to transition to the next generation Dorion figured he could roll the dice on Murray retuning to form since he was going to have to lock in a chunk of money on a transitional starter anyways.

I get the logic to the move, I just never liked the execution, Murray was a guy teams seemed to have figured out, we got told the reason for his struggles was that he was substantially changing his mechanics from the moment he arrived, that's a big bet to make on a very high risk situation. We'd have been better off with signing a 35+ guy like Craig Anderson back or Halak, or Mike Smith, and that's saying something.

 

[Sweatred]

Because they were winning right?

Were they a good market prior to getting Kane and Toews and being a perennial cup contender?

Na … they suck now and the
Building is packed … same with PHI , DET etc.

Attendance is linked to winning, but it’s a Ottawa thing to think that 8000 fans is a acceptable.

That’s what makes this market worse than Phoenix.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Na … they suck now and the
Building is packed … same with PHI , DET etc.

Attendance is linked to winning, but it’s a Ottawa thing to think that 8000 fans is a acceptable.

That’s what makes this market worse than Phoenix.

Are you comparing an original six team and a team that came into the league in the 60s to the Ottawa senators?

 

[UglyPuckling]

can you get the logos any bigger. Good post

Besides the humongous Logos (eye sore), I'm also not sure what the point of the post was.

Was it an attempt to justify the signing?

Murray had not played well for a couple of years. It was a big roll of the dice, and the term (contract) did not reflect the gamble that was being undertaken.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Besides the humongous Logos (eye sore), I'm also not sure what the point of the post was.

Was it an attempt to justify the signing?

Murray had not played well for a couple of years. It was a big roll of the dice, and the term (contract) did not reflect the gamble that was being undertaken.

And Murray was rebuilding his game,,, We got him cheap and we signed him to too much term and $. Trading for him is less of an issue than the contract Dorion gave him. Still Groulx paid the price in trypical Dorion fashion.

 

[UglyPuckling]

And Murray was rebuilding his game,,, We got him cheap and we signed him to too much term and $. Trading for him is less of an issue than the contract Dorion gave him. Still Groulx paid the price in trypical Dorion fashion.

My feeling was that if we offered him a one-year show me contract, people wouldn't be complaining. But, its an understatement to say that's not what we did. I'm surprised that anyone even attempts to defend that acquisition.

 

[Sweatred]

Are you comparing an original six team and a team that came into the league in the 60s to the Ottawa senators?

No .. I dont think the average 25 year old in CHI goes to a game because they are an original 6 team… I think they go cause they like hockey and can value the product even though it cost them $25.50 and some nasty traffic jams. That’s what good hockey fans do, they support their team. They are just good hockey fans.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

No .. I dont think the average 25 year old in CHI goes to a game because they are an original 6 team… I think they go cause they like hockey and can value the product even though it cost them $25.50 and some nasty traffic jams. That’s what good hockey fans do, they support their team. They are just good hockey fans.

Their attendance also suffered under the later years of the Bill Wirtz era, just as Ottawa's did under Melnyk, and it did not fully recover until they made the playoffs in 2008-09, something you concede would happen in Ottawa but that we don't sell out now makes us not good fans. Why is it ok for Chicago then?

Chicago Blackhawks yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Chicago Blackhawks of the National Hockey League.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[PlayOn]

Chicago can attract better - they are a great hockey market.


What goalies do you think would have come here ? The idea that PD is trading or signing guys on an Equal footing vs other teams is redicilous .

I don’t love all of Dorion’s moves -
White should be more than enough evidence of that… but I’m not going to criticize the guy comparing him to what attractive markets do, or teams with more than $125 million in revenue can pull off. Let alone better taxes climates or weather.

He’s the small stack at the start of every negotiation with 31 bigger stacks - how many hands can he really be expected to win.

Even worse .. if he whines about not having enough money to sign guys the same people who don’t buy any tickets any erect billboards.

Any exec in the league would rather run Buffalo or Arizona over Ottawa … simply because they have more revenue to work with.

If there was no true #1 star goalie we could acquire, then it’s simple - don’t acquire one. We were in the midst of a rebuild with no expectation to win games. We very easily could have acquired a middling goalie via trade, these guys are available every year. Dorion thought Murray was our starter of the future, that’s why he gave him that contract. During his end of season press conference this year he even said all vets were acquired for character purposes except for one. That was Murray. He was supposed to be part of our core and we picked up a goalie on waivers that has outplayed him.

 

[Sweatred]

If there was no true #1 star goalie we could acquire, then it’s simple - don’t acquire one. We were in the midst of a rebuild with no expectation to win games. We very easily could have acquired a middling goalie via trade, these guys are available every year. Dorion thought Murray was our starter of the future, that’s why he gave him that contract. During his end of season press conference this year he even said all vets were acquired for character purposes except for one. That was Murray. He was supposed to be part of our core and we picked up a goalie on waivers that has outplayed him.

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

 

[Knave]

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

And they're roasting him now for what is clearly one of the worst signings in the entire NHL.

It's his job to make good decisions, not cave to pressure and make dumb moves.

You're giving us a reason he should be fired if what you are saying is true.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

no the fan base would have loved if he went for a 6m D or a 6m forward instead. We would have been a more complete team. Better than showing he has no idea what he is doing when he trades for and signs a goalie who had known injury problems and whose play was already slipping for 6m and put him behind a leaky defence. Not a good fit for Senators or Murray (aside from the $$$) so of course Dotion does it.

Even if Dorion in typical Dorion fashion only gets 3m/4m worth d/f for 6m that still would have been so much better than to see a 6m goalie ride the bench or the press box.

Dorion is a fraud in his current role as GM. And the one he defrauded the most was Eugene lol.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

No .. I dont think the average 25 year old in CHI goes to a game because they are an original 6 team… I think they go cause they like hockey and can value the product even though it cost them $25.50 and some nasty traffic jams. That’s what good hockey fans do, they support their team. They are just good hockey fans.

You're missing the point completely but I'm not surprised

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

This is such a ridiculous argument. You've attempted to eliminate every option with your mental gymnastics and assumptions and landed at the finish line framing it as if Dorion had to trade for and sign Matt Murray. How about the guy that signs the contracts wears it, you already pin every other problem on the fans. It's about as dumb as you pinning the White signing on fans instead of the person that signed the contract. This is nothing more than you being intentionally dishonest to somehow spin it in a way to try to drag the fanbase again.

 

[PlayOn]

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

Where did I even suggest we go with Forsberg and Gus? I said make a trade for an average NHL goalie, which is what Murray has been for us, then you can either develop your own starter or continue searching. I agree we needed to add a goalie and I understood Dorion wanting a goalie that could grow with the team - but no matter how you slice it, based on Murray’s first two years here, it was a mistake. Even Dorion would probably admit that.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

This is such a ridiculous argument. You've attempted to eliminate every option with your mental gymnastics and assumptions and landed at the finish line framing it as if Dorion had to trade for and sign Matt Murray. How about the guy that signs the contracts wears it, you already pin every other problem on the fans. It's about as dumb as you pinning the White signing on fans instead of the person that signed the contract. This is nothing more than you being intentionally dishonest to somehow spin it in a way to try to drag the fanbase again.

I'm surprised he didn't applaud the fanbase. If we had sold out more often perhaps the budget would have been higher thus resulting in White receiving an even worse contract.

 

[StoicSensFan]

I'm glad we haven't moved on from Murray, whether by choice or not. I feel like if the team is able to find a top 6 player and top 4 defenseman, our season still depends on our goalies playing well. Forsberg has played well, but it seems like it's tradition for backup goalies playing above their regular capabilities to fall back down to earth. Murray has proven that he can be an elite goaltender, and he's shown it in flashes over the last two seasons. I hope he can get healthy and stay that way - if not, we're going to be missing a huge piece of the puzzle for the playoffs.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm surprised he didn't applaud the fanbase. If we had sold out more often perhaps the budget would have been higher thus resulting in White receiving an even worse contract.

There is no argument off the table I'd say.

 

[Cosmix]

I'm glad we haven't moved on from Murray, whether by choice or not. I feel like if the team is able to find a top 6 player and top 4 defenseman, our season still depends on our goalies playing well. Forsberg has played well, but it seems like it's tradition for backup goalies playing above their regular capabilities to fall back down to earth. Murray has proven that he can be an elite goaltender, and he's shown it in flashes over the last two seasons. I hope he can get healthy and stay that way - if not, we're going to be missing a huge piece of the puzzle for the playoffs.

Murray has also proven that he is injury prone and cannot be relied upon.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Oh come on … the fan base would have roster Dorion if he went with Forsberg and Gus …

And I bet they offered Markstrom and co a contract.

Your idea that Dorion has to make bad deals and sign bad contracts because he has no other options available is wrong. I’m sorry. But like. It’s wrong.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Murray has also proven that he is injury prone and cannot be relied upon.

True. I'm just worried that we'll lose the opportunity to have a successful playoff goalie if we move on from him.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I dont even remember goaltending being a huge concern in the 2020 offseason. Im pretty sure we were all willing to see what happens and didnt want to sign a declining goalie to a huge contract, not that it should even matter what we think.

 

[Micklebot]

I dont even remember goaltending being a huge concern in the 2020 offseason. Im pretty sure we were all willing to see what happens and didnt want to sign a declining goalie to a huge contract, not that it should even matter what we think.

Pretty much. The expectation was to go into the next year with Nilsson and Hogberg and transition towards one of Gus daccord or Soogard over time as the goalie of the future. Murray trade came out of nowhere though Nilsson's health probably played a role.

We were rebuilding, nobody had expectations of winning short term, so a big money goalie was unexpected.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Geeat forsight trading Paul to Tampa to eliminate Toronto. Now the next best thing would be Dorion becoming Leafs GM.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]