Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[Ice-Tray]

And then I get lost in IKEA

Every. Single. Time

In the ball room?

 

[Ice-Tray]

He's 100% right.

He better be careful though, telling the truth around this team will get you Wallace-ed. Or maybe the media in this market will finally start calling a spade a spade. I guess we'll see.

I think the distinction is to stay away from slamming the team owner in the media as opposed to team management. That seems to be allowed.

GM come and go and bare the brunt, that seems to be within the media coverage wheel house. No hold bared now by the looks of it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Making a trade to improve the roster = placating internet people? Wow interesting
I guess every other team that made savvy hockey trades placated A LOT of internet people since apparently that's the only impetus for trades

Like Dorion or not, but I do think the best move is to not make a deal right now.

Even a new GM should stand pat because we have all the reasons in the world to roll with what we have, give kids opportunities, and pick up a much needed high pick this summer.

If we were never expectations to make the playoffs, and it’s next to impossible to do so at this point, management should be looking to push hard on the development front, and take the hits from outside.

Let the kids play, don’t mess with the future assets, one of the few bright spots we have.

 

[Tuna99]

Come on, Brian Burke himself said Murray had a lot to do with that team.

You never miss an opportunity to slag him for some reason. You need to move on man. Seriously, blaming him for Dorion? Did he convince Melnyk to extend Pierre from the grave?

Look at the team Murray left in his last season in Anaheim and loo at the Cup winning team: there is no comparison.

I’m not anti Bryan Murray, but there is revisionist history about his team here, which were generally really bad. Good guy, but what made the Sens good before he got here - drafting, player development and player rentention was a recipe for long term success and when he took over that all seemed to end within 20 games. The team went 18-2 to start his tenure as GM sand then the team has essentially been really bad since that time.

So this idea Bryan Murray built winners to me is totally incorrect, he had poor organizational standards and hired really bad staff with Tim Murray, promoting Randy Rick and of course the brutal coaching hires. And overall Ottawa went from a place players liked to be and wanted to stay to a place that no players wanted to stay for.

Murray took the Sens away from what worked and was good with the media so got everything benefit of the doubt. I just don’t see it the same way you do. To me the Sens had an identity before he took over as GM, and they had no identity after he took over. And that’s continued tot his day

 

[Crosside]

Dorion on Sens' struggles: 'We didn't anticipate this, but we're going to battle through'

 

[swiftwin]

Exaclty, he should stop f***ing doing that.

Nobody is mad because he isn't making a random trade, it's because the totality of his work has been absolutley and utterly pathetic.

Wrong! He should keep doing that.

Everyone complains when he "wastes assets", then this season he uses no assets, and people still complain.

Dorion has always been open about the fact that he was not interested in bringing in quality vets, but rather character vets. He specifically makes that differentiation at his end of year presser last year:


Also, @ 27:50 he specifically says: "At some point at time, when we feel we're ready to win, we might have to package a pick or a prospect to make that next step". and later says "At some point and time, we might have to do that, I don't think we're there yet"

But sure, because a bunch of trolls kept spamming "The rebuild is over!", so you got fooled into believing we were going to contend for a playoff spot this year. Boo hoo. Suck it up. Even I thought our odds of making the playoffs this season were under 1%.

Even then, the team has underperformed. Some players the were decent last season took a huge regression.

 

[Sens Vader]

Wrong! He should keep doing that.

Everyone complains when he "wastes assets", then this season he uses no assets, and people still complain.

Dorion has always been open about the fact that he was not interested in bringing in quality vets, but rather character vets. He specifically makes that differentiation at his end of year presser last year:


Also, @ 27:50 he specifically says: "At some point at time, when we feel we're ready to win, we might have to package a pick or a prospect to make that next step". and later says "At some point and time, we might have to do that, I don't think we're there yet"

But sure, because a bunch of trolls kept spamming "The rebuild is over!", so you got fooled into believing we were going to contend for a playoff spot this year. Boo hoo. Suck it up. Even I thought our odds of making the playoffs this season were under 1%.

Even then, the team has underperformed. Some players the were decent last season took a huge regression.

"No point on wasting assets on hole plugs when they're just going to get replaced by future kids."

I didn't expect to make the playoffs, I expected a tangible improvement to the roster.

Dorion can't identify a quality NHLer to save his life. Another backpeddling quote after the season when ever single pro level acquisition failed haha "No, No..I actually meant to trade a 2nd for a garbage player who shouldn't be in the NHL...because character you know"... Sure bud

"I also didn't mean to say the Rebuild is over, I meant to say something not completely stupid instead"

You're the one fanboy remaining, with your eyes and earns covered screaming lalalalala. Wake up and smell the roses baby, Dorion is a f***ing idiot!!

 

[lancepitlick]

PD should be trying to find a player or two that are either: overpaid where they are so can acquire as a salary dump for 1-3 seasons but contribute with minimal assets lost 2) look for a young player that can improve a la Ben Bishop trade many moons ago.

I have zero faith in him being able to identify the correct player that fits those categories so best to stand pat.

 

[Tuna99]

This “we finished last season off so well it’s such a surprise we aren’t that good” followed by “but I’m not trading Erik Karlsson or Jake Sanderson” as if that’s makes them smarter. We’ve heard this every other year for 15 years in Ottwa. The evaluators drink their own kool-aid

 

[swiftwin]

"No point on wasting assets on hole plugs when they're just going to get replaced by future kids."

I didn't expect to make the playoffs, I expected a tangible improvement to the roster.

Dorion can't identify a quality NHLer to save his life. Another backpeddling quote after the season when ever single pro level acquisition failed haha "No, No..I actually meant to trade a 2nd for a garbage player who shouldn't be in the NHL". Sure bud

You're the one fanboy remaining, with your eyes and earns covered screaming lalalalala. Wake up and smell the roses baby, Dorion is a f***ing idiot!!

I'm just bringing acutal quotes to the discussion to shoot down the lies and revisionism that breeds here, like a disease.

Watch the video, Dorion specifically says: "This year, when we move forward, with possible additions, it will be again, along the lines of high character.... but.... maybe.... maybe a different type of player.....".

It's clear to me that he doesn't want to bring in high quality vets to take away from the ice time and development of the kids. We're seeing the rewards of it. Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson are looking phemonenal, Chabot as good as ever. Our PP1 of Chabot-Stutzle-Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson looks great. I'd say nobody in our "core" right now is a vet.

So, how can you say that he can't identify a quality NHLer when he specifically says he's not trying to bring in a quality NHLer???

 

[BondraTime]

The team will finally be able to move on once the management team is replaced. Until then, it’s stuck where it belongs.

 

[Samboni]

I thought Marshall Johnson was a good GM.

 

[Sun God Nika]

better late than never, good on this clown for facing the media and answering questions.

 

[Sens Vader]

I'm just bringing acutal quotes to the discussion to shoot down the lies and revisionism that breeds here, like a disease.

Watch the video, Dorion specifically says: "This year, when we move forward, with possible additions, it will be again, along the lines of high character.... but.... maybe.... maybe a different type of player.....".

It's clear to me that he doesn't want to bring in high quality vets to take away from the ice time and development of the kids. We're seeing the rewards of it. Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson are looking phemonenal, Chabot as good as ever. Our PP1 of Chabot-Stutzle-Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson looks great. I'd say nobody in our "core" right now is a vet.

So, how can you say that he can't identify a quality NHLer when he specifically says he's not trying to bring in a quality NHLer???

My argument is two fold

1) surrounding rookies with bad NHLers is a recipe for last place, so everybody should question that strategy
2) saying you weren't actually looking for good NHL players AFTER the season when all pro level acquisition failed looks like back peddling, and he's already proven to be a back peddler.

You stated we should not trade assets or spend money on hole plugs, That's exaclty what has done - and by his own omission. Thus you disagree with his approach

So he's either backpeddling and can't assess pro talent (likely with the Murray Dadonov and MDZ signings - none expiring contract), OR he has a horrible strategy for building a competitive roster.

Dorion is crumbling in front of our eyes and it's beautiful

 

[Sens Vader]

Delete

 

[swiftwin]

My argument is two fold

1) surrounding rookies with bad NHLers is a recipe for last place, so everybody should question that strategy
2) saying you weren't actually looking for good NHL players AFTER the season when all pro level acquisition failed looks like back peddling, and he's already proven to be a back peddler.

You stated we should not trade assets or spend money on hole plugs, That's exaclty what has done.

Dorion is crumbling in front of our eyes and it's beautiful

Again with the lies and disinformation. He says at the end of last season that he does not want to acquire quality NHLers going forward, for this season, preferring to focus on their character.

 

[Sens Vader]

Again with the lies and disinformation. He says at the end of last season that he does not want to acquire quality NHLers going forward, for this season, preferring to focus on their character.

Dorion: If we go into the free agent market place it will be for a high quality player

And here's where I absolutley dominate you

 

[swiftwin]

So he's either backpeddling and can't assess pro talent (likely with the Murray Dadonov and MDZ signings - none expiring contract), OR he has a horrible strategy for building a competitive roster.

Except he's not trying to build a competitive roster this season. He's building a team for the future. He specifially says "At some point and time, we might have to do that, I don't think we're there yet"

 

[Sens Vader]

Except he's not trying to build a competitive roster this season. He's building a team for the future. He specifially says "At some point and time, we might have to do that, I don't think we're there yet"

Yeah he wanted to compete for a playoff spot, or be in the conversation. That's what I mean by competitive roster

Pay attention, keep up.

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion: If we go into the free agent market place it will be for a high quality player

And here's where I absolutley dominate you

That's what happens when he has to placate emotional fans who want a competitive team today. When Dorion is open and transparent in his press conference, people have a shit fit, and he has to go and say shit like this or like "the rebuild is over". It would be so much easier to rebuild without people like you.

 

[umma gumma]

Look at the team Murray left in his last season in Anaheim and loo at the Cup winning team: there is no comparison.

Hmmm, you or Brian Burke?

Brian Burke gives credit to Bryan Murray for building championship team

I find it hard to imagine you (and anyone else) still think Murray had nothing to do with that team after reading it.

I’m not anti Bryan Murray, but there is revisionist history about his team here, which were generally really bad. Good guy, but what made the Sens good before he got here - drafting, player development and player rentention was a recipe for long term success and when he took over that all seemed to end within 20 games. The team went 18-2 to start his tenure as GM sand then the team has essentially been really bad since that time.

Drafting was atrocious under Muckler (Brian f***ing Lee) already, there was nothing in the pipeline for years. A team that depends on drafting is going to feel that. BM eventually drafted some nice pieces to work with (Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman, Zbad, etc...) but not much you can do if the owner is a cheap ass and can't surround them with more talent, right?

So this idea Bryan Murray built winners to me is totally incorrect, he had poor organizational standards and hired really bad staff with Tim Murray, promoting Randy Rick and of course the brutal coaching hires. And overall Ottawa went from a place players liked to be and wanted to stay to a place that no players wanted to stay for.

That had little to do with the GM. Lots of players that left here had great things to say about him (Aflie, Turris, Fisher, Kelly, Phillips). Remember, it was Murray that got Alfie to come back.

Murray hasn't been around for a while but the team still a circus and players are still leaving. Why? Eugene.

Murray took the Sens away from what worked and was good with the media so got everything benefit of the doubt. I just don’t see it the same way you do. To me the Sens had an identity before he took over as GM, and they had no identity after he took over. And that’s continued tot his day

That was Muckler's doing. What worked for the Sens was always having young talent graduating to the big club every season. Under Muckler's tenure the drafting took a big hit. How many of Muckelr's pics graduated to have a long meaningful career? You're right we don't see it the same way. You put it all on Murray, while I'm going to put most of it on Melnyk and the mandates and constrictions put forth by him, such as bargain bin coach hiring that is still going on to this day, not to mention the poor drafting record after Marshall Johnson left. Murray wasn't perfect, but he was honest and a straight shooter. And he sure has hell has nothing to do with Dorion being the current GM of the Senators. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Sens Vader]

That's what happens when he has to placate emotional fans who want a competitive team today. When Dorion is open and transparent in his press conference, people have a shit fit, and he has to go and say shit like this or like "the rebuild is over". It would be so much easier to rebuild without people like you.

So you admit he lies to the fans and media?

You're squirming again, just like Dorion.

 

[HSF]

Who exactly is this 2C that we went into the season with and lost ? Do they mean pinto who has minimal nhl experience? Or is it white who hasn’t shown to be a top 6 player since stone left

 

[Sens Vader]

Delete

 

[swiftwin]

So you admit he lies to the fans and media?

Yes. Because when he is honest, people attack him. He has no choice.