Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Wondercarrot]

This was a clean sweep of a year. Just amazing.

The picks we’ve spent this past year to clean up the roster have been really well spent and have set us up incredibly well for a longtime.
A hit on a couple years of picks is almost irrelevant given how young our high end core is, and then there is a really nice set of complimentary players coming along over the next 2-4 years (both on offence and defence) which will also ease the burden on keeping the rest of the roster costs down.

It’s pretty hard to imagine DeBrincat not locking in this summer.

 

[bicboi64]

Dorion has his good moves, time will tell whether they balance out his bad moves.

I'm ecstatic that we got Chychrun, but at the same time, the timing feels frustrating. Sure he may have been more earlier on, but earlier on when we had our D injuries is when we needed a move.

If we make the playoffs, I'll gladly eat my crow, but I learned to temper my expectations and judge based on how we play after what happened with Cat. I still don't want Dorion in charge after new ownership based off what he did with depth but will enjoy the ride we're having so far.

 

[Samsquanch]

No more trading first rounders for a while ok?

If we keep getting young star players under control, and on manageable contracts that fit the teams needs - then we continue to trade every first rounder until the core falls apart and we sell it all off.

 

[Super Cake]

Dorion has his good moves, time will tell whether they balance out his bad moves.

I'm ecstatic that we got Chychrun, but at the same time, the timing feels frustrating. Sure he may have been more earlier on, but earlier on when we had our D injuries is when we needed a move.

If we make the playoffs, I'll gladly eat my crow, but I learned to temper my expectations and judge based on how we play after what happened with Cat. I still don't want Dorion in charge after new ownership based off what he did with depth but will enjoy the ride we're having so far.

It sucks, but prices were probably through the roof in the beginning. I mean it came out that Arizona was originally asking about Grieg and our other top prospects. Luckily the other teams backed away from Armstrongs stupid requests and Dorion was able to get him just for draft picks.

No matter what happens the rest of the way, this move sets us up more for next season and beyond. Just need to fire Smith now.

 

[Micklebot]

Dorion has his good moves, time will tell whether they balance out his bad moves.

I'm ecstatic that we got Chychrun, but at the same time, the timing feels frustrating. Sure he may have been more earlier on, but earlier on when we had our D injuries is when we needed a move.

If we make the playoffs, I'll gladly eat my crow, but I learned to temper my expectations and judge based on how we play after what happened with Cat. I still don't want Dorion in charge after new ownership based off what he did with depth but will enjoy the ride we're having so far.

The one thing you can say for Dorion, is right from the get go he's never been shy a out making big deals.

Zibanejad for Brassard
Turris and 1rd for Duchene
Karlsson for 1st, 2nd, Norris, Tierney, Demelo
7oa, 2nd, 3rd for DeBrincat
1st, 2nd and 2nd for Chychrun

Can't think of too many GMs that have made that many big trades in such a short span

 

[JD1]

The Sens don't need to be shy in the showers around any team in the NHL.

Nick Paul says hello

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I was gonna ask the same. Did this earn him a 2 or 3 year extension?

And...if so, can he let go of Smith?

For sure and will during his extension.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Chychrun trade might be the one that keeps him here even after new ownership.

DeBrincat, Giroux, Chychrun, Zub extension and Tkachuk/Stutzle extensions are remarkable.

 

[Alex1234]

Found him goofy more then once in the last 5 years but have to acknowledge he's done a very very good job in the last 9 months

 

[JD1]

Dorion has built one hell of a team

Tkachuk Stuetzle Giroux
Xxxx Norris Batherson
Xxx Pinto xxx

Chabot Chychrun
Sanderson Zub
Brannstrom xxxx

Not a bad contract in that lot. Chabot probably the worst contract

We get DeBrincat signed on terms we like or assets back. Our prospect group only needs to fill bottom 6 bottom pair responsibility for a few years.

 

[Big Muddy]

Things aren't static, surely he's been learning from his early rookie mistakes, building relationships with other GMs, etc. Free from owner intervention he has fewer restrictions too, which can only help. He still needs to beef up the front office, the scouting staff, analytics department, etc, which with new ownership should be possible.

The one thing you can say for Dorion, is right from the get go he's never been shy a out making big deals.

Zibanejad for Brassard
Turris and 1rd for Duchene
Karlsson for 1st, 2nd, Norris, Tierney, Demelo
7oa, 2nd, 3rd for DeBrincat
1st, 2nd and 2nd for Chychrun

Can't think of too many GMs that have made that many big trades in such a short span

It was always hard to tell which moves that Pierre made were ones made because of Melnyk. For example, the Zibanejad moves looks like a trade made to cut salary (eventually) which does look like something that was done for Melnyk. Perhaps the Duchene move was different because Dorion seemed to get locked on Duchene, although Turris was moved at the same time.

I will say that like most GMs, he's made both good moves and some bad ones. Like most things, it's a question of balance. Things were never as bad or good as the most extreme views that are expressed. But, on the balance and overall, I think he's done a pretty reasonable and decent job.

It will be interesting to see how this rebuild and all of this stuff works out given that the Eastern Conference is pretty competitive and there's several strong teams. GSG.

 

[GCK]

He's responsible for hiring the coaching staff and the coaching has been shit, so, no, not a slam dunk imo

Why is the coaching staff shit, as you say.

 

[JD1]

Why is the coaching staff shit, as you say.

Structure. I laugh at that term. I've pushed several guys to explain. First they insult, but I keep pushing, then they disappear.

 

[GCK]

Structure. I laugh at that term. I've pushed several guys to explain. First they insult, but I keep pushing, then they disappear.

The system hasn’t changed since November yet we are giving up fewer shots and scoring chances. Funny that players mature and improve their overall games.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Dorion has built one hell of a team

Tkachuk Stuetzle Giroux
Xxxx Norris Batherson
Xxx Pinto xxx

Chabot Chychrun
Sanderson Zub
Brannstrom xxxx

Not a bad contract in that lot. Chabot probably the worst contract

We get DeBrincat signed on terms we like or assets back. Our prospect group only needs to fill bottom 6 bottom pair responsibility for a few years.

Very weird how you don't have Greig in that group.

Greig slots in beside Pinto or Norris quite easily. He will be a critical piece in any cup run we have in next few years.

 

[Sting]

Pierre has done a good job of understanding that once your core is in place, the picks don't matter so much given you're really just filling in bottom 6/ bottom 2 D spots.

I think the challenge for this group is going to be - is this a cup contender core? I don't think you could blame Pierre if its not. Part of it is drafting but a big part of it is luck (where you end up drafting, how players develop).

If you look at our core versus say, Toronto, Colorado, Tampa...we look pretty weak at the moment. I was doubtful before but I think Stu is a world-class player in the making. History has shown you probably need 2-3 of those guys. The only Cup winner in recent memory without 1-2 top 5 players in the game are the Blues.

So I'll remain cautiously optimistic. We're either going to be really happy or end up with a club similar to Winnipeg/NYI/Calgary etc where we're perennial lower end playoff teams.

At least the next few years will be fun to watch. Cheering for a draft pick gets old!

 

[NyQuil]

If you look at our core versus say, Toronto, Colorado, Tampa...we look pretty weak at the moment. I was doubtful before but I think Stu is a world-class player in the making. History has shown you probably need 2-3 of those guys. The only Cup winner in recent memory without 1-2 top 5 players in the game are the Blues.

So I'll remain cautiously optimistic. We're either going to be really happy or end up with a club similar to Winnipeg/NYI/Calgary etc where we're perennial lower end playoff teams.

At least the next few years will be fun to watch. Cheering for a draft pick gets old!

I think we knew that awhile ago when we weren't going to be the kind of team that was going to put up $13M-$15M for a single player.

For one, you have to draft one, or be insanely lucky enough that the guy doesn't get re-signed and comes to your team by choice.

Neither option is that likely.

I don't mind rolling the dice with the core that we have over the next 3-5 years.

There are far more superstar-laden Cup winners, but there are the occasional Carolina, Los Angeles and St. Louis winners.

In 2011, the Bruins won with their top scorer putting up 62 points. Marchand was a 20 goal scorer.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Why is the coaching staff shit, as you say.

There is zero semblance of system in the defensive end. Zilch.

In fact, one could argue there's no system period in any end.

I love that smith has enthusiasm, but it takes more than that in the top league in the world.

Edit: I'll edit this to say that if magically smith has turned the corner and the team stops panicking in their own zone, then I'm fine with him, but until that happens I don't see how anyone can watch them flail in their own zone and say, yes, this is great! Even if they've played better recently.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There is zero semblance of system in the defensive end. Zilch.

In fact, one could argue there's no system period in any end.

I love that smith has enthusiasm, but it takes more than that in the top league in the world.

Edit: I'll edit this to say that if magically smith has turned the corner and the team stops panicking in their own zone, then I'm fine with him, but until that happens I don't see how anyone can watch them flail in their own zone and say, yes, this is great! Even if they've played better recently.

Well we know this isn’t true at all.

 

[JD1]

Pierre has done a good job of understanding that once your core is in place, the picks don't matter so much given you're really just filling in bottom 6/ bottom 2 D spots.

I think the challenge for this group is going to be - is this a cup contender core? I don't think you could blame Pierre if its not. Part of it is drafting but a big part of it is luck (where you end up drafting, how players develop).

If you look at our core versus say, Toronto, Colorado, Tampa...we look pretty weak at the moment. I was doubtful before but I think Stu is a world-class player in the making. History has shown you probably need 2-3 of those guys. The only Cup winner in recent memory without 1-2 top 5 players in the game are the Blues.

So I'll remain cautiously optimistic. We're either going to be really happy or end up with a club similar to Winnipeg/NYI/Calgary etc where we're perennial lower end playoff teams.

At least the next few years will be fun to watch. Cheering for a draft pick gets old!

I don't know. Our core is improving. Adding Chychrun is huge.

I agree on the two to three players. I've posted many times that cup winners have two, sometimes three, HoF players in their primes.

I think Stuetzle is going to be an elite star. Careers and the HoF are built on winning. Sanderson, Chychrun, Tkachuk. Not hard to see those guys play best on best tournaments. Win cups. Post points. Make the Hall. Then we've got Giroux. Adding a cup to his resume sure looks like a HoF career. He'll top 1100 points by the time he ends this contract.

 

[Crosside]

Dorion: This isn't just a trade for our push right now but for years to come

Ottawa Senators General Manager Pierre Dorion meets the media in New York following the Sens acquiring Jakob Chychrun last night and Derick Brassard playing in his 1000th game tonight.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Mingus Dew]

I am on record being worried about trading the first. Similar to the Debrincat trade this has the potential to turn into a Top 10 pick for a very good but not elite player. In this draft that pick has a ton of value.

Still, you have to credit Dorion for a masterful bit of GM'ing here. This was an objectively great trade even if things go a little sideways.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Well we know this isn’t true at all.

Oh, ok, great

 

[Micklebot]

I was pretty hesitant on acquiring Chychrun given the ask,

With us playing so well lately, I'm less upset about including our first than I was when I expected it to be top 5, and not including either of Greig or Pinto ISA real win.

I'm still concerned about no first two consecutive years, especially with Boucher pick the year before being a bit of a roll of the dice, but Chychrun is a long term addition that can grow with the team.

Dorion has really done well the last 9 months, I think we'd have been better off had the timing of Chychrun and DeBrincat acquisitions been swapped but that's nitpicking.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am on record being worried about trading the first. Similar to the Debrincat trade this has the potential to turn into a Top 10 pick for a very good but not elite player. In this draft that pick has a ton of value.

Still, you have to credit Dorion for a masterful bit of GM'ing here. This was an objectively great trade even if things go a little sideways.

He has 2 more years, a good track record and a very attractive contract... DBC deal is different from a contractual perspective