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Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

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BankStreetParade

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Jan 22, 2013
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I think we got partially lucky with the Karlsson trade from the angle that trading, rather than signing a guy at that age to an AAV above $10M on a max extension, came right at the moment the league as a whole started realizing that you button down your young players to that kind of money and term, not aging superstars cashing in their last mega-cheque.

Sure, his injuries were always a concern. Even among the most diehard Karlsson supporters on this forum. The return was wishy-washy according to some and a slam-dunk according to others. But the fact that we escaped from what is now an inescapable cap anchor is probably the most beneficial aspect of the entire trade. And maybe the luckiest part too. Forget what we got for him, imagine what we'd have to pay to get rid of him at that kind of money and term?
 
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Ice-Tray

Ice-Tray

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BankStreetParade said:
I think we got partially lucky with the Karlsson trade from the angle that trading, rather than signing a guy at that age to an AAV above $10M on a max extension, came right at the moment the league as a whole started realizing that you button down your young players to that kind of money and term, not aging superstars cashing in their last mega-cheque.

Sure, his injuries were always a concern. Even among the most diehard Karlsson supporters on this forum. The return was wishy-washy according to some and a slam-dunk according to others. But the fact that we escaped from what is now an inescapable cap anchor is probably the most beneficial aspect of the entire trade. And maybe the luckiest part too. Forget what we got for him, imagine what we'd have to pay to get rid of him at that kind of money and term?
Click to expand...
I believe that in one of Dorion’s recent interviews he comes out and says that Duchene and Karlsson both wanted out, but that Stone wanted to stay if a deal could get done. It might be the one where he laments the trade and the return.
 
UglyPuckling

UglyPuckling

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May 14, 2021
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Haven't done this in awhile, so here is 2023-24 roster with salaries = $81.7 m.

If we added Chychrun salary ($4.6 m AAV) to this roster, our total cap would be $86.425 m (moved JBD to 7D).

Notes:
Pinto and Formenton/replacement @ $2.0 m which seems pretty conservative. Overall, the salary assumptions are pretty conservative, and might be a little light.

JBD & Thomson on blueline and Søgaard in net.

22 player roster.

Tkachuk 8.205
Norris 7.950
Batherson 4.975
Total Line 1: $21.13 m

Debrincat 9.0 (qualifying offer)
Stutzle 8.35
Giroux 6.5
Total Line 2: $23.85 m

Joesph 2.95
Pinto 2.0 (resigned)
Formenton or XXX 2.0
Total Line 3: $6.95 m

Kelly .763
Gambrell/replacement .950
Motte 1.35
Total Line 4 $3.063 m

Chabot 8.0
Zub 4.5 (new contract)
1st pair total $12.5 m

Sanderson .925
JBD .925
2nd pair total $1.850

Thomson .863
Brannstrom 1.2 (resigned to short term contract)
3rd pair total: $2.063 m

Forsberg 2.75
Sogaard .925
Goalie total: $3.674 m

Murray retained 1.562
Buyout:
B Ryan 1.833
C. White .875
MDZ .750
Total retained/buyouts $5.02 m

Forward #13 .800
Defender #7 .800

TOTAL $81.7 M

NOTES:
22 player roster
Signing bonuses NOT included
 
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Hale The Villain

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BankStreetParade said:
I think we got partially lucky with the Karlsson trade from the angle that trading, rather than signing a guy at that age to an AAV above $10M on a max extension, came right at the moment the league as a whole started realizing that you button down your young players to that kind of money and term, not aging superstars cashing in their last mega-cheque.

Sure, his injuries were always a concern. Even among the most diehard Karlsson supporters on this forum. The return was wishy-washy according to some and a slam-dunk according to others. But the fact that we escaped from what is now an inescapable cap anchor is probably the most beneficial aspect of the entire trade. And maybe the luckiest part too. Forget what we got for him, imagine what we'd have to pay to get rid of him at that kind of money and term?
Click to expand...

Yeah as it turns out we were very fortunate that Karlsson didn't want to stay. Same goes for Dzingel passing up a big contract to go down south.

Dodged major bullets there, and I expect that will also be the case before too long with Stone, Duchene and Pageau too. Big UFA contracts rarely work out well long-term.

This team would generally be better off by trading upcoming free agents that are in their late 20s/early 30s instead of paying UFA money and term to them.
 
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GCK

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The biggest mistake Dorion made this summer.was buying out Del Zotto final year. He was 2.25 this year so we saved 1.5M this year by splitting the 1.5M buyout over 2 years but if we are a cap team next year that 750K cap hit would be valuable. Should have just stuck him in Belleville.
 
Micklebot

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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GCK said:
The biggest mistake Dorion made this summer.was buying out Del Zotto final year. He was 2.25 this year so we saved 1.5M this year by splitting the 1.5M buyout over 2 years but if we are a cap team next year that 750K cap hit would be valuable. Should have just stuck him in Belleville.
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Might have bought him out to give him the opportunity to get another NHL gig, 750k in cap space might be well spent if it means we are perceived as a team that treats players well even when things don't work out.
 
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JD1

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Micklebot said:
Might have bought him out to give him the opportunity to get another NHL gig, 750k in cap space might be well spent if it means we are perceived as a team that treats players well even when things don't work out.
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This is something that I think a lot of people don't consider. Players are not widgets. They are people and how they are treated matters.

I think moving Brown was doing him a solid. He coulda been kept. Played 3rd line. No PP. It doesn't do him anything in a contract year. But guys know his opportunity was lessened and he was moved and likely welcomed it.

By and large Dorion has treated players well.

Look at Vegas. Lots of rumblings about how players are treated. I suspect it will cause them problems rolling forward
 
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Micklebot

Micklebot

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JD1 said:
This is something that I think a lot of people don't consider. Players are not widgets. They are people and how they are treated matters.

I think moving Brown was doing him a solid. He coulda been kept. Played 3rd line. No PP. It doesn't do him anything in a contract year. But guys know his opportunity was lessened and he was moved and likely welcomed it.

By and large Dorion has treated players well.

Look at Vegas. Lots of rumblings about how players are treated. I suspect it will cause them problems rolling forward
Click to expand...
You'd think as sens fans we'd know what the fallout of treating players poorly can look like with the whole Hossa/Chara deal.

I do think holding onto Brown is a bit different than sending MDZ to Robidas island, I mean, Brown's probably getting 3rd line mins and limited or no PP time in Washington too. Maybe they asked him his preference, to play here till the deadline or move now, idk...
 

bicboi64

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I'm just surprised no other team wanted him for the cap hit he had, even as a stop gap. He's a serviceable 3rd pairing guy that can QB the 2nd PP unit. I think he'll get a decent enough amount of playing time on a Florida roster that has forwards that are very good two way guys and he'll be useful there. I'm sure Dorion tried, but it just seems strange he wasn't able to find takers for a later round draft pick
 
Mark Stones Spleen

Mark Stones Spleen

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Silencio

Silencio

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JD1 said:
Look at Vegas. Lots of rumblings about how players are treated. I suspect it will cause them problems rolling forward
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You'd think so, but then free agency rolls around and the big name players will be like "DESERT WEATHER GOLF CASINO MONEY PRINTER GO BRRR" as usual. The opportunity to live and make millions in Vegas will always win out and I have zero faith this will ever change.
 
SpezDispenser

SpezDispenser

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Ice-Tray said:
I believe that in one of Dorion’s recent interviews he comes out and says that Duchene and Karlsson both wanted out, but that Stone wanted to stay if a deal could get done. It might be the one where he laments the trade and the return.
Click to expand...
I doubt he does in all honesty. Stone isn't worth his contract going forward. Too many injuries will slow his game down to a halt soon. I loved Stone when he was here, but I think at this point it's more the Debrincat style of play that we need.
 
Ice-Tray

Ice-Tray

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SpezDispenser said:
I doubt he does in all honesty. Stone isn't worth his contract going forward. Too many injuries will slow his game down to a halt soon. I loved Stone when he was here, but I think at this point it's more the Debrincat style of play that we need.
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I agree contract wise, and injury wise really. He did say that basically he really wanted to sign him at the time.

Now I don’t think anyone is wishing he had signed that deal here.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

Sens of Anarchy

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Painful to remember parts of this .. Its a pretty good history of the post 2017 run to now. Some may say amazingly, dissecting how it all went down, we are looking pretty good now. Lets hope we can keep Debrincat, Zub and bring in a top 4 D. Go Sens Go.
 
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milkbag

milkbag

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Sens of Anarchy said:
Painful to remember parts of this .. Its a pretty good history of the post 2017 run to now. Some may say amazingly, dissecting how it all went down, we are looking pretty good now. Lets hope we can keep Debrincat, Zub and bring in a top 4 D. Go Sens Go.
Click to expand...

My face while reading through and reliving our tirefire era all over again
 

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Wallet Inspector

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