Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[BondraTime]

He’s had a fantastic, fantastic off-season.

Was not a fan of brining in Debrincat, mainly because I believed the cost to acquire would be enormous (7th + 2023 1st + young roster player), and think he will be overpaid should he resign. With what we paid for him, it’s good regardless as they gave up so little.

Goroix signing is obviously fantastic for the team.

Brown was a soldier for us, but he is what he is. A gadget tweener who is sound defensively. A 2nd rounder with no salary coming back for a guy we were never going to re-sign is great for us.

Getting rid of Murray without giving up a prime draft pick, or retaining a significant amount was larceny. Murray is the definition of band-aid, and is so easily thrown off his game.

Grabbed an extremely solid 1B/2A for a guy who was not in the plans anymore.

The Norris contract will be the only move I disagree with, of course with my own interpretation of him as a player moving forward.

 

[Bevans]

I'm talking about what happens after next season. We won't win the Stanley Cup this season. What will happen next? Sale of quality players? I don’t know, maybe this is the right strategy, teams with 10 M players don’t win cups, and the sale of one of Stutzle, Debrinсat, Sanderson or Pinto is only for the good of the team? Let's see...

I don't understand your point?

If you can't win, don't get out of bed?

The players you're concerned about are under team control and they're only expensive if they're good. Which is the whole point.

You seem to be afraid of success.

 

[GCK]

He’s had a fantastic, fantastic off-season.

Was not a fan of brining in Debrincat, mainly because I believed the cost to acquire would be enormous (7th + 2023 1st + young roster player), and think he will be overpaid should he resign. With what we paid for him, it’s good regardless as they gave up so little.

Goroix signing is obviously fantastic for the team.

Brown was a soldier for us, but he is what he is. A gadget tweener who is sound defensively. A 2nd rounder with no salary coming back for a guy we were never going to re-sign is great for us.

Getting rid of Murray without giving up a prime draft pick, or retaining a significant amount was larceny. Murray is the definition of band-aid, and is so easily thrown off his game.

Grabbed an extremely solid 1B/2A for a guy who was not in the plans anymore.

The Norris contract will be the only move I disagree with, of course with my own interpretation of him as a player moving forward.

Even the Norris contract was okay. A little richer than I was hoping for, maybe 500-750K per year, but the market was set by Suzuki and then Thomas. As soon as Thomas got his 65M deal, Norris got 63.6M the next day.

 

[BondraTime]

Even the Norris contract was okay. A little richer than I was hoping for, maybe 500-750K per year, but the market was set by Suzuki and then Thomas. As soon as Thomas got his 65M deal, Norris got 63.6M the next day.

I understand that, and believe all were overpaid.

The reason I think it’s an overpay isn’t because I don’t think Norris is going to be scoring 30 goals regularly, if again, for the Sens.

It’s only my read on the player that’s making it an overpayment, not the actual market.

 

[Bevans]

I understand that, and believe all were overpaid.

The reason I think it’s an overpay isn’t because I don’t think Norris is going to be scoring 30 goals regularly, if again, for the Sens.

It’s only my read on the player that’s making it an overpayment, not the actual market.

He paced over 40 and I think that will be tough for him. But he has a 30 goal shot.

If his shoulder holds up I think he can be a consistent 30 goal threat. The Senators will have one of the best powerplays in the NHL and he's the trigger man for now.

Even the Norris contract was okay. A little richer than I was hoping for, maybe 500-750K per year, but the market was set by Suzuki and then Thomas. As soon as Thomas got his 65M deal, Norris got 63.6M the next day.

The difference on those guys is they make twice as much as Norris in year 1.

Money today is worth more than money tomorrow.

 

[Hun]

I don't understand your point?

If you can't win, don't get out of bed?

The players you're concerned about are under team control and they're only expensive if they're good. Which is the whole point.

You seem to be afraid of success.

Debrinсat 9M next season. He is out of the team's control. We won't be able to sign him if we sign Stutzle. I believe that Sanderson will be better than Chabot, but we will not be able to sign him for a long time, because most of the money will go to Chabot. Norris and Pinto, count for yourself, but at Norris' 8M, I don't know where to find the money for such a good center as Pinto. We will have 1-2 seasons with all these players. Next you have to choose. And I guess a lot of people won't like the choice.

 

[Bevans]

Debrinсat 9M next season. He is out of the team's control. We won't be able to sign him if we sign Stutzle. I believe that Sanderson will be better than Chabot, but we will not be able to sign him for a long time, because most of the money will go to Chabot. Norris and Pinto, count for yourself, but at Norris' 8M, I don't know where to find the money for such a good center as Pinto. We will have 1-2 seasons with all these players. Next you have to choose. And I guess a lot of people won't like the choice.

Debrincat under control next year. You're spiraling.

Basically you're panicking that all these guys will become amazing and then suddenly be free agents even though they're not. It's an irrational counter -productive fear. I will not join you in this paranoia.

Bridges are not as scary as you seem to believe.

 

[JD1]

I understand that, and believe all were overpaid.

The reason I think it’s an overpay isn’t because I don’t think Norris is going to be scoring 30 goals regularly, if again, for the Sens.

It’s only my read on the player that’s making it an overpayment, not the actual market.

I think that PP utilization is going to dictate how many goals Norris pops. All last year, you knew it was coming but teams couldn't stop it.

Will that role continue? Will they move pp1 to DeBrincat shooting off the other side? If they do, Norris won't be getting as many.

I think one of DeBrincat or Norris will "underperform" and I put that in quotes because one shoots off the left, the other off the right and the PP has to gear one way or the other. Whichever way it gears, that guy will score, the other guy will "underperform"

It's easier for out LHD to move the puck for Norris's shot than for DeBrincat's shot. Be interesting to see what they do

 

[Bevans]

I think that PP utilization is going to dictate how many goals Norris pops. All last year, you knew it was coming but teams couldn't stop it.

Will that role continue? Will they move pp1 to DeBrincat shooting off the other side? If they do, Norris won't be getting as many.

I think one of DeBrincat or Norris will "underperform" and I put that in quotes because one shoots off the left, the other off the right and the PP has to gear one way or the other. Whichever way it gears, that guy will score, the other guy will "underperform"

It's easier for out LHD to move the puck for Norris's shot than for DeBrincat's shot. Be interesting to see what they do

I don't agree that it's easier for Chabot to go to the right, across his body. And I think that's suppprted by the numbers.

Norris's goals came across the box from Stu.

 

[Bevans]

I don't agree that it's easier for Chabot to go to the right, across his body. And I think that's suppprted by the numbers.

Norris's goals came across the box from Stu.

For additional context Chabot had 2 primary Assists on Norris' 16 PPG this past season. Far less than Stu And Batherson.

 

[JD1]

I don't agree that it's easier for Chabot to go to the right, across his body. And I think that's suppprted by the numbers.

Norris's goals came across the box from Stu.

What does Stu assisting on goals scored by Norris have to do with what I said?

 

[Bevans]

What does Stu assisting on goals scored by Norris have to do with what I said?

"It's easier for out LHD to move the puck for Norris's shot than for DeBrincat's shot." You

"I don't agree that it's easier for Chabot to go to the right, across his body" me.

It is not easy for Chabot to go to Norris. It does not happen.

Chabot goes to left half boards. They go to Norris.

It would be easier for Chabot to go to Debrincat, not across his body.

 

[JD1]

"It's easier for out LHD to move the puck for Norris's shot than for DeBrincat's shot." You

"I don't agree that it's easier for Chabot to go to the right, across his body" me.

It is not easy for Chabot to go to Norris. It does not happen.

Chabot goes to left half boards. They go to Norris.

It would be easier for Chabot to go to Debrincat, not across his body.

I completely disagree with that.

It is easier for right hand shots to move the puck to their left and for left hand shots to move the puck to their right.

 

[Bevans]

I completely disagree with that.

It is easier for right hand shots to move the puck to their left and for left hand shots to move the puck to their right.

I mean it's a much shorter point going stick to stick. That's why point men flip for the one timer set up.

Regardless of what is easiest for a theoretical player, it is objectively not easier for Chabot because he cannot/will not do it.

As I said, he only had 2 primary Norris Assists. So the powerplay (for whatever reason) is not designed to run from Chabot to Norris.

 

[Micklebot]

I think that PP utilization is going to dictate how many goals Norris pops. All last year, you knew it was coming but teams couldn't stop it.

Will that role continue? Will they move pp1 to DeBrincat shooting off the other side? If they do, Norris won't be getting as many.

I think one of DeBrincat or Norris will "underperform" and I put that in quotes because one shoots off the left, the other off the right and the PP has to gear one way or the other. Whichever way it gears, that guy will score, the other guy will "underperform"

It's easier for out LHD to move the puck for Norris's shot than for DeBrincat's shot. Be interesting to see what they do

I agree with your general sentiment, but the last bit about it being easier for a LHD to move the puck to Norris I think is a bit overstated. Only 3 of Norris' PP goals came from a pass from a D, for DeBrincat it was [edit] also 3. Most of the goals are coming from going through the box.

This year's PP should be interesting to watch, we have so many new options that it will be tough to defend if the team can get in a groove, however, it also means the team will need to perfect multiple looks as opposed to really relying on one or two mainstays.

 

[Micklebot]

I mean it's a much shorter point going stick to stick. That's why point men flip for the one timer set up.

Regardless of what is easiest for a theoretical player, it is objectively not easier for Chabot because he cannot/will not do it.

As I said, he only had 2 primary Norris Assists. So the powerplay (for whatever reason) is not designed to run from Chabot to Norris.

To be fair, they only played in 48 games together this season. Jones and DeBrincat played 78 games together and Jones only had (edit misscounted) 3 primary assists on DeBrincat PP goals. It not like with somebody else feeding Norris, that guy woul have 15 primary PP assists.

Heck, Rantanen was the primary PP G scoring forward in Colorado with 16 PP goals, only 5 came from Makar (or any D) so 2 more. Not a big difference.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, its going to be nice to actually have a legit PP2 unit. That's a big step.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well, its going to be nice to actually have a legit PP2 unit. That's a big step.

I think it will be neat to have 2 PPs .. one set up for one timers coming from the left side and the other from the right side. If they can execute equally well both ways .. which they should be able to they could give PKs extra challenges to adjust.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think it will be neat to have 2 PPs .. one set up for one timers coming from the left side and the other from the right side. If they can execute equally well both ways .. which they should be able to they could give PKs extra challenges to adjust.

Yep, agreed. They can run two different schemes, one for each unit.

 

[Senovision]

I think Debrincat will surprise to the upside.
He will be awesome once the chemistry is developed ....which will take time.

 

[OD99]

There has been far too much discussion about what side a D shoots on and passing to open players on the PP.

That is very low on the list of items addressed to have an effective PP.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There has been far too much discussion about what side a D shoots on and passing to open players on the PP.

That is very low on the list of items addressed to have an effective PP.

True and Dorion probably is not involved in that decision.

 

[Bevans]

There has been far too much discussion about what side a D shoots on and passing to open players on the PP.

That is very low on the list of items addressed to have an effective PP.

Totally disagree. Personally I think a QB is a very important aspect of a PP. Chabot is not a good one

 

[OD99]

Totally disagree. Personally I think a QB is a very important aspect of a PP. Chabot is not a good one

That's fine.

What does that have to do with which way he shoots?

 

[Bevans]

That's fine.

What does that have to do with which way he shoots?

Because I don't think the current powerplay is well suited to a left hand (muffin) shot on 1st pp.

Hes got about 3 pp goals in his life so other teams don't respect his shot, and his pass across his body to Norris doesn't lead to many goals. These factors mean teams can cheat away from him. A higher volume PP QB would stretch the defenders' box and create more opportunities.

The weakest point in the team's pp is it lacks of a shot pass threat from the top. Everything else is is excellent, so it's easy to pick the spot to nit pick. Chabot's skillset and or handedness are the weak point.