Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Sens Vader]

of waiting for


How do you not know that Mann is the reason for some bad picks?

I don’t see either Mann finding a job quickly if they were such all stars waiting in the wings.

He would be the main reason for all good and bad picks, he was the boss it falls on his shoulders. He was the head of scouting for the rebuild and overall did an amazing job imo

 

[KingAlfie11]

Well, they fired Mann who had a significant hand in building this team. In fact, if our drafting and prospect scouting wasn't a knock out this rebuild would have been shite

So you're saying that Dorion has nothing to do with this rebuild right? But I'm sure you will be the first to blame him if the team doesn't make the playoff this year? So if the rebuild is successful it's because of everyone else but Dorion and if it fails all the blames goes to Dorion?

It's alright to criticize the GM, but to try to erase all the good work he did he's not right imo. To say that Dorion did a good job doesn't mean that he will not be held accountable if the team don't make the playoff this year. He should just like the coach that\s pro sports.

 

[Sens Vader]

So you're saying that Dorion has nothing to do with this rebuild right? But I'm sure you will be the first to blame him if the team doesn't make the playoff this year? So if the rebuild is successful it's because of everyone else but Dorion and if it fails all the blames goes to Dorion?

It's alright to criticize the GM, but to try to erase all the good work he did he's not right imo. To say that Dorion did a good job doesn't mean that he will not be held accountable if the team don't make the playoff this year. He should just like the coach that\s pro sports.

No, I am saying, to the poster's point on not replacing people but adding to the staff, that we are replacing the head of scouting who played a major factor in the success of the rebuild.

The success of the rebuild is on everybody, amateur and pro scouts, GM, coaches.

I am not erasing anything or criticizing anybody- this rebuild was won through the drafting, developing, and signing of core pieces. But we have already started to "replace" key people

We also changed the head of pro scouting but nobody was fired

Going into this season with a new head of amateur scouting, new head of pro scouting, and a POHO (Staios?) is some significant change without cleaning house

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Is he scouting games?

No, he's been dismissed but is paid by Ottawa until his contract happens. When employees under contract get "fired" it doesn't mean their contracts evaporate. They get to go to the cottage but still get a nice direct deposit.

Mike Babcock received a paycheque from the Toronto Maple Leafs for 4 years after he was fired. That's why it took so long for him to go out and get another job. It wasn't because he was "working on himself" or teams didn't want to hire him. He was paid to fish and hunt.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

No, he's been dismissed but is paid by Ottawa until his contract happens. When employees under contract get "fired" it doesn't mean their contracts evaporate. They get to go to the cottage but still get a nice direct deposit.

Mike Babcock received a paycheque from the Toronto Maple Leafs for 4 years after he was fired. That's why it took so long for him to go out and get another job. It wasn't because he was "working on himself" or teams didn't want to hire him. He was paid to fish and hunt.

Mike Babcock hired as head coach at University of Saskatchewan

Mike Babcock is back in the head coaching game after being hired as the new head coach at the University of Saskatchewan on Saturday.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Mike Babcock hired as head coach at University of Saskatchewan

Mike Babcock is back in the head coaching game after being hired as the new head coach at the University of Saskatchewan on Saturday.

www.nbcsports.com

That's not an NHL job. Once you get a job with another NHL team, the team that fired you can stop paying you. You're the one ending your contract to take another role, not them.

You'd think you'd know a basic thing like this. It's pretty common knowledge. Basic stuff.

It's why it's not that easy for budget teams to fire coaches and GMs as it is for the Leafs or Rangers. Firing someone doesn't mean you don't have to still pay them.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

That's not an NHL job. Once you get a job with another NHL team, the team that fired you can stop paying you. You're the one ending your contract to take another role, not them.

You'd think you'd know a basic thing like this. It's pretty common knowledge. Basic stuff.

It's why it's not that easy for budget teams to fire coaches and GMs as it is for the Leafs or Rangers. Firing someone doesn't mean you don't have to still pay them.

Not really.

 

[HSF]

Not really.

He's right

Babcock didnt return to the NHL until his contract with the leaf was up so that he could still get paid

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

He's right

Babcock didnt return to the NHL until his contract with the leaf was up so that he could still get paid

Was he still under contract or was his contract terminated?

Was he paid in full for the remainder of his contract or was he getting a pay cheque monthly during his termination payout period?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

How about those Murray and MDZ signings, eh guys?

 

[HSF]

Was he still under contract or was his contract terminated?

Was he paid in full for the remainder of his contract or was he getting a pay cheque monthly during his termination payout period?

You continually get paid and not a lump sum at termination

If a coach is hired to a new team sometimes teams can negotiate contract compensation between the new and old team as well. Usually though coaches and GMs who are getting paid to not work for a team wait till their contract is up before going elsewhere. Babcock just had a long contract

 

[Golden_Jet]

Was he still under contract or was his contract terminated?

Was he paid in full for the remainder of his contract or was he getting a pay cheque monthly during his termination payout period?

He got paid in full, but not on a lump sum, it’s why he wasn’t available until July 1.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Contracts don't stop being enforceable when the coach is fired. The Leafs kept paying Babcock as if he was still the coach (unless there were provisions about what happened if he got fired).

He couldn't have a contract with two NHL teams so he just decided to ride out the Toronto contract. If he had gotten another NHL contract before that, he would have had to walk away from the Toronto $$$.

This is all very base level stuff.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Contracts don't stop being enforceable when the coach is fired. The Leafs kept paying Babcock as if he was still the coach (unless there were provisions about what happened if he got fired).

He couldn't have a contract with two NHL teams so he just decided to ride out the Toronto contract. If he had gotten another NHL contract before that, he would have had to walk away from the Toronto $$$.

This is all very base level stuff.

Usually when that happens, there is a negotiation and

Ie Babcock 6.25 Leafs, and he signs for 4 million with another team. Leafs pay 2.25 million until deal expires with the leafs, to make him whole.

 

[SensHulk]

If the rumor is true about Philly being willing to take on Joseph’s cap hit with Tyler Boucher attached…what are we waiting for? Forget the optics, Boucher doesn’t seem to be panning out so far and Dorion has less pressure to keep Boucher since Trent Mann is out (can easily play it off as a Trent Mann call)

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

If the rumor is true about Philly being willing to take on Joseph’s cap hit with Tyler Boucher attached…what are we waiting for? Forget the optics, Boucher doesn’t seem to be panning out so far and Dorion has less pressure to keep Boucher since Trent Mann is out (can easily play it off as a Trent Mann call)

I am sold

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

i dont even care about Boucher that much but the thought of losing him for nothing just for the privilege of dumping Joseph who is actually decent depth.... blows the mind.

thank Alfie Dorion will no longer be in charge.

 

[UglyPuckling]

So you're saying that Dorion has nothing to do with this rebuild right? But I'm sure you will be the first to blame him if the team doesn't make the playoff this year? So if the rebuild is successful it's because of everyone else but Dorion and if it fails all the blames goes to Dorion?

It's alright to criticize the GM, but to try to erase all the good work he did he's not right imo. To say that Dorion did a good job doesn't mean that he will not be held accountable if the team don't make the playoff this year. He should just like the coach that\s pro sports.

You are quick to make an "assumption" without really know the poster's intent.

 

[swiftwin]

i dont even care about Boucher that much but the thought of losing him for nothing just for the privilege of dumping Joseph who is actually decent depth.... blows the mind.

thank Alfie Dorion will no longer be in charge.

... for the privilege of signing Tarasenko

If we don't sign Trasenko, this is a non-issue.

I'd trade Boucher + Joseph for Tarasenko any day of the week.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

i dont even care about Boucher that much but the thought of losing him for nothing just for the privilege of dumping Joseph who is actually decent depth.... blows the mind.

thank Alfie Dorion will no longer be in charge.

So far from the truth.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

... for the privilege of signing Tarasenko

If we don't sign Trasenko, this is a non-issue.

I'd trade Boucher + Joseph for Tarasenko any day of the week.

No, if Dorion didn't do his Murray, MDZ and White f***ery it's a non issue.

Also makes you wonder what the plan was going to be with DBC all along. Just sacrifice a 7th overall for a 1 year rental to try and save his job?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

So far from the truth.

You've already been demonstrably wrong on one of these snide remarks in this very thread, care to back up your reasoning?

 

[milkbag]

You've already been demonstrably wrong on one of these snide remarks in this very thread, care to back up your reasoning?

Nah, he'll just delete the whole comment chain like nothing happened as he usually does when he gets called out and embarrassed

 

[JackieDaytona]

Nothing wrong with liking Boucher and seeing potential. I just think losing him vs other options for the short and medium term is likely the one that stings the least. Dorion put himself in this position, it’s going to cost him to get out. I think Boucher is a smaller loss than Brannstrom or Joseph tbh. But it still is a loss.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Branstrom is the obvious trade. Joseph should stay, you don’t sweeten with a first or Boucher, and you don’t trade Kubalik.

I don’t buy any of these Rumours in terms of our interest. I think Philly would love to make those trades, and I don’t think the Sens would be interested in either.

Joseph is a normal season away from being worth a roster spot or trade return, and a first or Boucher is just dumb when we could either send a guy down, let Pinto sit, trade a player without a sweetener, or a combo of the above.

I just don’t see the need for drastic moves to find a million bucks.