Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Micklebot]

Different years. But idk what point you're trying to make

They were both acquired in 2020 about a week apart but I also don't get the point...

Maybe he's saying Dorion was given the ability to spend and make moves, ie acquiring them?

 

[JD1]

They were both acquired in 2020 about a week apart but I also don't get the point...

Maybe he's saying Dorion was given the ability to spend and make moves, ie acquiring them?

Yep, you're right. Same year.

 

[Loach]

They were both acquired in 2020 about a week apart but I also don't get the point...

Maybe he's saying Dorion was given the ability to spend and make moves, ie acquiring them?

Yup

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I'll admit it. I like DJ and think he's good for the team. I blame goaltending and injuries for last season's playoff miss... not DJ. And for his previous three seasons, he wasn't really given a chance to have success.

I think you guys over value the importance of a head coach. Obviously there has to be someone in charge on the bench and in the room but the team captain and assistants have a much bigger impact. The head coach gives his pre game message and it either motivates the players or it doesn't. Based on DJ's popularity, I would say he is motivating.

Every team in the NHL plays the same way. I've heard players say that. The best teams just execute better than the poor teams. But to think that one coach can out coach another... I don't buy it.

Full disclosure; I never played organized hockey as a youth and never had a hockey coach so I could be wrong about this.

Yeah, I'd say you're off base on this one.

Coaches make a world of difference. Communication, motivation of individual players, ability to adjust in-game and between games, attentions to detail with the team and certain players and maintaining respect and authority over the years vary wildly from coach to coach. Even at the NHL level. You need look no further than the turnaround this team had when Jacques Martin came onboard.

If anything I'd say captain makes not much difference in many, but not all, cases. You don't need Mark Messier as captain if your core group of players are hardworking and play for each other. A young team just starting out, however, likely benefits greatly from a strong veteran captain.

 

[Micklebot]

Yup

It certainly showed some mid term commitment to spending given we knew we needed to keep room for Tkachuk, Stü and Norris who would all need new contracts during Dadonovs commitment but we only spend about 72 mil of a 82 mil cap that year.

 

[Loach]

It certainly showed some mid term commitment to spending given we knew we needed to keep room for Tkachuk, Stü and Norris who would all need new contracts during Dadonovs commitment but we only spend about 72 mil of a 82 mil cap that year.

Agreed.

 

[JD1]

Yeah, I'd say you're off base on this one.

Coaches make a world of difference. Communication, motivation of individual players, ability to adjust in-game and between games, attentions to detail with the team and certain players and maintaining respect and authority over the years vary wildly from coach to coach. Even at the NHL level. You need look no further than the turnaround this team had when Jacques Martin came onboard.

If anything I'd say captain makes not much difference in many, but not all, cases. You don't need Mark Messier as captain if your core group of players are hardworking and play for each other. A young team just starting out, however, likely benefits greatly from a strong veteran captain.

I think coaching made a bigger difference years back than it does today.

Today, there's video tape from everything. You can break down data on what teams do, on how other teams stopped it etc. Almost every team buys advanced stats data from the same company. There's just so much more information available.

I think a lot comes down to players being able to play the system. Look at our PP. Outhouse to the penthouse in one season while losing our top PP shooter. Same system. Did the coaching change? No. Players got better at executing the entries.

Players also get input in today's game. Used to be more of a dictatorship

Yes, coaching matters. I'm not sure it matters as much as it once did.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Blows my mind people think Dorion should be kept if the team has a good season. Talk about "what have you done for me lately".

This is a guy who a summer ago spent Gustavsson, 7th OVR, 39th OVR and 10M in cap on DeBrincat and Talbot, and now all we have to show for it is Kubalik and a 2024 1st, which is likely to be mid-late.

This off-season he signed an inconsistent goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal and tried to offer Tarasenko 22M over 4YRs, which thankfully he turned down.

And like Loach pointed out, two off-seasons ago he gave 25M/4YRs to Murray and 15M/3YRs to Dadonov.

The guy can't be trusted to properly manage assets or money. Should be shown the door ASAP.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Blows my mind people think Dorion should be kept if the team has a good season. Talk about "what have you done for me lately".

This is a guy who a summer ago spent Gustavsson, 7th OVR, 39th OVR and 10M in cap on DeBrincat and Talbot, and now all we have to show for it is Kubalik and a 2024 1st, which is likely to be mid-late.

This off-season he signed an inconsistent goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal and tried to offer Tarasenko 22M over 4YRs, which thankfully he turned down.

And like Loach pointed out, two off-seasons ago he gave 25M/4YRs to Murray and 15M/3YRs to Dadonov.

The guy can't be trusted to properly manage assets or money. Should be shown the door ASAP.

I'm hopeful that Korpi turns out better but I can't believe that Dorion was allowed to make another long term goalie signing after Murray. The keys to THAT ride at least should have been taken from him forever.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Blows my mind people think Dorion should be kept if the team has a good season. Talk about "what have you done for me lately".

This is a guy who a summer ago spent Gustavsson, 7th OVR, 39th OVR and 10M in cap on DeBrincat and Talbot, and now all we have to show for it is Kubalik and a 2024 1st, which is likely to be mid-late.

This off-season he signed an inconsistent contract goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal and tried to offer Tarasenko 22M over 4YRs, which thankfully he turned down.

And like Loach pointed out, two off-seasons ago he gave 25M/4YRs to Murray and 15M/3YRs to Dadonov.

The guy can't be trusted to properly manage assets or money. Should be shown the door ASAP.

Korpisalo was a good signing,1 year too long for me, but best UFA goalie available, that was the number one need.
Plus his numbers improved after the surgery, especially as season went along.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm hopeful that Korpi turns out better but I can't believe that Dorion was allowed to make another long term goalie signing after Murray. The keys to THAT ride at least should have been taken from him forever.

At least he seems to have approached it from a different angle,

Instead of getting a guy who had past success but was struggling with current health issues, he get a guy who had recovered from past injuries and was currently having success

Instead of giving a guy big money and one of the highest cap hits for a goalie, he gave among the lower starter AAVs

If it works out we could have a steal.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Cap hit was 6.4, salary was 9, but we know you like to exaggerate the facts, or just get them wrong.

Korpisalo was a good signing,1 year too long for me, but best UFA goalie available, that was the number one need.

DeBrincat + Talbot was 10M in cap, but 12M in salary.

You do realize that's worse right? Or did you just misunderstand and think I mean DeBrincat alone made 10M? Either way, embarrassing.

 

[Golden_Jet]

DeBrincat + Talbot was 10M in cap, but 12M in salary.

You do realize that's worse right? Or did you just misunderstand and think I mean DeBrincat alone made 10M? Either way, embarrassing.

Reading comprehension, missed Talbot. Fixed it thanks.

 

[Micklebot]

This off-season he signed an inconsistent goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal

I think that deal has the potential to be a good one, hip issues played into his inconsistency and he seems to have that resolved. It's not the direction I'd have gone, but at 4 mil he's among the lower paid starters, the deal shouldn't cripple us if it doesn't work out.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think that deal has the potential to be a good one, hip issues played into his inconsistency and he seems to have that resolved. It's not the direction I'd have gone, but at 4 mil he's among the lower paid starters, the deal shouldn't cripple us if it doesn't work out.

Giving up so much term provides potential upside if Korpisalo emerges as a consistent #1, but I would argue it was an unnecessary risk to take given the alternatives.

Korpisalo's numbers and inconsistency mirror that of Laurent Brossoit, and the latter got 1.75M/1YR while Korpisalo got 20M/5YRs.

I said the same thing about Murray's extension, as well as the premature extension Dorion gave to a then 36YR old Craig Anderson back in 2017.

Both backfired tremendously. Dorion loves to throw term at goaltenders and it hasn't worked out whatsoever. Hopefully this time is different.

 

[Micklebot]

Giving up so much term provides potential upside if Korpisalo emerges as a consistent #1, but I would argue it was an unnecessary risk to take given the alternatives.

Korpisalo's numbers and inconsistency mirror that of Laurent Brossoit, and the latter got 1.75M/1YR while Korpisalo got 20M/5YRs.

I said the same thing about Murray's extension, as well as the premature extension Dorion gave to a then 36YR old Craig Anderson back in 2017.

Both backfired tremendously. Dorion loves to throw term at goaltenders and it hasn't worked out whatsoever. Hopefully this time is different.

Well there in lies the challenge, you can get unproven guys with potential upside as a starter like Brossoit for 1 year on a low dollar deal, but you can only get a steal of a deal over the long haul by rolling the dice and giving term before they prove they are worth far more.

We're definitely rolling the dice, but given his salary, I don't think the risk is too high though, unlike when we rolled the dice with Murray.

 

[Cosmix]

Blows my mind people think Dorion should be kept if the team has a good season. Talk about "what have you done for me lately".

This is a guy who a summer ago spent Gustavsson, 7th OVR, 39th OVR and 10M in cap on DeBrincat and Talbot, and now all we have to show for it is Kubalik and a 2024 1st, which is likely to be mid-late.

This off-season he signed an inconsistent goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal and tried to offer Tarasenko 22M over 4YRs, which thankfully he turned down.

And like Loach pointed out, two off-seasons ago he gave 25M/4YRs to Murray and 15M/3YRs to Dadonov.

The guy can't be trusted to properly manage assets or money. Should be shown the door ASAP.

Dorion should be first out the door, before DJ goes too. The new GM should be given the green light to hire his own choices for assistant GMs, HC and assistant coaches, scouting staff, development staff, etc.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion should be first out the door, before DJ goes too. The new GM should be given the green light to hire his own choices for assistant GMs, HC and assistant coaches, scouting staff, development staff, etc.

Assistant GMs , Head Scouts ...

 

[BigRig4]

Well there in lies the challenge, you can get unproven guys with potential upside as a starter like Brossoit for 1 year on a low dollar deal, but you can only get a steal of a deal over the long haul by rolling the dice and giving term before they prove they are worth far more.

We're definitely rolling the dice, but given his salary, I don't think the risk is too high though, unlike when we rolled the dice with Murray.

I'm still lukewarm on the signing but I think a big difference between Korpisalo and Murray is that Korpisalo had his flash this past season, whereas Murray was coming off consecutive poor seasons and we were hoping he would return to form. Would much rather gamble on the former.

 

[aragorn]

Dorion should be first out the door, before DJ goes too. The new GM should be given the green light to hire his own choices for assistant GMs, HC and assistant coaches, scouting staff, development staff, etc.

Don't you think firing everyone in a yr where we are expected to make the playoffs would cause some upheaval & potentially set us back rather than forward for a while at least & maybe cost us a playoff berth next yr? If they get off to a poor start than I would expect someone to get fired, but not everyone all at once. And if they get off to a good start than the point is moot because I doubt they fire anyone when they are doing well, but we shall see. soon enough.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I'm hopeful that Korpi turns out better but I can't believe that Dorion was allowed to make another long term goalie signing after Murray. The keys to THAT ride at least should have been taken from him forever.

So PD should NOT have acquired a goaltender…. So who would have been the Starter and the Back up?

And what should he have done with the Cap Space allocated to Korp?

 

[TeamRenzo]

So PD should NOT have acquired a goaltender…. So who would have been the Starter and the Back up?

And what should he have done with the Cap Space allocated to Korp?

I don't necessarily love the Korpisalo signing but we needed a goalie and probably had to over pay to get him

 

[bert]

Blows my mind people think Dorion should be kept if the team has a good season. Talk about "what have you done for me lately".

This is a guy who a summer ago spent Gustavsson, 7th OVR, 39th OVR and 10M in cap on DeBrincat and Talbot, and now all we have to show for it is Kubalik and a 2024 1st, which is likely to be mid-late.

This off-season he signed an inconsistent goalie with a career .904 SV% to a 20M/5YR deal and tried to offer Tarasenko 22M over 4YRs, which thankfully he turned down.

And like Loach pointed out, two off-seasons ago he gave 25M/4YRs to Murray and 15M/3YRs to Dadonov.

The guy can't be trusted to properly manage assets or money. Should be shown the door ASAP.

He's done don't worry. What I find the most mind boggling is people who blame DJ before Dorion.

 

[Big Muddy]

Don't you think firing everyone in a yr where we are expected to make the playoffs would cause some upheaval & potentially set us back rather than forward for a while at least & maybe cost us a playoff berth next yr? If they get off to a poor start than I would expect someone to get fired, but not everyone all at once. And if they get off to a good start than the point is moot because I doubt they fire anyone when they are doing well, but we shall see. soon enough.

Assuming Andlauer hasn't already made plans, they could hire people for interim positions, no? Its happened in many times in the past.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Assuming Andlauer hasn't already made plans, they could hire people for interim positions, no? Its happened in many times in the past.

No, I don’t think that happens, it will be a permanent hire,