Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Butchy Dakkar]

Wonder if the Sens hockey ops even has a cap expert. Went from a team that didn't need to worry about the cap because they were at the floor, to screwing themselves in 1 off-season.

Doesn't appear to have been any coherent plan for that transition. A bunch of dead money, and a self-inflicted problem with the Debrincat situation.

Unable to sign any solid wingers that are sorely needed. Will end up trading DBC for depth pieces. So basically the 7th overall for guys that could have been found in free agency if some foresight had been applied.

Now they are relying on guys like Smejkal and Sokolov to be full-time NHL players. No depth last year, and possibly even less this season, especially up front. Any injuries, which will happen, and AHL players will be filling out the NHL roster again.

Really feels like Dorion has boxed himself into a corner, and with the new boss watching how this off-season unfolds closely.

If this team is going to make the playoffs, it relies on Stutzle and Sanderson taking another massive step and becoming top 5-10 players at their positions. I think that could happen, but give them some insulation.

Short term pain, but some of those ~8 mill contracts should look like steals when the cap goes up. In 2-4 years when we are hopefully peak contending potential it should give us room to manoeuvre and add pieces. Or so I tell myself!

 

[swiftwin]

So you're saying Duclair had at least some positive value?

Duclair signed for 3M after 72 points in 109 games.

We decided to willingly use that same money on a guy with 49 points in 125 games. I guess you prefer players that require good assets attached to them just for another team to take them.

We ended up using that money on Dadonov, who ended up having more value than Duclair.

Holden + 3rd > Lorentz + 5th.

 

[Dionysus]

Short term pain, but some of those ~8 mill contracts should look like steals when the cap goes up. In 2-4 years when we are hopefully peak contending potential it should give us room to manoeuvre and add pieces. Or so I tell myself!

Agreed. Just need to fill in around Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson. Personally I don't think PD is the guy to do it. I'm excited to watch this core develop that is for sure!

 

[Tragedy]

We ended up using that money on Dadonov, who ended up having more value than Duclair.

Holden + 3rd > Lorentz + 5th.

Are you intentionally ignoring that Duclair tore his achilles tendon because that doesn't help your narrative you're weaving here?

I get it. Dorion takes more shit here than he might necessarily deserve but pretending like every move he makes is some 400IQ move is ridiculous.

 

[Micklebot]

We ended up using that money on Dadonov, who ended up having more value than Duclair.

Holden + 3rd > Lorentz + 5th.

Well that's just a touch disingenuous, Duclair blew out his Achilles, prior to that he had 90 pts in 117 games,

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Are you intentionally ignoring that Duclair tore his achilles tendon because that doesn't help your narrative you're weaving here?

I get it. Dorion takes more shit here than he might necessarily deserve but pretending like every move he makes is some 400IQ move is ridiculous.

Also two different markets .. This year is as strange as its been for players moving and signing as free agents at really low points

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Well that's just a touch disingenuous, Duclair blew out his Achilles, prior to that he had 90 pts in 117 games,

Dorion knew that was going to happen. People here can’t recognize his genius.

 

[swiftwin]

Also two different markets .. This year is as strange as its been for players moving and signing as free agents at really low points

Oh, I see, so now the market matters...

But the market didn't matter when Duclair was pending an arbitration during one of the tightest and most uncertain markets, right smack in the middle of COVID? When he ended up getting only $1.6m instead of the expected $3.5-4m he likely would have gotten had he gone to arbitration?

The mental gymnastics to prove that not re-signing Duclair was a mistake is getting out of control.

Are you intentionally ignoring that Duclair tore his achilles tendon because that doesn't help your narrative you're weaving here?

I get it. Dorion takes more shit here than he might necessarily deserve but pretending like every move he makes is some 400IQ move is ridiculous.

It's not some 400IQ move. Letting Duclair walk was basic common sense, which is apparently lost on some people around here.

It was obvious when he ended up signing for a mere $1.6m. Then people argued it doesn't matter, and that Duclair had a ton a value as an asset. Which was again proven wrong with this trade.

edit: Now I see that the new excuse is the injury that he suffered.... Sigh... The posts keep moving.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are you intentionally ignoring that Duclair tore his achilles tendon because that doesn't help your narrative you're weaving here?

I get it. Dorion takes more shit here than he might necessarily deserve but pretending like every move he makes is some 400IQ move is ridiculous.

Ottawa offered more than Florida gave him, so Duclair fired his agent and took less money, doing his own negotiating.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Oh, I see, so now the market matters...

But the market didn't matter when Duclair was pending an arbitration during one of the tightest and most uncertain markets, right smack in the middle of COVID? When he ended up getting only $1.6m instead of the expected $3.5-4m he likely would have gotten had he gone to arbitration?

The mental gymnastics to prove that not re-signing Duclair was a mistake is getting out of control.


It's not some 400IQ move. Letting Duclair walk was basic common sense, which is apparently lost on some people around here.

It was obvious when he ended up signing for a mere $1.6m. Then people argued it doesn't matter, and that Duclair had a ton a value as an asset. Which was again proven wrong with this trade.

Are you not the one dragging this out .. to tell us how great Dorion is?

I am willing to let it go if you are. Note: our relative opinions of Dorion stay the same..

Lastly we know you are a very bright fan and there is no need to constantly try to prove that.

 

[swiftwin]

Are you not the one dragging this out .. to tell us how great Dorion is?

I am willing to let it go if you are. Note: our relative opinions of Dorion stay the same..

Lastly we know you are a very bright fan and there is no need to constantly try to prove that.

I'm not the one dragging this out. I replied to a post from last month where the following was said:

Letting him go for nothing was incredibly stupid and it's honestly unbelievable even the biggest Dorion bootlickers try to defend it. - @Hale The Villain

You're damn right I'm going to bring that up when this trade happens just one month later.

Y'all are getting upset, that once again, I'm proven right. Deal with it.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Seeing Columbus draft Fantilli 3rd overall and then use their 2nd rounder to draft his (very good) teammate Gavin Brindley reminded me of Dorion & team missing out on drafting Stützle’s fellow German Peterka in 2020. Just an easy lay up that they airballed

Swap him with Jarventie and the 2020 draft would have been legendary

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Uhmm, looks like Trotz is taking a page out of the Sens book and going big on character….

What an idiot. Replace him with a real GM, not a yes man.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorion knew that was going to happen. People here can’t recognize his genius.

No one can be faulted. It takes a genius to know another genius.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm not the one dragging this out. I replied to a post from last month where the following was said:

Letting him go for nothing was incredibly stupid and it's honestly unbelievable even the biggest Dorion bootlickers try to defend it. - @Hale The Villain

You're damn right I'm going to bring that up when this trade happens just one month later.

Y'all are getting upset, that once again, I'm proven right. Deal with it.

For the record I am not upset. I hope you have found bringing it up to your satisfaction.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

No. I see him as having an objective and vision for the team and hiring a competent GM who shares his vision and approach

well you were commenting on what Trotz was doing, as GM in Nashville, and wishing Andlauer, an owner, would emulate him.

To me that sounded like wishing an owner would be as involved as a GM.

you did not mention his hiring a new GM …. So you can see the confusion.

 

[Tragedy]

Oh, I see, so now the market matters...

But the market didn't matter when Duclair was pending an arbitration during one of the tightest and most uncertain markets, right smack in the middle of COVID? When he ended up getting only $1.6m instead of the expected $3.5-4m he likely would have gotten had he gone to arbitration?

The mental gymnastics to prove that not re-signing Duclair was a mistake is getting out of control.


It's not some 400IQ move. Letting Duclair walk was basic common sense, which is apparently lost on some people around here.

It was obvious when he ended up signing for a mere $1.6m. Then people argued it doesn't matter, and that Duclair had a ton a value as an asset. Which was again proven wrong with this trade.

edit: Now I see that the new excuse is the injury that he suffered.... Sigh... The posts keep moving.

If the posts keep moving maybe you should put them back in the ground then.

Was your argument not that Dadonov was the better signing because he was flipped for more value then vs what Duclair was flipped for now?

Dadonov was signed for 5AAV which is over this perceived $3.5-$4 that you've decided is now the law and in no way is pulled out of your ass.

So Dorion is a 400IQ gigabrain because he passed on going to Arb with Duclair where he could have got ~4M and instead signed a player for 5M. Well, I guess that is ok, lets just take a look at the stats they had to see which player performed better....hmmm Dadonov had 20 points in 55 games and was -9. Ok, well that doesn't seem very good, but I bet Duclair was worse because of how badly you are pumping this deal. Hmmm... 32 points in 43 games and +27.

Now I am no Brandon Pridham but it sure kinda seems like a player who was paid less and scored more is a better bang for your buck.

 

[Cosmix]

Uhmm, looks like Trotz is taking a page out of the Sens book and going big on character….

We are big on "characters"!

 

[Big Muddy]

WELL WELL WELL.....



Duclair ended up getting traded for a 5th round pick and an AHLer/4th liner, despite being on a smaller contract than the one that was speculated he'd get in arbitration.

Looks like Dorion has been proven right, and you're been proven wrong once again..... It was your suggestion that was incredibly stupid after all.

Seems like the Panthers had some cap issues, no?

Even after trading Duclair they still only have about $300 k of cap space.

This summer's market has been crazy with a lot of good/decent players being moved for peanuts.

 

[Tragedy]

Seems like the Panthers had some cap issues, no?

Even after trading Duclair they still only have about $300 k of cap space.

This summer's market has been crazy with a lot of good/decent players being moved for peanuts.

No no no. It's because Duclair is bad and Dorion could see that years ago. He's a super genius

 

[swiftwin]

For the record I am not upset. I hope you have found bringing it up to your satisfaction.

It has. When people are this hostile and toxic about it, it absolutely is satisfying to bring it up

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Sun God Nika]

Doesn't sound good for Hammy.

looking for trades to acquire players in bottom 6 or bottom D pair.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Doesn't sound good for Hammy.

looking for trades to acquire players in bottom 6 or bottom D pair.

Not sure what you mean , Hammy is a third pairing guy.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Not sure what you mean , Hammy is a third pairing guy.

Says he is talking to teams. Didnt mention free agents.