Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Golden_Jet]

No idea why you think this is a valid reply to my post. I'll leave it at that because at some point, there's nothing else to do

Unless you deliberately use semantics when you know exactly what I mean? That's some weak sauce

7 years ALREADY, reading comprehension still. If you stop posting incorrect statements, would be nice for all us.
Maybe not get so triggered all the time , when people disagree with you.
Enjoy the banter,

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorian did good... Is good

 

[JungleBeat]

I swear to god if Yzerman wasn't a god in Detroit, or if his TB scouts hadn't hit so big on so many players for him, I wonder how badly people would be cutting him up for his team in Detroit today?

Seriously. Go look at all of his drafts and try not to puke a bit. It's so depressing considering how bad they were over the same stretch as we were. It's not just the high picks they lost out on in the lottery that's killing them, they are striking out all over the board when it comes to finding core players.

And his FA signings and trades are even less impressive than his picks somehow. This team is going to have to rebuild again before it ever even got started. I see no future where that core can hang with the rest of the Atlantic.

This is not an endorsement for Dorion, but holy mother of God he's built a far superior team in every way to what is considered be an "elite" GM. And he did it on a shoe string budget.

Yzerman didn’t have:

#1C in Duchene
#1D in Karlsson
#1W in Stone

And much more to trade and start a rebuild. Try using basic key points before starting some weak discourse to try and pump Dorions tires.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yzerman didn’t have:

#1C in Duchene
#1D in Karlsson
#1W in Stone

And much more to trade and start a rebuild. Try using basic key points before starting some weak discourse to try and pump Dorions tires.

It also started 2-3 years before SY got there.

 

[Micklebot]

Yzerman didn’t have:

#1C in Duchene
#1D in Karlsson
#1W in Stone

And much more to trade and start a rebuild. Try using basic key points before starting some weak discourse to try and pump Dorions tires.

The one place he's had success he started with Lecavalier, Stamkos, StLouis, and Hedman.

I'm curious to see how things turn out in Det, trading off Hronek and Bertuzzi is a bit of a roll of the dice, but I do like Seider and Edvinsson.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I’m good…just call it like I sees it. Dorion’s an asshole

Geez man, you can‘t even get your Hero songs right!

 

[Ice-Tray]

Me in 2020: “I think it’s time for the Sens to move on from Craig Anderson.”

Me in 2023: “I really think Dorion is a dink for how he told Craig Anderson he wasn’t offering him a contract back in 2020.”

Do you really think those two sentences “don’t make consistent sense”?

Ohhhhh I’m a long standing member of HFSens, it passes for perfect sense in here lol

I think if you wanted to better reflect the behaviour though, you in 2020 would be a lot more of a dink in here towards Anderson (and Neiler and Phillips, and every other Sens legend that you tried to run out of the league but now love so much) than Dorion was allegedly towards Anderson.

The difference of course was that you would have actually posted lots of dink things all season, where as PD seems to have been abrupt in this single conversation with Andy.

It’s not the way I would like to think I would have handled that conversation either, but I definitly find it ironic that the same group in here like to pretend as though they have some leg to stand on in terms of human decency.

The proof is in the threads as usual.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Mixed bag. Love what he's done with the core contracts. Not in love with some other things. Next step is an area Dorion has not proven effective at, yet at least.

 

[swiftwin]

Mixed bag. Love what he's done with the core contracts. Not in love with some other things. Next step is an area Dorion has not proven effective at, yet at least.

You sure about that? In one season, he brought this team from a non-playoff team to an ECF finalist that did well enough in the regular season to have home ice advantage through the first two rounds against Boston and the Rangers.

There's a reason he was nominated for GM of the year that season.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Ohhhhh I’m a long standing member of HFSens, it passes for perfect sense in here lol

I think if you wanted to better reflect the behaviour though, you in 2020 would be a lot more of a dink in here towards Anderson (and Neiler and Phillips, and every other Sens legend that you tried to run out of the league but now love so much) than Dorion was allegedly towards Anderson.

The difference of course was that you would have actually posted lots of dink things all season, where as PD seems to have been abrupt in this single conversation with Andy.

It’s not the way I would like to think I would have handled that conversation either, but I definitly find it ironic that the same group in here like to pretend as though they have some leg to stand on in terms of human decency.

The proof is in the threads as usual.

There's a pretty colossal difference between a poster on a message board and the General Manager of an NHL team. There's no expectation of professionalism on these boards. None of us are getting paid to do it and none of our posts, "dink"y or otherwise, have very much impact on how the team is viewed. It's not a fair standard by which to compare.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Mixed bag. Love what he's done with the core contracts. Not in love with some other things. Next step is an area Dorion has not proven effective at, yet at least.

It would be interesting to see what his capabilities would be if he had a fully fleshed out staff, including some extra, qualified hires in the pro scouting department, another AGM or special advisor and an experienced hockey person as POHO to bounce ideas off of. The work he's done on such limited resources is pretty good. Are the edge pieces that separate contenders from pretenders out of his skillset or is he missing the right tools to accomplish the task?

 

[Samsquanch]

Yzerman didn’t have:

#1C in Duchene
#1D in Karlsson
#1W in Stone

And much more to trade and start a rebuild. Try using basic key points before starting some weak discourse to try and pump Dorions tires.

Whatever you say chief. Yzerman is f***ing it up in Detroit...

 

[Senator Stanley]

It would be interesting to see what his capabilities would be if he had a fully fleshed out staff, including some extra, qualified hires in the pro scouting department, another AGM or special advisor and an experienced hockey person as POHO to bounce ideas off of. The work he's done on such limited resources is pretty good. Are the edge pieces that separate contenders from pretenders out of his skillset or is he missing the right tools to accomplish the task?

I get the sense that he prefers a small and non-threatening staff.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You sure about that? In one season, he brought this team from a non-playoff team to an ECF finalist that did well enough in the regular season to have home ice advantage through the first two rounds against Boston and the Rangers.

There's a reason he was nominated for GM of the year that season.

I dont think what he did that year was particularly earth shattering to the cause. He mostly inhereted a team and added some guys that while they played admirably, werent needle movers.

It would be interesting to see what his capabilities would be if he had a fully fleshed out staff, including some extra, qualified hires in the pro scouting department, another AGM or special advisor and an experienced hockey person as POHO to bounce ideas off of. The work he's done on such limited resources is pretty good. Are the edge pieces that separate contenders from pretenders out of his skillset or is he missing the right tools to accomplish the task?

Certainly could help. Im open to finding out. Dont fault anyone that doesnt want to go there though.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I like to think proactively, so I was looking at contracts regarding players that could fill in at 2LW if we are forced to trade DeBrincat for pennies on the dollar.

Keller is the name that sticks out as a good balance of cap hit, term, and possible availability. My guess is Pinto++ would need to be involved just to get the ball rolling. Even then, I'm not sure he's high-end enough for them to consider moving Keller who just had a career year.

Aiming a little lower, Farabee looks to be the best target. Not sure what the asking price would be though. I would hope it's not Pinto, but wouldn't blame Flyers fans if it was.

FTW I don't see where Pinto fits in long term. I expect him to sign a 2yr bridge deal shortly, and he'll be too good to be a 3C as soon as his next contract after that. Basically, I think we will be forced to trade him in the 2025 off-season. I see Greig as a better 3C long term because he plays a game more suited to the bottom 6, as well as having a lower offensive ceiling which should keep his salary more in line with his role.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

Dorion made some poor moves, most notably the Zibanejad deal and the Duchene rental, the rebuild taking very long is a valid criticism as well, however I can look past all that because the team is looking really good contract/cap-wise right now.

When the ownership changes he'll be done as GM which will be the spiritual end the Bryan Murray era. But the team is going to benefit greatly from the Brady and Timmy contracts he signed for the better part of the next decade. It's been a rocky road with him, but he is gonna leave things in good shape for the next GM. I can't hate.

 

[Xspyrit]

Naw, you just lost Melnyk as the focus of your bitter cynicism and simply shifted it to the next guy.

This site is just bitter fans venting personal issues online. It’s sad, but I’m hoping a winning team will see a return of the regular posters and we can drown out the personal issues.

1- I am not a bitter person at all, I'm actually more positive than the average person despite everything I've been through. I am just among those who are able to call a spade a spade. This product that we all have invested a lot of time/money in has been sucking for a while and many of us just want change, a new vision.

2- I didn't have to "shift" anything, it's just that at some point, my eyes opened a little bit more. I used to give Dorion the benefit of the doubt and even tried to defend him but some posters saw the light early. Selling your best assets to the highest bidders or draft in the top-5 is not the hardest part of a rebuild, actually it should be pretty easy. I remember discussions with @Sens of Anarchy and well, he was right about many things. My POV and analysis on the situation has just grown over the years with all the new elements coming in. Some people decide to just blindly support current management and it's ok, it's their choice. The problem is more that they don't leave people in peace who don't support them

3- There's absolutely nothing personal about this and lol it doesn't fix any personal problem if I criticize Dorion for the work he has done or not done. I want to continue to dedicate time and resources on this team but apathy came early again. I was actually planning trips to Ottawa this season until the season was already over in November, again.

This is not an endorsement for Dorion, but holy mother of God he's built a far superior team in every way to what is considered be an "elite" GM. And he did it on a shoe string budget.

It's not going to be efficient to compare Yzerman with Dorion's work. One inherited assets like Karlsson, Stone, Turris/Duchene, Chabot, Zibanejad/Brassard... etc. The other one started with... Larkin, Tatar and Nyquist?

The total insult to injury would be that Detroit or Montreal make the playoffs before us. That would be one of the biggest failures in recent history, certainly up there with the Sabres, Oilers, Leafs decades of insignificance. That would revoke any Sens fan "right" to laugh at anything the Leafs did or do.

 

[swiftwin]

I dont think what he did that year was particularly earth shattering to the cause. He mostly inhereted a team and added some guys that while they played admirably, werent needle movers.

Exactly. We don't need any major "needle movers" right now. The core of this team is solid. We need to add depth players who "play admirably".

 

[Xspyrit]

Seriously, for the whole firesale, we pretty much only got pieces from 2 trades. Karlsson and Pageau. Outside and Brannstrom, there's basically nothing from all the rest (still have some hope for JBD to be a reliable D-man)... that includes Duchene, Stone, Brassard, Hoffman, Dzingel and Ceci

We could have had Gustavsson from the Brassard trade but nope. Selling is the easiest part but we didn't maximize it at all. The Stone situation really hurts. Thankfully Trent Mann (hired in 2011) drafting gave us a future

7 years ALREADY, reading comprehension still. If you stop posting incorrect statements, would be nice for all us.
Maybe not get so triggered all the time , when people disagree with you.
Enjoy the banter,

Last time we were in playoffs? 2017. Next time we could possibly be in the playoffs? 2024 so yeah, 7 years already

No amount of semantics or disingenuity can change facts. I'm not triggered at all, this is quite amusing

 

[Cosmix]

Dorion made some poor moves, most notably the Zibanejad deal and the Duchene rental, the rebuild taking very long is a valid criticism as well, however I can look past all that because the team is looking really good contract/cap-wise right now.

When the ownership changes he'll be done as GM which will be the spiritual end the Bryan Murray era. But the team is going to benefit greatly from the Brady and Timmy contracts he signed for the better part of the next decade. It's been a rocky road with him, but he is gonna leave things in good shape for the next GM. I can't hate.

I will be happy when a competent experienced person is appointed as Senator's GM because Dorion's record is poor. Even happier if the new ownership spends to the cap ceiling each year to put the best possible team on the ice. There is no need for a POHO if you have a competent GM and assistants including pro and amateur scouts.

I cannot place all the blame on DJ Smith and the coaching staff for the poor performance over the last few years so I am OK if DJ et al are retained for next season; however, I expect to see progress in the team's ES play, defensive play in their own D zone, and a reduction in shots and goals against. If the team is not competitive and in a playoff position after the first 20 games of next season, then coaching changes need to be made (and might have to wait for a permanent changeover at the end of next season). I don't object to upgrading the coaching staff this summer either.

 

[swiftwin]

Last time we were in playoffs? 2017. Next time we could possibly be in the playoffs? 2024 so yeah, 7 years already

No amount of semantics or disingenuity can change facts. I'm not triggered at all, this is quite amusing

If we make the playoffs next year, that means we'll have played well enough the whole season to no longer be considered "in a rebuild".

It also means we would have missed the playoffs 6 seasons.

Count them:

2017
2018
2019
2020
2021
2022
2023
2024

That's 6 seasons.

Learn to count.

 

[Ouroboros]

If we make the playoffs next year, that means we'll have played well enough the whole season to no longer be considered "in a rebuild".

It also means we would have missed the playoffs 6 seasons.

Count them:

2017
2018
2019
2020
2021
2022
2023
2024

That's 6 seasons.

Learn to count.

It's not even an unusually long drought. It's in line with what many other franchises have gone through.

Carolina - 9 consecutive misses from 2010 to 2018
New Jersey - 1 playoff appearance between 2013 and 2022
Buffalo - 11 consecutive misses from 2012 to today
Detroit - 7 consecutive misses from 2017 to today
Edmonton - 10 consecutive misses from 2007 to 2016, and only 1 playoff appearance over 13 years between 2007 and 2019
Florida - 10 consecutive misses from 2001 to 2011, and only 2 playoff appearances in the 18 years between 2001 and 2019
Arizona - 1 playoff appearance in the last 11 years, and that was the nonsense COVID playoffs
Toronto - 7 consecutive misses from 2006 to 2012, and only 1 playoff appearance between 2006 and 2016

San Jose are currently at 4 years with no end in sight. Anaheim are at 5.

Rebuilding is difficult, and unless you win a draft lottery with a mega-talent at the top [Rudy Balcers, for example] or are one of the handful of desirable markets that can attract elite talent for non hockey reasons [NYR, Vegas, Tampa, etc.], it takes a long time

 

[Ice-Tray]

1- I am not a bitter person at all, I'm actually more positive than the average person despite everything I've been through. I am just among those who are able to call a spade a spade. This product that we all have invested a lot of time/money in has been sucking for a while and many of us just want change, a new vision.

2- I didn't have to "shift" anything, it's just that at some point, my eyes opened a little bit more. I used to give Dorion the benefit of the doubt and even tried to defend him but some posters saw the light early. Selling your best assets to the highest bidders or draft in the top-5 is not the hardest part of a rebuild, actually it should be pretty easy. I remember discussions with @Sens of Anarchy and well, he was right about many things. My POV and analysis on the situation has just grown over the years with all the new elements coming in. Some people decide to just blindly support current management and it's ok, it's their choice. The problem is more that they don't leave people in peace who don't support them

3- There's absolutely nothing personal about this and lol it doesn't fix any personal problem if I criticize Dorion for the work he has done or not done. I want to continue to dedicate time and resources on this team but apathy came early again. I was actually planning trips to Ottawa this season until the season was already over in November, again.



It's not going to be efficient to compare Yzerman with Dorion's work. One inherited assets like Karlsson, Stone, Turris/Duchene, Chabot, Zibanejad/Brassard... etc. The other one started with... Larkin, Tatar and Nyquist?

The total insult to injury would be that Detroit or Montreal make the playoffs before us. That would be one of the biggest failures in recent history, certainly up there with the Sabres, Oilers, Leafs decades of insignificance. That would revoke any Sens fan "right" to laugh at anything the Leafs did or do.

Well I’ll take your word for it, but it at least appears as though you’re having a hard time letting go of past grievances.

Whatever, have a great summer. New season is coming.

It's not even an unusually long drought. It's in line with what many other franchises have gone through.

Carolina - 9 consecutive misses from 2010 to 2018
New Jersey - 1 playoff appearance between 2013 and 2022
Buffalo - 11 consecutive misses from 2012 to today
Detroit - 7 consecutive misses from 2017 to today
Edmonton - 10 consecutive misses from 2007 to 2016, and only 1 playoff appearance over 13 years between 2007 and 2019
Florida - 10 consecutive misses from 2001 to 2011, and only 2 playoff appearances in the 18 years between 2001 and 2019
Arizona - 1 playoff appearance in the last 11 years, and that was the nonsense COVID playoffs
Toronto - 7 consecutive misses from 2006 to 2012, and only 1 playoff appearance between 2006 and 2016

San Jose are currently at 4 years with no end in sight. Anaheim are at 5.

Rebuilding is difficult, and unless you win a draft lottery with a mega-talent at the top [Rudy Balcers, for example] or are one of the handful of desirable markets that can attract elite talent for non hockey reasons [NYR, Vegas, Tampa, etc.], it takes a long time

Shhhhhhhh!!! We are singularly terrible and are going through something worse than any other franchise!!!

I wonder how many planned a from the studs rebuild over their droughts? Not really a reason to fire everyone when the plan is being followed as planned….

Anywhoooooo

 

[Sens Vader]

I highly doubt Dorion is let go, but I think having the POHO position filled is most likely once new ownership is in

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I highly doubt Dorion is let go, but I think having the POHO position filled is most likely once new ownership is in

He'll be let go. It probably won't happen this summer due to the ownership delays but there is a chance it will, He is a dead man walking.