Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

[Stonehands1990]

The minutes definitely got away from Keefe last night. I like our new look line of Galchenyuk-Foligno-Nylander. I think Chucky and Foligno together can provide an annoying forecheck. Nylander was great last game and needs more minutes. Our star I was most disappointed in was Marner. He totally shrivelled up. I think that'll change. Matthews led our team in hits and was a force all night. He'll find a way. Our third line can skate like the wind, and the fourth line needs to get a bit nasty to be effective. Minutes ideally should be...
Line 1: 20 minutes
Line 2: 18 minutes
Line 3: 12 minutes
Line 4: 10 minutes
Keep out of the box tonight boys and play like we know you can. I wanna see a statement game

Appreciate the gusto but this doesn’t factor in special teams

 

[Stephen]

I'm a little surprised and disappointed at Keefe's inability to motivate and get his team ready for the playoffs ..

As the favourites they came out flat and lost 2-0 to CBJ last year, and this year a pretty mediocre effort in a 2-1 loss to Montreal (perhaps a little excusable by the JT incident).

When you come in as the favourites and have home ice and last change advantage and loss game #1 in the series, then you have surrendered a big advantage in the series and are already on your heels and playing catch-up, which also turns up the pressure on the team.

If the Leafs lose game #2 and fall behind 0-2 in the series and then need to win 4 of the next 5 to advance, and lot of fingers and eyes will be focused on the Leafs coach.

Just look at how Colorado finishes the season with 5 wins in a row, a Presidents Trophy and pumps St. Louis for 15-5 goals for vs against and a 3-0 lead. They are just frothing at the mouth and destroying whomever they play and we talk about coming out of the gate slowly because the troops aren't sufficiently motivated. Some teams are just killers.

 

[Menzinger]

88 had a good game, but come on, he looked pretty nervous when he shot the puck over the glass for a penalty. Still afraid of physical contact, I don’t get it, he’s a well built player?

Whether or not he looked nervous, he still scored and didn't allow a goal against. He can look however he wants as long as he keeps doing that

 

[mrbagina]

The Leafs have only had the option to play one game so far. Seems pretty absurd to hold the Pens current post season record up as any sort of comparison considering the Leafs haven't even had the opportunity to turn the series into a 2-1 setting (or the fact that the Pens also lost their first playoff game lol)

Perhaps we should let Keefe actually have day to adjust his line properly before whining about who the 2C will be. Especially since as mentioned there are multiple line up options available to the Leafs if indeed Tavares remains out.

I have a family member like the poster you are dealing with. Constant negativity, threatening to stop watching the leafs on a daily basis if they don't "do" what he wants to see happening. Always complaining about Dubas, Keefe, the players, the style of play. Its exhausting for me to listen to it I cant imagine what its like to live it. I keep asking why he keeps watching and why not just cheer for someone else or just stop watching, but I think he just wants to be angry and the leafs give him that opportunity. I have been critical of players and coaches but I actually want to see them do well warts and all, and if they don't succeed, Ill be back next year. Chill out people, this is supposed to be fun.

 

[robertmac43]

People are really reading into Nylander lifting over the glass, he tried to make a play and it came off wrong. Let's not look at that one delay of game play and stupidly continue to go "Nylander is scared".

 

[mrbagina]

People are going to hate it, but Hyman needs to get off the top line. He can be a driving factor on another line, Matthews and Marner don't need him, he is a luxury.

What I could see happening.

Foligno - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Nash - Engvall (talk about low event)
Thornton - Spezza - Simmonds

What I want to happen.

Gally - Matthews - Marner
Foligno - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Engvall - Hyman
Spezza - Brooks - Simmonds

More speed with this line-up and more skill

2nd line up you posted is close to what I'm thinking as well. The only thing I change with the 2nd line up is Foligno to top line. I thought he meshed quite well with M&M and I thought Gally and Nylander looked good together. The 3rd and 4th line were our best bottom lines all year imo.

 

[napoleon in rags]

Here are the NHL stats on game #1 winners and game #2 winners in a 7 game series from NHL.com

Here are the stats: In NHL best-of-seven series,

Game 1 winners have gone 367-164 -- a 69.1 percent winning percentage.

The winner of Game 2 has gone 381-150 -- winning 71.8 percent of the series.

Teams that have won both games to go up, 2-0, have gone 254-37 -- 87.2 percent.

Basically, if you follow up a Game 1 win with another, you've take a firm grip on a series. If you rebound from a Game 1 loss with a Game 2 win, you've rebooted the series and have momentum. And if you lose Game 2 after losing Game 1, you've dug yourself a deep hole.

Based on analytics of past series its imperative that Leafs win game #2 !!!

So the more games one wins, the better ones chances for a series win. Crazy.

 

[Mess]

So the more games one wins, the better ones chances for a series win. Crazy.

No actually game #2 is the biggest deciding factor if you look at that post again.

Winning game #1 is an advantage, but if the Leafs win game #2 today that team jumps out front to a 71.8% chance of winning the series even after losing game #1. Pendulum swings to winner of approximately 72% to 28%, basically nullifying the game #1 loss results and flipping the odds back.

However if the Leafs lose today and go down 0-2 then the team that won both games #1 & #2 has historical 87.2% chance of advancing and the loser only < 13% based on past results.

 

[ottomaddox]

I'm a little surprised and disappointed at Keefe's inability to motivate and get his team ready for the playoffs ..

As the favourites they came out flat and lost 2-0 to CBJ last year, and this year a pretty mediocre effort in a 2-1 loss to Montreal (perhaps a little excusable by the JT incident).

When you come in as the favourites and have home ice and last change advantage and loss game #1 in the series, then you have surrendered a big advantage in the series and are already on your heels and playing catch-up, which also turns up the pressure on the team.

If the Leafs lose game #2 and fall behind 0-2 in the series and then need to win 4 of the next 5 to advance, and lot of fingers and eyes will be focused on the Leafs coach.

I think that many people identified Keefe and Campbell as the biggest question going into the playoffs. Toronto is the better team on paper. Keefe needs to have one hell of a performance from his players tonight.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So the more games one wins, the better ones chances for a series win. Crazy.

I am shocked. shocked i tell you.

I have to say, reading this thread reminds me why i left. for years people were whinging about how the star players weren't being played enough. now they re being leaned on and now the coach is getting crapped on for leaning on his star players too much.

People are going on how the Leafs can't be physical/handle tough teams (still) - to me - the Leafs were able to handle their own against Montreal's physicality. They threw hits. the Leafs threw hits back. (Montreal was doing a lot of trips. elbows and knees). which the Leafs were able to ignore. what threw them was Tavares being knocked out (considering how scary it looked on television. i am assuming it was scarier seeing it live. and if anyone says anything. I remember that one hockey player who had that heart condition and passed out on the the ice and needed a deliberator. players were crying on the bench, it completely shook up the team (I wanna say it was Dallas?)). The Leafs were shook up but they seemed to get back into the grove as the game went on.

Thornton made 2 mistakes that led to goals, and people are screaming that he's crap and should go away. was he doing things like that all season? or were they simply bad decisions that night?

They lost game one by a very close score. They weren't outplayed they weren't out matched, they didn't look like they weren't prepared to play. They were just on the wrong end of the scoreboard. They weren't going to go 16-0, they aren't going to look perfection every game either. no team does. Even the dominant ones have off nights on their way to the cup final.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Wondering what coaching critique you all have for Keefe who's still looking for his first playoff round win...

Some noticeable ones...

1) Over-playing his top players
2) Blending lines 2-4 for 90% of the game
3) Overusing veterans/rookies in special teams
4) Being extremely unprepared for a key player going down

What do you think?

Ultimately, I believe that coaches and GM's make their bed and must thus sleep in it. If they succeed, nobody should have much to say. If they fail, there is always going to be second guessing.

It's very unfortunate that Tavares is hurt. I had no problem with Nash playing the first game, I assumed he'd be a 4th line centre but, it is what it is.

As it were I'm happy to see Galchenyuk and Engvall in after Johnnys injury. I would have liked to see Galchenyuk in the first game as well, but, I see the team from a 1000 miles above sea level, I'm not there day in and day out.

If Leafs play hard, take it to the Habs, work through the battles they can fairly easily beat the Habs. Roll over and squander this opportunity and they can be sure there will be key changes this offseason.

 

[frizzer1]

People are going to hate it, but Hyman needs to get off the top line. He can be a driving factor on another line, Matthews and Marner don't need him, he is a luxury.

What I could see happening.

Foligno - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Nash - Engvall (talk about low event)
Thornton - Spezza - Simmonds

What I want to happen.

Gally - Matthews - Marner
Foligno - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Engvall - Hyman
Spezza - Brooks - Simmonds

More speed with this line-up and more skill

I think you are exactly right.
Your second lineup gives them the balance they need.
When they had Hyman on the third line they were a force.
I don’t understand why they won’t go back to that.
Unless Matthews/Marner want hyman and keefe gives in to them?
Is that possible?

 

[Gallagbi]

I think you are exactly right.
Your second lineup gives them the balance they need.
When they had Hyman on the third line they were a force.
I don’t understand why they won’t go back to that.
Unless Matthews/Marner want hyman and keefe gives in to them?
Is that possible?

I expect everyone wants to play with Hyman.

Personally I'd have Hyman and Willy tied together with the Tavares injury. You can roll them up/down our C's if needed. Marner can run with Galchenyuk so he always has a shooter

 

[Antropovsky]

Starting to sour on Dubas a bit. I've always thought him to be a bright and great GM but wondering if I'm just attracted to the prodigy and boy genius reputation the media gave him...with the young well put together look.

The good thing about the roster is that it doesn't have any glaring bad contracts...although Matthews, Marner and Nylanders at the times were just not as good as others of the same calibre ( matthews is debatable - as franchise players pick their contracts but I digress).

He has made some questionable choices. First year he removed all tenacity from the team and replaced it with skill. He removed a veteran coach and replaced I with an unproven rookie coach. He didn't shore up his backup goaltending costing the team precious points in the standings, he didn't sign Bogosian for free last season and instead went with Marincin, he passed on Verhaeghe (whom Dave Morrison recommended signing) because he wanted 1 million instead of 700000.

All in all his best moves have been the drafting (Robertson, Sandin, Amirov) but even then they have yet to prove anything.

The team actually has regressed in their post season performances since he took over as a gm.

Look at the guy in Florida... in one season he revamped the entire team and picked up young potential 1st/2nd liner young players in Verhaeghe and Bennett.

I think Dubas has potential for sure but I do feel like he's learning through the school of hard knocks because he wanted to be IT when he wasn't ready and could've waited another two seasons or at least hired an experienced assistant gm to help him out.

 

[Nylander88]

Appreciate the gusto but this doesn’t factor in special teams

Pretty hard to write in rough minutes for lines when factoring each player's special teams contributions lol just a rough aim for each line. Nylander didn't get enough ice. Marner got way too much ice. Special teams or not. 27 and change is too much for Mitch

 

[Stonehands1990]

Pretty hard to write in rough minutes for lines when factoring each player's special teams contributions lol just a rough aim for each line. Nylander didn't get enough ice. Marner got way too much ice. Special teams or not. 27 and change is too much for Mitch

I definitely like your structure better than Keefe’s concept of playing the top line like D men

 

[Antropovsky]

Just look at how Colorado finishes the season with 5 wins in a row, a Presidents Trophy and pumps St. Louis for 15-5 goals for vs against and a 3-0 lead. They are just frothing at the mouth and destroying whomever they play and we talk about coming out of the gate slowly because the troops aren't sufficiently motivated. Some teams are just killers.

MacKinnon has been hungry for a few years, Landeskog is a warrior....

One line can carry a good roster (no Edmonton is not a good roster).

Leafs first line either lacks the heart, the proper coaching, or mitch rides coat tails... or a combination of each - this year and last year they have not looked like a 22 million dollar pair.

 

[The Podium]

Do they know what they’re doing again?

 

[AllDay28]

Leafs gonna 4-1

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Starting to sour on Dubas a bit. I've always thought him to be a bright and great GM but wondering if I'm just attracted to the prodigy and boy genius reputation the media gave him...with the young well put together look.

The good thing about the roster is that it doesn't have any glaring bad contracts...although Matthews, Marner and Nylanders at the times were just not as good as others of the same calibre ( matthews is debatable - as franchise players pick their contracts but I digress).

He has made some questionable choices. First year he removed all tenacity from the team and replaced it with skill. He removed a veteran coach and replaced I with an unproven rookie coach. He didn't shore up his backup goaltending costing the team precious points in the standings, he didn't sign Bogosian for free last season and instead went with Marincin, he passed on Verhaeghe (whom Dave Morrison recommended signing) because he wanted 1 million instead of 700000.

All in all his best moves have been the drafting (Robertson, Sandin, Amirov) but even then they have yet to prove anything.

The team actually has regressed in their post season performances since he took over as a gm.

Look at the guy in Florida... in one season he revamped the entire team and picked up young potential 1st/2nd liner young players in Verhaeghe and Bennett.

I think Dubas has potential for sure but I do feel like he's learning through the school of hard knocks because he wanted to be IT when he wasn't ready and could've waited another two seasons or at least hired an experienced assistant gm to help him out.

Dubas didn't trade Verhaeghe. Lou was hired in July of 2015. The Verhaeghe trade happened in September of 2015. Plus you're using a player who broke out 6 yrs after being traded to criticize a GM's moves.

 

[stickty111]

Keefe made the right adjustments and team dominated. Good coaching in this game and it needs to keep up.

 

[IPS]

The Leafs haven't won a playoff round yet in 15 years with this supposed "center depth" you're speaking of, Crosby and Malkin have won multiple Cups, and the Leafs just lost to Montreal tonight...

McCann is just better than Spezza straight up...

I'd love to see you challenge any of these points on the main boards.

I'll do it for you if you'd like?

Did Foligno do good enough for you??????

 

[Menzinger]

Dubas didn't trade Verhaeghe. Lou was hired in July of 2015. The Verhaeghe trade happened in September of 2015.

Yeah, he got moved in like a 5 prospect deal to the Isles for Michael Grabner by Lou

 

[IPS]

Keefe made the right adjustments and team dominated. Good coaching in this game and it needs to keep up.

He didn't hot-take scratch Sandin. He gave him another shot and it paid off big.

Fantastic lineup decisions all around from Keefe.

 

[wingman75]

Good bounce back by Keefe. Strange circumstances in game one. Didn't over react like most of us... And you cannot question those lines. Well played.