Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

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The Leafs do not dump and chase and haven't for a while in case you haven't noticed.

Keefe pretty well outlawed it since coming aboard.

The players try to prance across the blue-line with the puck and find short outlet passes.


Exactly.

Dump and chase forechecking is what wins in the playoffs - - but it doesn't look good on the analytics.

Skating around the perimeter and moving the puck backwards is great for "puck-possession" analytics - - but it'll NEVER win in the playoffs.

Amazing that so many here are scratching their heads wondering how the Leafs managed to lose yet another first round playoff series.
 
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Just a thought here but does anyone think Shanny had a talk with Dubas last off season and told him he needs to bring in grit and veteran leadership. Then at the deadline he kind of double down on it with Foligno instead of someone else?

I think Dubas is learning it’s not all about skill like he thought. This off season will be his most important and possibly last as Leafs GM.
 
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Just a thought here but does anyone think Shanny had a talk with Dubas last off season and told him he needs to bring in grit and veteran leadership. Then at the deadline he kind of double down on it with Foligno instead of someone else?

I think Dubas is learning it’s not all about skill like he thought. This off season will be his most important and possibly last as Leafs GM.


Problem is, those gritty players do not fit with the Leafs system.

Dubas and Keefe both want to focus on "puck possession" analytics - - skating around the perimeter and moving the puck backward like it's a soccer game.

That kind of finesse game doesn't work for grinders. And it most certainly doesn't work in the playoffs.
 
Exactly.

Dump and chase forechecking is what wins in the playoffs - - but it doesn't look good on the analytics.

Skating around the perimeter and moving the puck backwards is great for "puck-possession" analytics - - but it'll NEVER win in the playoffs.

Amazing that so many here are scratching their heads wondering how the Leafs managed to lose yet another first round playoff series.
If you have skilled players..wouldn't you utilize puck control...thatsbwhat the oilers did in the 80s..yes 35 years ago.
 
Problem is, those gritty players do not fit with the Leafs system.

Dubas and Keefe both want to focus on "puck possession" analytics - - skating around the perimeter and moving the puck backward like it's a soccer game.

That kind of finesse game doesn't work for grinders. And it most certainly doesn't work in the playoffs.
So it doesn't work but they were ahead 3 games to 1 doing it ?
 
Just a thought here but does anyone think Shanny had a talk with Dubas last off season and told him he needs to bring in grit and veteran leadership. Then at the deadline he kind of double down on it with Foligno instead of someone else?

I think Dubas is learning it’s not all about skill like he thought. This off season will be his most important and possibly last as Leafs GM.
Matthews has a better series they win and marner..skilled players suck. Goalie was avg at best...
 
If you have skilled players..wouldn't you utilize puck control...thatsbwhat the oilers did in the 80s..yes 35 years ago.

You can't be serious with such a ridiculous comment.

Please tell me you're not comparing Matthews and Marner with Gretzky and Messier? Or Paul Coffey with Reilly?
 
So it doesn't work but they were ahead 3 games to 1 doing it ?


That sounds like something a delusional apologist would say.

They were up 3-1 against the least talented team in the playoffs, that's also not a very physical team and has an interim coach.

Yet they still found a way to come from ahead and lose. Again.
 
If anything the Avs is the 80s Oilers


That's like trying to say Vince Carter is Michael Jordan.

No team is the 80s Oilers. None are even close.

That team was absolutely loaded with hall of fame talents at the peak of their careers, along with some of the toughest and dirtiest players ever to play the game.
 
It not about skills vs grits…. It is more to do with players wanting it more and playing their roles.
AM and Marner roles were to create and score, they didn’t. One goal in 7 games, that’s pathetic. Muzzin got more goals than those two, heck even Sandin scored as many as them.
Price didn’t steal the series nor did the Leafs depth didn’t show up or Leafs defence sucks…..Leafs best players didn’t show up.
 
That's like trying to say Vince Carter is Michael Jordan.

No team is the 80s Oilers. None are even close.

That team was absolutely loaded with hall of fame talents at the peak of their careers, along with some of the toughest and dirtiest players ever to play the game.
I meant in terms of the style.
 
Just a thought here but does anyone think Shanny had a talk with Dubas last off season and told him he needs to bring in grit and veteran leadership. Then at the deadline he kind of double down on it with Foligno instead of someone else?

I think Dubas is learning it’s not all about skill like he thought. This off season will be his most important and possibly last as Leafs GM.
So MLSE decided to get rid of a veteran GM with cup rings........to hire the guy that needed to learn on the job..... after drafting 1st overall with a generational talent.
You can't make this shit up. Maybe he'll have it all sorted by the time AM is gone!
 
Dubas has become the poster child for 'Get Woke, Go Broke'

He is more concerned with diversity in management, geriatrics on the ice, and encouraging pacifistic play because skill conquers all

If he remains as GM, the best we can hope for is the first non-binary assistant coach in NHL history, Zdeno Chara QB’ing our PP, and a team that no one fears because retaliation is discouraged since our PP will destroy you
 
You can't be serious with such a ridiculous comment.

Please tell me you're not comparing Matthews and Marner with Gretzky and Messier? Or Paul Coffey with Reilly?
The talent was a good amount better on Toronto then Montreal. I meant when a team has better players you carry the puck and get away from the chase the puck and hope it works. Matthews...nylander..reilly..marner are a good amount better then Montreal top players thats why reg season records were quite different
 
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That sounds like something a delusional apologist would say.

They were up 3-1 against the least talented team in the playoffs, that's also not a very physical team and has an interim coach.

Yet they still found a way to come from ahead and lose. Again.
Against an interim coac h did u just confirm to me that who coaches is not as important as having a coach ?? They lost 2 games in ot...freakish plays. When did u last see a 2 on 0 in any game? So they lost again...well you had.no Fred anderson....no babcock...maybe blaming anybody is nonsense. Unless you feel they should keep changing things around. Campbell was never as good as a 11 n 0 goalie..nobody is..reality hit in playoffs. Not winning a series in many years an issue.....have no idea what to do...when you change the recipe and its same old...what now
 
Fwiw fellow hockey fans, the game is much tougher now to excel. There are no inept skaters in league..speed n size combats taoent..the 80 oilers wouldn't dominate today BECAUSE the opposition is much better. Wayne G said its tons harder to score in today's game
 
The talent was a good amount better on tirinti then Montreal. I meant when a team has better players you carry the puck and get away from the chase the puck and hope it works. Matthews...nylander..reilly..marner are a good amount better then Montreal top players thats why reg season records were quite different


Freewheeling through the neutral zone absolutely DOES NOT work in the playoffs. You saw what happened when Montreal got the lead tonight - - they just clogged the middle and Toronto had nowhere to go with the puck.

It's always the same blueprint for winning in the playoffs. Dump the puck in...hammer the defenceman...create a turnover...capitalize.

That's exactly how Montreal won the series with their hits on Sandin.

Playoff hockey is infinitely different than regular season hockey. Many people on this forum can't comprehend that fact. Don't feel badly though - - the Leafs coach and GM can't comprehend it either.
 
We agree to disagree. Now we are blaming coach n gm..didn't they have lamariello and babcock...keep changing..soon matthews will be retired
 
Lets just blame Freddy like every other year .... time to look at the common denominators ( Mathews - Marner ) .... They got paid and have accomplished NOTHING during the real season when the men come out .
 
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The Isles are in the second round. Lou is an excellent GM and no amount of clueless bs here changes the fact everywhere he goes they WIN. Babcock is literally laughing his ass off this morning, as we rehabilitate his image with each pathetic effort.

Two years in a row Keefe was completely out coached and nobody can dispute it. Dubas I’ve really warmed too, but this Foligno fiasco is a disgrace if true he bought damaged goods. He overpaid guys who accomplished nothing and he’s paying the price. Joe Thornton was a brutal add, all he’s done is lose in the playoffs and he has zero left to offer. Dubas also did some good things, Bogo and Brodie, fanatastic adds. But results matter.

I fire Keefe-he just doesn’t have the mental acumen to think on the fly, nor can he motivate apparently- get a hard coach and give Dubas one last chance. He needs to make BIG moves, thinking we just need more experience is a fools game.

Montreal is without question the worst team we’ve every lost too in this series of disappointments. What an embarrassing state for this franchise.
 
Can people please STOP comparing Keefe to Babcock and Dubas' to Lou Lamoriello! It's comparing two losers to Hall of Famers and it makes us look stupid.

Instead we should be comparing Dubas' + Keefe to just Lou. Twice Lou said "F it I'll do it myself" and coached + GM'd his team further than those Losers can manage together with a much bigger budget and staff.
The whole point of that tactic is it changes the narrative, stay on point people......
 

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