GDT: GM#66 LA Kings vs Chicago Blackhawks @1:00pm

[CowMix]

Of course the Hawks are getting killed by the Ducks 4-0.

Bye playoff spot, it was nice while it lasted.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

We had Charron for 5 games in 15--we lost every single one with penalties galore and more than one of those games was Sutter of all people losing it on the refs. We've only seen him 4 times since. Can see why.

so you're saying the NHL openly acknowledges that they have biased refs but choose to do nothing about it?

man this league is becoming more more like FIFA

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Bye playoff spot, it was nice while it lasted.

we're still in the playoffs by night's end

Avs lost in OT

but most likely be out of the playoffs by gameday, a win against the caps would put us back in though

 

[BigKing]

Nothing to play for but there is Toews fighting Kesler to start the 2nd period.

That is a leader. #8 needs to take notes.

 

[Winger23]

Nothing to play for but there is Toews fighting Kesler to start the 2nd period.

That is a leader. #8 needs to take notes.

And if toews gets hurt it only helps them tank for a better draft pick. Doughty fighting won't make him a leader, it's his antics that prevents it.

 

[BigKing]

Guess Toews has only fought during losing seasons since he strategizes about better lottery picks whenever he drops the gloves.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The notion that fighting is a measure of leadership is outdated and almost as silly as the idea that if Doughty would have simply fought Perron a week ago, we wouldn't be questioning his antics right now.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Does anyone know why this was even a 1:00 game? There was no NBA later that night.

Family friendly time. Afternoon games are aimed at bringing more kids.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Two more saturdays in a row, too. Blecch

 

[King'sPawn]

And if toews gets hurt it only helps them tank for a better draft pick. Doughty fighting won't make him a leader, it's his antics that prevents it.

I agree. I don't require Doughty to fight, but he either needs to change his attitude or back it up.

 

[BigKing]

It's absolutely not outdated on the ice or in the locker room, guaranteed.

There is still dirt to be thrown on the grave of fighting in hockey before it is dead, just like analytics aren't the be all end all of determining a player's usefulness.

 

[Winger23]

It's absolutely not outdated on the ice or in the locker room, guaranteed.

There is still dirt to be thrown on the grave of fighting in hockey before it is dead, just like analytics aren't the be all end all of determining a player's usefulness.

Guess kempe should be captain since he's fought more than Kopi and doughty.

Determining leadership based on dropping the gloves is ridiculous.

BTW um not questioning if doughty should be a leader, just the fighting aspect I think is crap.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's absolutely not outdated on the ice or in the locker room, guaranteed.

There is still dirt to be thrown on the grave of fighting in hockey before it is dead, just like analytics aren't the be all end all of determining a player's usefulness.

Never did I say fighting in hockey is dead. I'm a huge believer in intangibles (even more so in recent years with the Kings Cups on will alone) and on the players policing themselves. But using it as a measure of leadership while leaving off all the tangibles is just not something I can get behind.

I really don't think you and I are that far off each other on this one, but part of the reason the Hawks have been bad is because Toews has been bad. Does it make him a good leader that he's scrapped even though he's been borderline awful? I'd rather have the player who has been a difference maker all year NOT fighting.

Toews is putting up numbers this year that got Kopitar absolutely eviscerated last year.

 

[BigKing]

Kempe argument is pretty stupid but, since you went there, let's remember how that sparked the team and how the players said as much.

In no way does that mean Kempe should be captain; however, it pokes all kinds of holes in the idea that sticking up for oneself is not a component of leadership.

As for Toews, his poor season is irrelevant to the larger point. You can't praise Iginla for his leadership last season for fighting in the Calgary game but then continue to make excuses for Doughty and say it isn't important.

 

[deeshamrock]

The notion that fighting is a measure of leadership is outdated and almost as silly as the idea that if Doughty would have simply fought Perron a week ago, we wouldn't be questioning his antics right now.

Disagree. I don't think it's outdated at all and choosing the option depends on the situation at hand. I've seen it work. A player sees one of his teammates nailed with a cheap shot, and he doesn't hesitate, he goes after that player, it does lift the team and can make a difference. It does affect the bench, the attitude of the players. You see a guy do that for you or a teammate, that's a guy you go to war for and willingly follow.
If you are a player and someone take a run at you, and it's dirty, you should defend that, and it doesn't have to be a fight but you shouldn't just skate away with your tail between your legs.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In no way does that mean Kempe should be captain; however, it pokes all kinds of holes in the idea that sticking up for oneself is not a component of leadership.

As for Toews, his poor season is irrelevant to the larger point. You can't praise Iginla for his leadership last season for fighting in the Calgary game but then continue to make excuses for Doughty and say it isn't important.

Sticking up for oneself doesn't necessarily mean 'drop the gloves,' though, and it's your inability to separate fighting from a willingness to play tough that I disagree with.

Of course I can. A big part of Iginla's game was being a power forward and yes, fighting. Fighting never has been--nor should it--be a part of Drew's game. I'm totally on board with him sticking up for himself if the situation calls for it and I'm sure if he drops the gloves ever again it will be justified just as it was against Thornton. But fighting wasn't a part of Lidstrom's game. nor Sergei Zubov's. Etc. And I especially don't endorse it over the stupid shit that started this whole debate, David Perron giving him a little extra shove.

You want to know the one and only time I felt like Drew actually went out of his way to instigate something and then let someone else fight his battle for him? When he went after Steve Downie. Now, he certainly shouldn't fight Downie, but he went out of his way to provoke him and let Mitchell (IIRC) intervene. That pissed me off because that was truly hiding. As for the rest, most of the time, he's targeted. Happened with the Tkachuk scenario too. It's not bad leadership or whatever to not fight every dude who takes a run at you because you're a top-3 d-man in the league. If you need your 30-min-a-night stud d-man to get his face punched in (let's make no mistake, drew isn't WINNING any fights, I think we can agree on that) by some random player to spark the team, maybe your team needs to have someone else step up there.

Are you really telling me you'd be good with Drew's leadership after last night's game if he had simply dropped the gloves with David Perron a week ago? Somehow, I doubt it.

Disagree. I don't think it's outdated at all and choosing the option depends on the situation at hand. I've seen it work. A player sees one of his teammates nailed with a cheap shot, and he doesn't hesitate, he goes after that player, it does lift the team and can make a difference. It does affect the bench, the attitude of the players. You see a guy do that for you or a teammate, that's a guy you go to war for and willingly follow.
If you are a player and someone take a run at you, and it's dirty, you should defend that, and it doesn't have to be a fight but you shouldn't just skate away with your tail between your legs.

I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying fighting can't be a measure of that; I'm saying that NOT fighting doesn't make one a bad leader. There are other ways of handling many NHL situations that don't require the best player on the ice dropping the gloves with the nearest willing combatant. Because if the first was the case, maybe Derek Forbort wouldn't be the most maligned player on this forum. After all, he dropped the gloves for Gaborik and Doughty, right? Where's his leadership trophy from BigKing?

"all team leaders/captains fight" is absolutely an outdated notion. This isn't the 1960s. Sticking up for one another is absolutely still in the game, you'll never see me disagree with that.

 

[kingsfan28]

Of course the Hawks are getting killed by the Ducks 4-0.

And unlike the Kings, they continued to build on their lead. Didn't try to cruise and take dumb penalties to blow the game.

 

[kingsfan28]

We had Charron for 5 games in 15--we lost every single one with penalties galore and more than one of those games was Sutter of all people losing it on the refs. We've only seen him 4 times since. Can see why.

Charron has a serious problem calling Kings games.

 

[member 88115]

Doughty is never going fight, lets get over it. He sucks at it and is not his job to it. He is NO Cooke, Torres or Avery that were cheap shot type that got under players that should fight for their actions. A huge hitter like Kronwall had only one fight in the NHL his whole career, but Detroit fans know the leader he was to the team.

Edit: Kronwall never had a fight

 

[Bandit]

I think Doughty has a tough decision to make coming up. That would certainly effect your play. His next contract will be huge, and he gets to choose where he plays.

Drew loves the Kings that's a given, but Drew also wants to win more Cups.

Are we really saying we should be feeling bad for Doughty because he has to make the tough decision on who gets the privilege of giving him an $80 million plus contract? If that is affecting his play, then f*** him.

Of course the Hawks are getting killed by the Ducks 4-0.

The hawks were getting killed by the Kings too, then Doughty happened.

 

[LAKings88]

Doughty was one small piece of the ineptitude that happened. They packed it up and called it a game after 2 periods.

 

[Sol]

Oh wow the Doughty bitching is still strong..

Anyways, on a mass scale there's two types of players that get respected and look like leaders..
Jamie Benn will fight with the best of them Even if he acts like a child he fights.

And there's the Quiet players who are very reserved on the ice and passive..


Those are the two types in all sports, if you want respect you gotta either keep your head down and go through the tough times. Or if you're gonna be over emotional you better back it up when you're being aggressive.

Its very universal.

 

[Winger23]

Kempe argument is pretty stupid but, since you went there, let's remember how that sparked the team and how the players said as much.

In no way does that mean Kempe should be captain; however, it pokes all kinds of holes in the idea that sticking up for oneself is not a component of leadership.

As for Toews, his poor season is irrelevant to the larger point. You can't praise Iginla for his leadership last season for fighting in the Calgary game but then continue to make excuses for Doughty and say it isn't important.

I agree the kempe example was stupid, just as leadership requires fighting is. Toews has only been in a handful of fights in his entire career. I'm really sure his leadership qualities in the locker room have skyrocketed with his .010 fights per game average.

Is kopi a poor captain?

 

[The Tikkanen]

You guys are all assuming that Doughty knows how to fight and if he did fight he would win. Getting your face mashed in by somebody who has dropped the gloves and knows how to stand, how to grab the jersey properly and throw punches isn't gonna spark the team or make Doughty more of a leader. He leads by being an elite NHL defensemen who has won at every level. Fighting is beneath him and in todays NHL is reserved for players who are severely lacking in talent like Clifford. I'd have more respect for Doughty as the winner and player he is rather than the guy who got Superman punched by Bieksa and was left on the ice in a crimson mask of blood.

 

[bob77]

You guys are all assuming that Doughty knows how to fight and if he did fight he would win. Getting your face mashed in by somebody who has dropped the gloves and knows how to stand, how to grab the jersey properly and throw punches isn't gonna spark the team or make Doughty more of a leader. He leads by being an elite NHL defensemen who has won at every level. Fighting is beneath him and in todays NHL is reserved for players who are severely lacking in talent like Clifford. I'd have more respect for Doughty as the winner and player he is rather than the guy who got Superman punched by Bieksa and was left on the ice in a crimson mask of blood.

You can do something though. Grab on, wrestling a bit