kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
- 18,721
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Okay, so you think this team needs two top-six forwards and a top-four defenseman before they’re a contender?
GDT: Gm#39 LA Kings vs Vancouver Canucks @7:00
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Okay, so you think this team needs two top-six forwards and a top-four defenseman before they’re a contender?
deaderhead28
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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No I said the Kings need to add either a top 6 fwd or third line centermen on top of Carters return and or a top 4 defenseman to be a serious contender.So again,Blake at a minimum needs to go out and get at lease one top 4 defenseman or top 6 fwd or third line center and then patch the rest.These holes have been there for several years, it's not new by me pointing it out.Ladue isn't the answer either.
My Summer 2016 post on Kempe. It still pretty much holds true:
He can flat out fly, and is a pretty tough kid!! Gets hit alot and bounces back up. He does remind me of Trevor Lewis in this respect. His shot is good but his scoring isnt always there. He's better at wing than center. He's much faster than a King or Mersch would be. He'd bring much needed speed to 3rd or 4th line, and could be slotted higher if needed. Another year in the AHL wouldn't hurt him, but at the same time, he could help the Kings now. Also, he's system ready, which some of these guys you trade for aren't.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
OK in ur perfect world who do u suggest would turn us into contenders What does ur perfect lineup look like
deaderhead28
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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I think this was answered already by Raccon and myself on a stop gap idea at a lower cost.Theres no perfect line up since there's a cap and chemistry and character things to think about.I also don't have the privilege to know what other GM's opinions are on our players or who might be available from them to fill holes.I don't manage the team or its cap or do I own the team or coach it.I only point out the same holes that were there on this roster for several seasons now as others have pointed out.
Only Blake knows what is available trade wise and the cost thru his private discussions.The minimum I could see as Raccon agreed would be bringing J-Dub back on the line with Kopi and bring in the struggling Faulk from Carolina if their not in a playoff spot if the scouts think Willy could keep up with the new pace.Thats a very minimum.Again please don't place blame on me or attack cause I point out the obvious.If I knew what the market looked like I could give you a in-depth ideas of roster moves.But not knowing who is available or posting a bunch of names doesn't erase or change the holes and needs of Kings needs regardless.
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You posting your opinion over and over again doesn't make it right either. Don't you feel like saying the same pessimistic stuff in every single GDT is a bit much? You don't have to counter every optimistic person with negativity. Enjoy the season and see what happens.
deaderhead28
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 5,428
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It's negative to point out the holes and needs on the roster?Wow how funny.I enjoy every season but still share my thoughts as everyone does on a community sports message board.I don't agree with most of your posts,but I don't try to tell you what you should post.
I respond to post as everyone does if it's to like them or to disagree with a post or agree with a post.Thank you for your input and I'll try better to do a more in depth on my disagreements so there's no confusion.What you call negative I call a positive dialog of discussion on the subject.You attack a member cause you don't agree I try to explain my disagreement with a post or opinion.
I've seen the past few season what has happened and pointed out the last few years the same holes or issues with the roster.I welcome you to a respectful dialog regardless.Ive been attack as others have the last few seasons and they don't post here due to the gang attacks for disagreeing with some members on here.
I don't take this stuff personally and it only fuels my point when people attack or disrespect me or others trying to have a honest conversation and civil disagreement or agreement over the years.I call it how I see it,and I'm honset and not a parrot or a follower.If I like a post anyone makes I'll like it no matter if you don't show the same respect back.Many know this I disagree with as Raccon has had lots of likes from me even tho we disagree at times.
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KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
The top 6 outside of Carter is Pearson, or probably nothing. Or, if they get a 3rd center, it could be Kempe. With Brown and Gaborik answering some questions so far, at least for this season, the top 6 hole isn't going to be answered from outside the organization. Pearson has to wake up. The first priority is a defenseman, which is of course the toughest player to get. Other than Mike Green, doesn't look like there will be too many rentals out there. Not looking at too many rentals down the middle either.
I'm of the opinion that who knows how long Brown and Gaborik will keep this up, and Kopitar will still take up a lot of salary, let alone cap space, in the next couple years, so be in as much as you can be this year. The future doesn't matter. If they show they're competitive in a given year, do as much as you can for that year, and if it screws you 5 years from now, deal with it.
KingTrouty
Allons!
Can you see Kempe developing into a Power Forward -- being able to fill into his frame and use the hell out of his size/strength, or is he better suited as a finesse forward with incredible size and bite?
kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
- 18,721
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No one is attacking you.
With that said, unless the Kings are willing to move an important prospect, I think a guy like Williams is the most the Kings will be able to get. If Blake trades Clague, Villardi, or a first round pick, it would be a huge mistake.
I don’t think Faulk is a realistic trade target because Carolina would want more than the Kings could give up. The Kings don’t really have any short-term cap dump players that could be shipped to a non-contender, so adding much more cap won’t work.
I agree that Williams would be a benefit to this team, though. He would look great with Kopitar and Brown.
I disagree that we have a hole at third line center. Nick Shore has done a great job and he’s only getting better.
Winger23
Registered User
- May 3, 2007
- 5,759
- 623
Sorry, but stopped reading when you said this team lacked leadership and experience.
Can’t trade a top prospect or draft pick.
LaDue may be a piece to move but I think LA will look to him next season.
Carter will be the big add this year.
LaDue may be a piece to move but I think LA will look to him next season.
Carter will be the big add this year.
But you don't discuss with people. You tell them they are wrong. I'm not going to try to argue with you about what the team needs or doesn't need. It's pointless, we are just fans, and things aren't as black and white as you make them out to be. You posting the same opinion in every thread does not make it fact.
Is the team perfect? No. Could they contend for the cup? Maybe. You don't think so fine, we ALL get it.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,769
I don't understand why someone's opinion is so bothersome to some of you. DH28 joined an ongoing discussion and debate. You are free to do so as well.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,769
Yeah, someone did. The response to his post was about why he is always negative. There was nothing of substance in the post.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,769
I agree. With the way the team has been managed over the last couple of years there is little choice but to go for it this season. However, I don't think the Kings have enough assets to get a defenseman which will make enough of an impact to put them over the top. A lot can happen with injuries, etc. with different teams. Tampa, and two or three teams from the Central look better than anything the Pacific Division has to offer.
It would help quite a bit if Pearson came back to life.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
It's not about the opinion, it's about the situation and how it's presented. Walk it back to the beginning and you'll see it started with @markisonfire literally writing "I’m really excited for the Kings once Carter comes back." Then, DH28 followed up with "This team doesn't have depth or leadership or experience no matter how many times you post it." Like, what's the purpose of that? "No matter how many times you post it?" That's not "joining and ongoing discussion and debate." There was no debate. The poster wanted to share positivity after a win and was told that he shouldn't. That's the relentlessly negative stuff that needs to go. That's wallowing in self-created misery and trying to blackhole someone with you, and that's what leads to these dumb chains of unproductive discourse.
You can have a different opinion and address it with tact. You don't need to bash someone over the head with "you shouldn't think that way" in a post-win GDT with good effort. It doesn't all need to be sunshine and rainbows and it's fine to be realistic or even pessimistic, but I'm going to start suggesting posters start ignoring other posters if they can't engage productively.
deeshamrock
Registered User
That's exactly right. The asking price for Faulk is a young top 6 center. It's a shame, they are good team, great young d (and more coming) but lack a top center, and as much as Skinner is trying to make up for that, it doesn't work. But because of the strength of their young d core and those on the farm, (Francis has quietly done a good job, just like he did as a player) they can afford to move Faulk, and get that top center. The kings don't have that depth
Same with Patches in Montreal, he tries to provide but he's a winger. And the Habs don't have a legit #1 center. The Habs are trying to move Patches to get a top d. And for his sake, I'd like to see him on a top line wit h a legit #1 center. He deserves that. And over the last week or so the penguins have been the team that is hot after him. I imagine he'd feel right at home with Crosby.
As has been pointed out, Carter will be the Kings top 6 add, they were shopping for a top 6 forward most of last year and early this year but over the last month, that changed. From what I've heard/read, they are lightly seeking out a top 4 D, but the asking price has been 'steep'. Depending on who that is, generally a team moving out a D, is shopping for scoring/forward. And for a legit top 4 d, not a rental, a good youngish d with good paper, the asking price would be a top 6 forward.
Toffoli isn't going anywhere so that is why (I think) the Kings are not frontrunners for a top 4 d.
I love Williams but he's showing his age, moving a young piece out to get him would be a step backwards. The Canes brought him in to provide leadership and they need that, as a young team. His role their is fine for where he is in his career.
It's not going to be easy replacing 3 yrs of DL's mishaps. Blake and Luc , I think , are trying to right the ship. But that takes time. They started well and has a strong 2017 draft which hopefully they can continue . That's the right way to do it but it's not a quick process. They won't be trading Clague or Vilardi or LaDue or any of the top young prospects, that's not how you build a contender. And it's that difference in philosophy that cost DL his job.
The fans have to be patient, it's not something you turn around in a year or two. I've seen every King's game (except 1 in Oct) and I think Kempe and Iafallo have done fine, it's a hard adjustment to NHL life, playing against savvy veterans and esp. the grueling regular season. ITs' a lot to learn and absorb Most young players don't make that comfort level until their 3rd year. I like Vilardi and think he'll be a fine add in 2 years or so. So will Anderson-Dolan, who I think was a great pickup. That's 2 more good young forwards to add to pearson, TT, KEmpe and Iafallo that's a good start. That's a six pack of youth , speed and skill.
They don't have many pieces to trade for top players. And I think they know that Kings are good, but not contenders. The skill set of the competition in the League is tough. They're doing it the right way.
- Mar 9, 2002
- 7,197
- 4,932
I will agree with you on the depth. I believe her forward depth is just fine once Carter comes back. However I do not like or depth on defense. One solid top for defenseman that can eat major minutes such as the Norstrom of old would be great
I however believe this team has the leadership it takes. You don't need a bunch of older players to provide leadership. Look at the Stanley Cup rings on the majority of our players fingers and you will see those players know what it takes to win a cup. You can put all the McDavid's in the world in a lineup in the playoffs but until they win their first cup they have not experienced the complete emotional and physical call the playoffs take.
This team boasts not only Captain Carter, but X Captain Brown, proven big game for former Carter, one of the most awarded defenseman in LA Kings history, and gritty blood and guts warriors like Lewis and Cliffy. These guys don't need someone telling them what to do to be effective. And even with those players resumes we still have who I believe is the team is number one motivator and Jonathan Quick and his drive and spark. I believe Quicks absence was the biggest effect in the locker room on the team last year. Both by him physically being in the net and providing big saves as well as the way he pumps of his teammates when they need it or give someone a kick in the ass when they need it
The majority of this team or proven winners twice over and with a couple subtle additions could easily make a run for three this year. I am not sure why some people are so down on this team.
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
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Idk. In my opinion, the current incarnation has yet to prove their mettle in terms of playoff leadership.
The cup runs were mostly led by Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Stoll. Yes, Brown and Kopitar wore letters, but they were still young, and sort of passengers in that regard, similar to Getzlaf and Perry in 2007.
Nothing wrong with that. Obviously, Brown and Kopitar played huge roles on the ice in 2012-2014. But in the locker room, by all accounts, it was all Williams, Mitchell, and co.
The cup runs were mostly led by Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Stoll. Yes, Brown and Kopitar wore letters, but they were still young, and sort of passengers in that regard, similar to Getzlaf and Perry in 2007.
Nothing wrong with that. Obviously, Brown and Kopitar played huge roles on the ice in 2012-2014. But in the locker room, by all accounts, it was all Williams, Mitchell, and co.
deeshamrock
Registered User
Well said. I couldn't agree more. And I think they still miss what they lost in Mitchell, who just had such a huge degree of what it takes, and was not afraid to flex his leadership, vocally active, speak up and out when it was required and was respected by every player in that room. That's a rare thing and it something players either have or they don't. You can't learn it. Every time I heard him interviewed, I was impressed by not only what he said , but how he said it. And you just can't replace that.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I'm not sure that guy exists in the league right now frankly. I totally agree with the last several posts, but I just don't see a Mitchell in the league right now, much less one available, much much less one that will fall right into the Kings' lap.
I don't think anyone would be against making such an addition--we know what heart-and-soul guys can do--but I literally can't even think of a remotely similar player around the league right now. Or at least one that can play in a #4 d-man capacity. That's why in the other threads I've tried to look at names like Faulk, Petrovic/Pysyk...no teams that would be out of the race want to let #4 types go.
Legionnaire
Help On The Way
Man. I am so grateful that the Kings finally won, not one, but TWO Cups - I don't even care about these types of arguments anymore. Carry on gentlemen. Carry on. We're experiencing the most successful time period in Kings history so enjoy your arguments that somehow it's not. 
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,479
- 18,925
I'm curious to know if you have any links to back this up. I'm sure we can kind find quotes about the great leadership of these players, but this sort of thing isn't quantifiable and you can always find fluff pieces and cliche quotes praising the leadership and intangibles of well-liked players.
Calling Kopitar/Brown "sort of passengers" is ludicrous IMO. In 2012 I believe Brown was the longest tenured member of the Kings, and Kopitar may have been the second longest tenured member of the team.
I love all the guys you mentioned (Williams, Mitchell, Stoll, Richards), but none of them are as overall important to the cup runs as Kopitar or Doughty, and 2012Brown. (The exception being Williams in 2014 who was obviously amazing).
Mitchell in particular is fantastic on and off the ice, I wish I could clone him, but he's not as important as Kopitar or Doughty.
Brown was already in his 4th year of his captaincy when they won the cup. Not to mention he was an alternate captain of the USA Olympic team in 2010, chosen over guys like Callahan, Backes, Drury, Pavelski, Stastny, all who have leadership pedigrees. Kopitar already wore an A for 4 years as well. I think ludicrous is an appropriate adjective, they weren't even close to passengers.
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