GDT: [GM 19] Vancouver Canucks vs. Vegas Golden Knights | Nov 21 | 7:30PM PST | SNET

[MS]

How’s Bear been playing? I haven’t watched much since he joined the team. Any hope he could be a long term OEL partner?

He's been excellent. Has looked like a solid 2nd pairing RHD. Has skated really well, moved the puck well. Few major mistakes.

OEL-Bear has been the team's best defensive pairing in basically every game they've played together. Stillman-Bear struggled in terms of possession but that was absolutely not Bear's fault.

 

[Hit the post]

If your numbers are right, Jesus. He came out of this smelling like Steve Moore.

It is what it is.

 

[wonton15]

Stillman.

 

[Hit the post]

Stillman.

Bet the over.

I am not a financial advisor.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

It is what it is.

Where have I heard that before?

 

[M2Beezy]

Getting the feeling this will be a curb stomping unless Demko can absolutely play the game of the year or if the Las Vegas Golden Knights have an off game

 

[Snatcher Demko]

SHHHH you are ruining the narrative!

I don't see it as a narrative, fans just don't want it to become one with this group. I don't think it will, but losing that 2nd deserves criticism, especially in the light that management was wrong in their own expectations for the team and coach.

 

[racerjoe]

I don't see it as a narrative, fans just don't want it to become one with this group. I don't think it will, but losing that 2nd deserves criticism, especially in the light that management was wrong in their own expectations for the team and coach.

Some posters were definitely trying to make it a narrative. I don't know if the OP was one of them, but it was a talking point in the summer, especially in comparing JR to JB.

As to the trade. I am not a Stillman fan, think he has benn terrible, but in a vacuum, that was a good move in value for losing cap. Other parts of the trade can be talked about and probably were bad, but just sheer value, good in comparison.

 

[supercanuck]

I wonder if the team should give Hughes-Bear pairing a try? If he can help stabilize a pairing with OEL, I wonder what he can do with Hughes. (This would be a move with eyes towards the future though as the team desperately needs the 2nd D-pairing to not be atrocious.)

 

[4Twenty]

Funny when JB tried retooling on the fly flipping 2nds and 3rds it was awful but when these guys do it it’s narrative.


It’s only good because you’re using another rushed/panic move by the Rangers to dump salary as the going rate.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Vegas is 2-2-2 in their last six (and that includes losses to the Blues and Sharks)...They got off to a tremendous start this season, but I think that they are going to level off a bit.

Canucks are going to have to bring their A game for this one.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I am assuming that Podz is back in.

 

[racerjoe]

Funny when JB tried retooling on the fly flipping 2nds and 3rds it was awful but when these guys do it it’s narrative.


It’s only good because you’re using another rushed/panic move by the Rangers to dump salary as the going rate.

@Snatcher Demko see... narrative.

 

[Nucker101]

This management group has traded away more draft pick/prospect capital than they've acquired so far, that part is definitely not a narrative.

 

[4Twenty]

@Snatcher Demko see... narrative.

If your evaluation is happening “in a vacuum” its also a narrative.


There’s really nothing false about the narrative either. This new regime painted their cap situation into a corner that required moving a future top 2 round pick for cap compliance.

A mediocre team with no prospect pool to speak of.


The deal for Bear was solid. This cap dump was not.

This management group has traded away more draft pick/prospect capital than they've acquired so far, that part is definitely not a narrative.

Some folks are so f***ing desperate for the new regime to be seen as different.

 

[MS]

Outside of #1 picks, draft pick surpluses are mostly irrelevant and are about the most overblown non-issue there is. It's absolutely crazy how fans think stockpiling nearly worthless mid-round picks is such a big key to success.

And I said the same thing repeatedly when Benning was here. The fact he traded picks was not a problem. The problem was the bad targets.

 

[4Twenty]

Outside of #1 picks, draft pick surpluses are mostly irrelevant and are about the most overblown non-issue there is. It's absolutely crazy how fans think stockpiling nearly worthless mid-round picks is such a big key to success.

There better not be gripes about moving 2nd rounders in your post history (there is).


2nd rounders getting lumped into “mid picks” is showing your agenda.


Mostly irrelevant is absolute nonsense.

 

[m9]

Some posters were definitely trying to make it a narrative. I don't know if the OP was one of them, but it was a talking point in the summer, especially in comparing JR to JB.

As to the trade. I am not a Stillman fan, think he has benn terrible, but in a vacuum, that was a good move in value for losing cap. Other parts of the trade can be talked about and probably were bad, but just sheer value, good in comparison.

Part of the good "sheer value" was based on Stillman being an effective enough player to to warrant his salary. At this point Stillman looks like a minimum salary guy and a negative asset, so I think that the value is no longer looking fair or good.

As for tonight, pretty interested to see how this team looks against a good team. If this team got back into the playoff mix, there's a decent chance they will need to take some points against Vegas along the way.

 

[MS]

There better not be gripes about moving 2nd rounders in your post history (there is).


2nd rounders getting lumped into “mid picks” is showing your agenda.


Mostly irrelevant is absolute nonsense.

I have zero problems trading 2nd rounders for established NHL players with control. None. Obviously trading 2nd round picks for failed prospects like Linden Vey who are immediately bad is a bad thing. And tossing them into an already-atrocious OEL or Sutter deal is a bad thing.

And yeah, it's mostly irrelevant. Hit rates in the mid-late rounds are extremely low and if you literally traded away every single one of those picks and spent your contract slots signing CHL/NCAA/Euro undrafted UFA instead you'd lose absolutely nothing.

Pick surpluses are a small benefit that comes from being a quality organization deep in assets. They're a symptom of success, not a driver of anything.

 

[Vector]

 

[racerjoe]

If your evaluation is happening “in a vacuum” its also a narrative.


There’s really nothing false about the narrative either. This new regime painted their cap situation into a corner that required moving a future top 2 round pick for cap compliance.

A mediocre team with no prospect pool to speak of.


The deal for Bear was solid. This cap dump was not.


Some folks are so f***ing desperate for the new regime to be seen as different.

If you look up you may see the point of the conversation at hand. I know you want to force your narrative, but whatever, keep reinforcing what my actual point was.

Part of the good "sheer value" was based on Stillman being an effective enough player to to warrant his salary. At this point Stillman looks like a minimum salary guy and a negative asset, so I think that the value is no longer looking fair or good.

As for tonight, pretty interested to see how this team looks against a good team. If this team got back into the playoff mix, there's a decent chance they will need to take some points against Vegas along the way.

I won't lie when the trade was made I thought Stillman was going to be waived, and was only kept as we had a few injuries. The fact he is being played is baffling. However cap savings it was a good move. If you want to debate if we should have done it, that is fair.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

This regime's body of work isn't big enough to judge it yet, but they've had opportunities and the fact that they haven't taken those like the JT trade is very concerning. With that being said, let's not compare JB's version of retooling on the fly to this version - it's disrespectful. Any version of retooling on the fly that starts with moving a 2nd round pick for Linden f***ing Vey lacks the vision/pro scouting to execute it.

 

[Grantham]

I am assuming that Podz is back in.

Honest question...is Rathbone worse defensively than Stillman? What does he do that Rathbone can't. Just flabbergasted at this stupid decision. Stillman+Myers paring costs us a minimum of 1 extra goal against a game. I know Myers won't be scratched no matter how terrible he plays because he's really tall and gets paid a lot.

I can see Burroughs leaving as UFA after this unjust treatment.

Objectively, what am I missing here?

Stillman should be the 3rd option to fill the last D spot. Common sense would dictate:- 1)Burroughs 2)Rathbone 3)Stillman (prefer our AHL D over him)

 

[Breakers]

LOL
that Eichel line is going to slaughter
Stillman-Myers

Big and fast Vegas is going to torch them off the rush.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Honest question...is Rathbone worse defensively than Stillman? What does he do that Rathbone can't. Just flabbergasted at this stupid decision. Stillman+Myers paring costs us a minimum of 1 extra goal against a game. I know Myers won't be scratched no matter how terrible he plays because he's really tall and gets paid a lot.

I can see Burroughs leaving as UFA after this unjust treatment.

Objectively, what am I missing here?

Stillman should be the 3rd option to fill the last D spot. Common sense would dictate:- 1)Burroughs 2)Rathbone 3)Stillman (prefer our AHL D over him)

As I said in my previous post..Stillman is more of a liability than Burroughs, and if i was the coach, I'd put in Burroughs in , and Stillman out....Although, I'm not losing my shit over a decision over which 3rd pairing D man in the lineup...Whats more important are how the core players perform.

As for Rathbone, he last played against the Habs...and he didnt look good on a couple of goals against if I recall...Although, in his defence, the entire team was a no show that night.