GDT: GM#11 LA Kings vs New York Rangers @12:30pm 10/28/18- Half Assed GDT Version!

[King'sPawn]

I am happy the Kings won. I would never *want* them to lose. And I commend people who can be positive even during the past few years. I was more positive up until this year.

I do think many of us have a genuine concern that management will keep sailing towards the iceberg despite numerous red flags. Maybe the iceberg is an optical illusion, and everything will work out fine. These are the concerns, though:
- The current head coach has been in the organization since 2010, either as a head, assistant, or interim coach.
- The core players who have shown a consistent ability to deliver on a high end and as a whole, improve, were drafted in 2003, 2005 and 2008 (Carter, Kopitar, Quick, Doughty)
- Many of the members of the development staff have been in the org in some capacity over several years. Their biggest change has been in strength and conditioning
- A lot of the scouting staff have been in place for a seemingly long time, starting with Futa and Yanetti (who I admittedly have a great deal of admiration for)

In summary, the infrastructure, from management, to coaches, to development, to scouting to players, has been here for a long time.

The Kings are tied for the 2nd worst team in the league. Two of their three wins have been against the worst team in the league and the team they are tied with for worst. The Ontario Reign is the 3rd worst team in the AHL. If you can't have a good NHL team, you better have a good future/AHL team to buoy your future, and right now the Kings have neither. Their combined record is 4-11-4.

There are some hopefuls: JAD and Vilardi look like great picks from 2017. 2018 is a boom or bust draft, as all the picks were somewhat high risk/high reward type. So we can't really evaluate that one yet. But from 2010 to 2016, the Kings have 4 players they've drafted currently playing on a regular basis: Pearson, Toffoli, Forbort, Kempe. They have 2 on the roster who have played in about half the games: Wagner and LaDue. They have one which was assigned back to the AHL: Amadio. That's an average of one player per draft who is seeing NHL time on the Kings, and none of which have shown they can be counted on to anchor their line/pairing. They are more benefiting from playing with the veterans versus helping the veterans elevate their game.

I know there were a lot of trades from Lombardi which affected these numbers, but that's kind of the point. The team is missing pieces, and there's a very large gap between the veterans who have taken over and the youth who you hope will take over.

It's looking more and more that Blake cannot or will not do something unless there is a catastrophe. Whether it's him, Luc, or AEG, there are people who seemingly think everything is okay by the lack of tangible changes. It's just been talk.

It should NOT take the return of one player who's been with the org for 15 years to inspire the team to play their best game and still barely eek a win over a rebuilding team. If it does, you cannot honestly believe this team is a contender.

So that's why I'm less optimistic.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Just for reference Ziggy, maybe you can use this in the future,

This here - GameTracker

Is an example of when the Kings DID NOT generate quality chances......surely you can see the difference in the two charts....right?

Oh hey what happened to the part about calling me an idiot? And there’s a handful of shots from the slot, between the circles, not the inflated number you claimed earlier.

In the first period there was the Pearson shot from a prime scoring area that Lundqvist didn’t have to flinch on that stuck out, and one goal mouth area scramble Lundqvist was sharp on. Then it was a lull game until the PP came to life.

How anyone finds that to be a wrong statement is just being argumentative for the sake of disagreement. I didn’t even say they played a poor game, but you read what you want to read.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I am happy the Kings won. I would never *want* them to lose. And I commend people who can be positive even during the past few years. I was more positive up until this year.

I do think many of us have a genuine concern that management will keep sailing towards the iceberg despite numerous red flags. Maybe the iceberg is an optical illusion, and everything will work out fine. These are the concerns, though:
- The current head coach has been in the organization since 2010, either as a head, assistant, or interim coach.
- The core players who have shown a consistent ability to deliver on a high end and as a whole, improve, were drafted in 2003, 2005 and 2008 (Carter, Kopitar, Quick, Doughty)
- Many of the members of the development staff have been in the org in some capacity over several years. Their biggest change has been in strength and conditioning
- A lot of the scouting staff have been in place for a seemingly long time, starting with Futa and Yanetti (who I admittedly have a great deal of admiration for)

In summary, the infrastructure, from management, to coaches, to development, to scouting to players, has been here for a long time.

The Kings are tied for the 2nd worst team in the league. Two of their three wins have been against the worst team in the league and the team they are tied with for worst. The Ontario Reign is the 3rd worst team in the AHL. If you can't have a good NHL team, you better have a good future/AHL team to buoy your future, and right now the Kings have neither. Their combined record is 4-11-4.

There are some hopefuls: JAD and Vilardi look like great picks from 2017. 2018 is a boom or bust draft, as all the picks were somewhat high risk/high reward type. So we can't really evaluate that one yet. But from 2010 to 2016, the Kings have 4 players they've drafted currently playing on a regular basis: Pearson, Toffoli, Forbort, Kempe. They have 2 on the roster who have played in about half the games: Wagner and LaDue. They have one which was assigned back to the AHL: Amadio. That's an average of one player per draft who is seeing NHL time on the Kings, and none of which have shown they can be counted on to anchor their line/pairing. They are more benefiting from playing with the veterans versus helping the veterans elevate their game.

I know there were a lot of trades from Lombardi which affected these numbers, but that's kind of the point. The team is missing pieces, and there's a very large gap between the veterans who have taken over and the youth who you hope will take over.

It's looking more and more that Blake cannot or will not do something unless there is a catastrophe. Whether it's him, Luc, or AEG, there are people who seemingly think everything is okay by the lack of tangible changes. It's just been talk.

It should NOT take the return of one player who's been with the org for 15 years to inspire the team to play their best game and still barely eek a win over a rebuilding team. If it does, you cannot honestly believe this team is a contender.

So that's why I'm less optimistic.

Great post, here's my take on your post,

The Kings right now, are paying for their Cup wins, and the lure of trying to stay atop as contenders, that's the price of doing business in a cap world.

The infrastructure as you put it, is either solid, or it's not, that same infrastructure brought players like Schenn, Simmonds, Voynov, Hickey, etc to fruition, and they ended up using them as trade bait, or one in Hickey was a causality of waivers.

You either believe they can continue to draft like they have in the past, and therefore keep picks, and keep the infrastructure, or you don't and you have to tear it down again and build it back up

In regards to the AHL, that's a developmental league, and while everyone wants to win, the #1 priority of that league is development, so the coaches/managers/players will focus on that, not necessarily wins/losses, so if Brickley continues to improve game by game, and the team is losing, so be it, there's player improvement. If he's not improving, then you have to look at the development coaches and figure out where the problem is, has he plateaued, or are they stuck.

I doubt that Blake is there going, at least we are selling tickets, etc, he's actively evaluating the roster, game by game, in discussion with both AHL and NHL coaches and talking about who they want to keep, go, can we trade a Martinez right now....what do we want back etc....how would it affect the room, can we get back a 1st and a prospect and promote Brickley etc, there's a WHOLE lot of questions being asked again and again, and it's process, it's not a one trade fix all problem they have, they have to evaluate who is in their plans long term as well as short term, and one misstep, ala Lucic can set the team back years.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh hey what happened to the part about calling me an idiot? And there’s a handful of shots from the slot, between the circles, not the inflated number you claimed earlier.

In the first period there was the Pearson shot from a prime scoring area that Lundqvist didn’t have to flinch on that stuck out, and one goal mouth area scramble Lundqvist was sharp on. Then it was a lull game until the PP came to life.

How anyone finds that to be a wrong statement is just being argumentative for the sake of disagreement. I didn’t even say they played a poor game, but you read what you want to read.

You realize that's the MIN game right...not the NYR game....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh hey what happened to the part about calling me an idiot? And there’s a handful of shots from the slot, between the circles, not the inflated number you claimed earlier.

In the first period there was the Pearson shot from a prime scoring area that Lundqvist didn’t have to flinch on that stuck out, and one goal mouth area scramble Lundqvist was sharp on. Then it was a lull game until the PP came to life.

How anyone finds that to be a wrong statement is just being argumentative for the sake of disagreement. I didn’t even say they played a poor game, but you read what you want to read.

So you never said the Kings played half the game poorly? Never? LOL Really?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh hey what happened to the part about calling me an idiot? And there’s a handful of shots from the slot, between the circles, not the inflated number you claimed earlier.

In the first period there was the Pearson shot from a prime scoring area that Lundqvist didn’t have to flinch on that stuck out, and one goal mouth area scramble Lundqvist was sharp on. Then it was a lull game until the PP came to life.

How anyone finds that to be a wrong statement is just being argumentative for the sake of disagreement. I didn’t even say they played a poor game, but you read what you want to read.

Here is the NYR one,

GameTracker

1st period, 5 shots from the house, NYR 2 shots....yep, quality not quantity right?

 

[YP44]

I am happy the Kings won. I would never *want* them to lose. And I commend people who can be positive even during the past few years. I was more positive up until this year.

I do think many of us have a genuine concern that management will keep sailing towards the iceberg despite numerous red flags. Maybe the iceberg is an optical illusion, and everything will work out fine. These are the concerns, though:
- The current head coach has been in the organization since 2010, either as a head, assistant, or interim coach.
- The core players who have shown a consistent ability to deliver on a high end and as a whole, improve, were drafted in 2003, 2005 and 2008 (Carter, Kopitar, Quick, Doughty)
- Many of the members of the development staff have been in the org in some capacity over several years. Their biggest change has been in strength and conditioning
- A lot of the scouting staff have been in place for a seemingly long time, starting with Futa and Yanetti (who I admittedly have a great deal of admiration for)

In summary, the infrastructure, from management, to coaches, to development, to scouting to players, has been here for a long time.

The Kings are tied for the 2nd worst team in the league. Two of their three wins have been against the worst team in the league and the team they are tied with for worst. The Ontario Reign is the 3rd worst team in the AHL. If you can't have a good NHL team, you better have a good future/AHL team to buoy your future, and right now the Kings have neither. Their combined record is 4-11-4.

There are some hopefuls: JAD and Vilardi look like great picks from 2017. 2018 is a boom or bust draft, as all the picks were somewhat high risk/high reward type. So we can't really evaluate that one yet. But from 2010 to 2016, the Kings have 4 players they've drafted currently playing on a regular basis: Pearson, Toffoli, Forbort, Kempe. They have 2 on the roster who have played in about half the games: Wagner and LaDue. They have one which was assigned back to the AHL: Amadio. That's an average of one player per draft who is seeing NHL time on the Kings, and none of which have shown they can be counted on to anchor their line/pairing. They are more benefiting from playing with the veterans versus helping the veterans elevate their game.

I know there were a lot of trades from Lombardi which affected these numbers, but that's kind of the point. The team is missing pieces, and there's a very large gap between the veterans who have taken over and the youth who you hope will take over.

It's looking more and more that Blake cannot or will not do something unless there is a catastrophe. Whether it's him, Luc, or AEG, there are people who seemingly think everything is okay by the lack of tangible changes. It's just been talk.

It should NOT take the return of one player who's been with the org for 15 years to inspire the team to play their best game and still barely eek a win over a rebuilding team. If it does, you cannot honestly believe this team is a contender.

So that's why I'm less optimistic.

Good breakdown. I just think in today's NHL you can re-tool faster than ever. If LA continues to be bad this year I do not think that means things need to be blown up, but that youth and desire need to be brought in. The core of Drew, Kopitar and Quick can still be salvaged. You pointing out the development staff's tenure does make me fearful about the development of the players LA drafts. I am less concerned about the scouting team as really the last two years were really the first couple of years they have been given a full set of picks to work with, and so far 2017 draft looks ok.

 

[KINGS17]

lol true but they were half full when i last posted to him I must say thanks for showing me there are still true fans out there with ur half full approach I have given up the don quitoe attempt to send positive vibes in here but will always recognize ones that do. Please don't let them get to u

I am not sure how long you have been posting on this board, but if you check with any long term posters you will find many who are what you would call "negative" (i.e realistic) today, were brimming with optimism during the 2011-12 season.

 

[KINGS17]

they were DOWN 2-0 AT home against a TERRIBLE Rangers team

i'm really ecstatic that the kings are 3-7-1
you should be too

that's 3 WINS which is the same number as the holy trinity in the Bible

that's pretty positive! can't get more positive than that!

also if you add up the losses, 7+1 = 8 which is EXACTLY the jersey # of Drew Doughty

is Drew Doughty Jesus?

stay tuned

That trinity thing means three? Huh, who knew.

 

[KINGS17]

A. it's early,
B. yes, they were down, and? 60 minute game, they weren't down because they were playing like ****, they were down because Cambpell let in a really really really bad goal, and Namestenkov drove the net, and Lewis helped them...

Sorry, but you need "C" to make it a trinity.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Sorry, but you need "C" to make it a trinity.

LOL I probably had one might have gotten reported though

 

[KINGS17]

Good breakdown. I just think in today's NHL you can re-tool faster than ever. If LA continues to be bad this year I do not think that means things need to be blown up, but that youth and desire need to be brought in. The core of Drew, Kopitar and Quick can still be salvaged. You pointing out the development staff's tenure does make me fearful about the development of the players LA drafts. I am less concerned about the scouting team as really the last two years were really the first couple of years they have been given a full set of picks to work with, and so far 2017 draft looks ok.

Retool? How old will Quick and Kopitar be when the "retool" is complete?

 

[Winger23]

You think the 2-0 goal was a good goal??

Does it matter? It's not like the reason the kings are bad is because of a bunch of soft goals let in by Campbell or quick.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Retool? How old will Quick and Kopitar be when the "retool" is complete?

Yeah that's one of the big concerns. Hopefully Peterson can platoon with Quick in a year or two and Villardi gets a bionic back.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Does it matter? It's not like the reason the kings are bad is because of a bunch of soft goals let in by Campbell or quick.

I dunno, reading through a GDT on any given game, some says it matters, some says it don't, what it doesn't indicate is that if the Kings were playing poorly, or playing good, agreed?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You say this one took a fortunate last minute wrist shot, but you don't recognize the fortunate goal that put them up 2-0, gonna go there, again, it's a game of bounces etc, the Kings played well in this game from start to finish regardless if they were down or not, they played well, they controlled the play, they dictated the pace, yea, they had their foot off of the pedal, and probably could have or should have converted more of the shots, but again, they played better than they have in weeks, and everyone is pissing and moaning about that,

Everyone recognizes this team should be better than they are, not saying contenders, but as you said, better than a 41 point team probably not a 95 point team, yet, when they start to play better, everyone *****es and moans.

I can only speak for me but in this case I'm skeptical that they're 'starting to play better' given the context (NYR), that's all my message boils down to.

If that's repeatable, I'll concede. Problem is, this game and parts of the Montreal game are the aberrations so far.

 

[Winger23]

I dunno, reading through a GDT on any given game, some says it matters, some says it don't, what it doesn't indicate is that if the Kings were playing poorly, or playing good, agreed?

They played decent against one of the worst teams in the league. Have they even played decent against a good team?

Playing bad against a crappy team happens, as you correctly said any team can beat another on a given night. So far this year the kings have only beaten other bad teams. Do you feel this is a playoff team beyond a wc2 spot? If the answer is no then why would continue to support the current course?

Edit, raccoon above stated my thoughts much better.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I can only speak for me but in this case I'm skeptical that they're 'starting to play better' given the context (NYR), that's all my message boils down to.

If that's repeatable, I'll concede. Problem is, this game and parts of the Montreal game are the aberrations so far.

Absolutely, but it's a start, problem is people can't even get around that

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They played decent against one of the worst teams in the league. Have they even played decent against a good team?

Playing bad against a crappy team happens, as you correctly said any team can beat another on a given night. So far this year the kings have only beaten other bad teams. Do you feel this is a playoff team beyond a wc2 spot? If the answer is no then why would continue to support the current course?

Edit, raccoon above stated my thoughts much better.

Longer response needed than I have patience for on my phone, I think if the players play up to their potential they can be, not impressed with SJ, VGS, or ANA at all, having said that yea la has to play better every game

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Absolutely, but it's a start, problem is people can't even get around that

I think you're just stubborn and prideful, to be perfectly honest. You've been the resident cheerleader for months, and now that the team is objectively awful, you can't admit you were wrong.

RJ is one of the most positive people here, and even he saw the writing on the wall 4-5 games into the season. There's no reason you can't do the same.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think you're just stubborn and prideful, to be perfectly honest. You've been the resident cheerleader for months, and now that the team is objectively awful, you can't admit you were wrong.

RJ is one of the most positive people here, and even he saw the writing on the wall 4-5 games into the season. There's no reason you can't do the same.

Please show me where I said they were contenders.

Please show me where they played God awful and I said differently?

Please show me where I've said Steven's is the right coach doing things right.

And last please show me where I've said this is great roster

 

[Bandit]

Please show me where I said they were contenders.

Please show me where they played God awful and I said differently?

Please show me where I've said Steven's is the right coach doing things right.

And last please show me where I've said this is great roster

The answers you seek are here:

http://letsgokings.com

Bon Voyage

 

[damacles1156]

The Rangers are an AHL team, that almost beat the Kings. That's the story.

 

[Bandit]

The Rangers are an AHL team, that almost beat the Kings. That's the story.

At least they're not an ECHL team, that would REALLY be embarrassing.

 

[Sol]

I've been a fan for over a couple decades, ever since I was a kid I was a fan.

I felt 2011-2012 was our year during the offseason, everything looked really good on paper, and they fell flat during the regular season which was a huge blow to me.

I don't consider myself negative nor positive, where I stand is here, I still think the roster on paper is talented and can make some good strides forward. But that's if they fire Stevens Nachbaur, and clean house with the Kings personnel. Even futa/yanetti.. I respect them, but drafting has been a real issue now as well.


I hope Blake is the one for the job and I do truly believe that this team will never recover unless Blake fires Stevens and CO. If he doesn't fire Stevens and Nachbaur this year, I am afraid the team will never recover from this.


We all want to see the Kings do well. As a competitive person I don't support tanking but if tanking is what gets people fired, and top end picks, then I don't mind them crashing and burning because the result will steer the organization in the right direction.