Tribute Give Dubas a letter grade on the 2022 draft

[Mitch nylander]

Don't know what the deal is with Logan Morrison. I believe he was not drafted. 34g 66a 100p in 60 games. 39 points in the playoffs.

Logan Morrison​

Center -- shoots R
Born Jul 9 2002 -- Guelph, ONT
[20 yrs. ago]
Height 6.00 -- Weight 180 [183 cm/82 kg]

Kid from an hour down the road was surely was worth a 7th. No idea who Lisowsky is but I'd be willing to bet he never plays.

Brandon Lisowsky​

Left Wing -- shoots L
Born Apr 13 2004 -- Port Coquitlam, BC
[18 yrs. ago]
Height 5.08 -- Weight 171 [173 cm/78 kg]

Yes Logan Morrison is definitely worth a flyer.

But the fact that your comparing these two players in this way makes me think you have no insight on Lisowsky.

Lisowsky was probably our best value pick all day. If you're to fault any pick it should be Grebenkin.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Thank God drafting is his forte. The dummy Hunter only drafted our 3 best players. The dummy Burkie was only able to draft our best dman.

2014 - Hunter wasn't even part of the organization to draft Nylander....
2015 - was a draft run by Dubas and Shanahan... Sure, Marner was influenced by Hunter in London but in reality that whole draft was equally pushed by Dubas and Shanny.
2016- Matthews was the obvious #1 guy. Nobody would have picked anyone else.

Just seems like such a non sensical comment.

2017- he did great with Liljegren. I think that was an excellent value pick. But let's look at the rest of the draft. Every single big dman they drafted flopped when they could have went for something else.

-------------------
Now let's look at Burke.

Yes - He did great on Morgan Rielly, and did well with handing Tommy Bergman late round picks to draft. Kadri was a great value pick. Plus he hit on some nhl depth in mid rounds (Brown, Leivo, Mckegg, Hayes)

But we also have to look at his whole body of work.

2008 - Luke Schenn 5th overall. Yes he's been a good bottom pair guy, but with a pick that high you don't aim for a bottom pair guy.
2010- Brad Ross was our highest pick In the draft. His model of drafting big grinders was such a waste.
2011- That philosophy continued where he traded away two picks that became John Gibson and Rickard Rakell only to pick a big guy with a lack of tools in Biggs. Tyler Biggs couldn't even crack the Ahl full time. He also wasted another 1st on Stuart Percy when much better options were available.
--------------------

Yes you can say Hunter did well, but most of those picks were slam dunks. When it comes to finding mid round picks to crack the nhl, he failed us immensely. By now we should have some Elc middle of the lineup players from those drafts and we don't. Dubas's draft seem to be much more promising based on having numerous middle round picks getting games or tracking well, (Robertson, Niemela, Holmberg, Abbruzzese, Durzi for LA, Knies).

Burke hit in the middle rounds but failed catastrophically with multiple 1sts. Biggs, Percy, Schenn... I assumed his staff also led to keeping that same philosophy for choosing Gauthier.

I think you need to look at the full picture...

 

[ToneDog]

2014 - Hunter wasn't even part of the organization to draft Nylander....
2015 - was a draft run by Dubas and Shanahan... Sure, Marner was influenced by Hunter in London but in reality that whole draft was equally pushed by Dubas and Shanny.
2016- Matthews was the obvious #1 guy. Nobody would have picked anyone else.

Just seems like such a non sensical comment.

2017- he did great with Liljegren. I think that was an excellent value pick. But let's look at the rest of the draft. Every single big dman they drafted flopped when they could have went for something else.

-------------------
Now let's look at Burke.

Yes - He did great on Morgan Rielly, and did well with handing Tommy Bergman late round picks to draft. Kadri was a great value pick. Plus he hit on some nhl depth in mid rounds (Brown, Leivo, Mckegg, Hayes)

But we also have to look at his whole body of work.

2008 - Luke Schenn 5th overall. Yes he's been a good bottom pair guy, but with a pick that high you don't aim for a bottom pair guy.
2010- Brad Ross was our highest pick In the draft. His model of drafting big grinders was such a waste.
2011- That philosophy continued where he traded away two picks that became John Gibson and Rickard Rakell only to pick a big guy with a lack of tools in Biggs. Tyler Biggs couldn't even crack the Ahl full time. He also wasted another 1st on Stuart Percy when much better options were available.
--------------------

Yes you can say Hunter did well, but most of those picks were slam dunks. When it comes to finding mid round picks to crack the nhl, he failed us immensely. By now we should have some Elc middle of the lineup players from those drafts and we don't. Dubas's draft seem to be much more promising based on having numerous middle round picks getting games or tracking well, (Robertson, Niemela, Holmberg, Abbruzzese, Durzi for LA, Knies).

Burke hit in the middle rounds but failed catastrophically with multiple 1sts. Biggs, Percy, Schenn... I assumed his staff also led to keeping that same philosophy for choosing Gauthier.

I think you need to look at the full picture...

I was giving Hunter and Burke backhanded compliments. They did pretty good with their early picks and not much thereafter.

Dubas hasn't picked high for known reason but the jury is still out on his picks. We need them to hit soon.

 

[Mess]

Are you including this year’s draft in that “nothing to show for it”? Because the math doesn’t add up.

They’ve made 2 first round picks in the last 4 years. Unfortunately one of them was diagnosed with a brain tumour.

Traded 1st last 4 years
===========================
2019 - 1st - Traded to LA for Jake Muzzin
2020 - 1st - Traded to Carolina with Patrick Marleau
2021 - 1st - Traded to Columbus for Nick Foligno
2022 - 1st - Traded to Chicago with Petr Mrazek

Re-captured 1sts last 4 years
===================
The Toronto Maple Leafs have traded Phil Kessel to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

In return Toronto gets centre Nick Spaling, forward Kasperi Kapanen (former 1st #22OA in 2014), defenceman Scott Harrington, plus first- and third-round picks from 2016. Toronto will retain $1.2 million of Kessel’s salary in each of the next seven seasons. The Leafs are also sending forward Tyler Biggs, defenceman Tim Erixon and a 2016 second-round pick to Pittsburgh.

2020 - Leafs trade Kasperi Kapanen back to Pittsburgh for 1st 15th overall .. Rodion Amirov

One could say that Amirov is now the residual return remaining from the original Phil Kessel trade when Leafs sent their leading scorer to the Pens.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes Logan Morrison is definitely worth a flyer.

But the fact that your comparing these two players in this way makes me think you have no insight on Lisowsky.

Lisowsky was probably our best value pick all day. If you're to fault any pick it should be Grebenkin.

Absolutely right. Guessing odds of a hitting on a 7th are low, odds of hitting on a 7th small forward are lower.

Either way, be great to sign Morrison now.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Traded 1st last 4 years
===========================
2019 - 1st - Traded to LA for Jake Muzzin
2020 - 1st - Traded to Carolina with Patrick Marleau
2021 - 1st - Traded to Columbus for Nick Foligno
2022 - 1st - Traded to Chicago with Petr Mrazek

Re-captured 1sts last 4 years
===================
The Toronto Maple Leafs have traded Phil Kessel to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

In return Toronto gets centre Nick Spaling, forward Kasperi Kapanen (former 1st #22OA in 2014), defenceman Scott Harrington, plus first- and third-round picks from 2016. Toronto will retain $1.2 million of Kessel’s salary in each of the next seven seasons. The Leafs are also sending forward Tyler Biggs, defenceman Tim Erixon and a 2016 second-round pick to Pittsburgh.

2020 - Leafs trade Kasperi Kapanen back to Pittsburgh for 1st 15th overall .. Rodion Amirov

Well he said nothing to show, so that read that’s the prospects haven’t made an impact at the NHL, which isn’t quite fair to include 2022 since it just happened

 

[TGB]

All these draft comparisons make me appreciates the Jays drafting even more. Or maybe happening upon blue chip prospects is just that much harder when there are only 7 rounds (or so).

 

[Mess]

Well he said nothing to show, so that read that’s the prospects haven’t made an impact at the NHL, which isn’t quite fair to include 2022 since it just happened

While Bert, that is technically true, however any draft pick you trade away like Leafs 1st in 2022 with Mrazek is a guaranteed Zero return because you never made the pick regardless if it just occurred 2 days ago.

So we already know with 100% certainty as of today, there can't be any return from Leafs 2022 1st round selection from this draft class, because it was never made in the first place and no amount of time will change that.

Only Chicago needs to wait to see what may become of Sam Rinzel the player drafted with Leafs pick.

 

[zeke]

All these draft comparisons make me appreciates the Jays drafting even more. Or maybe happening upon blue chip prospects is just that much harder when there are only 7 rounds (or so).

Jays

2018: J.Groshans (22, AAA)
2019: A.Manoah (24, MLB)
2020: A.Martin (23, AA)
2021: R.Tiedemann (19, A+), G.Hoglund (22, ---)


Not sure there's any other prospects of note.

Leafs

2018: R.Sandin (21, NHL), S.Durzi (23, NHL), P.Holmberg (22, AHL)
2019: N.Robertson (20, AHL), N.Abbruzese (22, AHL)
2020: R.Amirov (20, RUS), R.Hirvonen (19, FIN), T.Niemela (19, FIN)
2021: M.Knies (19, NCAA)

 

[Stephen]

While Bert, that is technically true, however any draft pick you trade away like Leafs 1st in 2022 with Mrazek is a guaranteed Zero return because you never made the pick regardless if it just occurred 2 days ago.

So we already know with 100% certainty as of today, there can't be any return from Leafs 2022 1st round selection from this draft class, because it was never made in the first place and no amount of time will change that.

What is also TBD is how quickly and cost effectively can Toronto solve its lack of NHL goalies with the money saved from Mrazek and the trade down. Toronto came out sluggish after that move.

If Edmonton and Washington out maneuver Toronto on Campbell and Kuemper and we’re stuck with Matt Murray going into the season, that might be the first step on the plank.

 

[Mess]

What is also TBD is how quickly and cost effectively can Toronto solve its lack of NHL goalies with the money saved from Mrazek and the trade down. Toronto came out sluggish after that move.

If Edmonton and Washington out maneuver Toronto on Campbell and Kuemper and we’re stuck with Matt Murray going into the season, that might be the first step on the plank.

Agreed there is a fallout here... Sure Leafs dealt away a goalie problem with Mrazek for cap space which is what we essentially got from the return on of 2022 1st round pick our $3.8 mil back from a previous bad investment.

Now how the Leafs use that cap space and having NO NHL goalies under contract with chairs filling up quickly is the next shoe to fall here.

Jack Campbell and his agent are laughing and in the drivers seat because even if Leafs use all of the $3.8 mil (from Mrazek) and then top that up to $5-6 mil AAV, What did the Leafs achieve by sacrificing their 1st because they already had Campbell last year, team is no different or better, so they might have giving up their 1st to pay for his raise, because of Leafs annual cap situation.

Plan B if Campbell departs, Leafs, might be scrambling for a solution that might include the often injured Matt Murray. Mrazek only dressed for 20 games for the Leafs, and Murray only played in 20 games for Ottawa and spent the rest on LTIR. If you re-invest Mrazek cap money into Murray making $6.25 mil AAV and you only get 20 of 82 games of service you might be looking at dealing even more draft capital in another trade in addition to 2022 1st already dealt to address this situation.

 

[rocketman588]

The biggest issue with Jack is I wonder what we could have gotten him for late last year

Could we have gone 4x3.5 or 3.x4

We probably cost ourselves a million or so a year with him by Dicking around

 

[ToneDog]

The biggest issue with Jack is I wonder what we could have gotten him for late last year

Could we have gone 4x3.5 or 3.x4

We probably cost ourselves a million or so a year with him by Dicking around

Why is it an issue with Jack? If rumours are true, Leafs have been lowballing him. This after most likely insulting him by signing a stiff for 2+x more money and more term. And I am not buying that players do not take things personally.

If I am Soup I am sticking it to Kyle. Pay me or kiss my ass.

 

[rocketman588]

Why is it an issue with Jack? If rumours are true, Leafs have been lowballing him. This after most likely insulting him by signing a stiff for 2+x more money and more term. And I am not buying that players do not take things personally.

If I am Soup I am sticking it to Kyle. Pay me or kiss my ass.

Sorry I mean the issue with signing him now not an issue with Jack as a person I'd probably be upset as well if I were him

It's a tough pill to swallow considering that we might be blowing extra cap space because we were low balling him for some weird reason

I was listening to either friedge or CJ and they said that both the AAV was low and the third year was like league min. Seems like we were basically telling him he wasn't worth keeping

 

[keonsbitterness]

How many opinions does he get for each pick? Shirley every team doesn't provide input on every eligible player.

With his contacts, it's probably closer to being representative of the league as a whole than rankings from other talking heads.

Jays

2018: J.Groshans (22, AAA)
2019: A.Manoah (24, MLB)
2020: A.Martin (23, AA)
2021: R.Tiedemann (19, A+), G.Hoglund (22, ---)

Is this cricket?

 

[AllDay28]

man, look at that Seider pick. everyone ripped on and he won Calder. Maybe grade at the end of the year

 

[beamer67]

C seems appropriate. The prospects are all fine. Average. Nothing bad happened. Nothing good happened. It was quiet for the Leafs other than fixing a mistake to get more cap space.

Now the real test starts. Grade will change a lot from now to the start of the season. I don't think they can go through another couple dud signings. Not all signings need to be home runs, but they can't be massive failures either on their top free agent signing(s).

Nothing good happened? I’d say getting rid of that contract the way he did was a good thing.

 

[Mess]

Nothing good happened? I’d say getting rid of that contract the way he did was a good thing.

The Sporting News ..

NHL Draft winners and losers 2022:​

Loser: Maple Leafs

*insert joke about the Maple Leafs finally moving out of the first*

Toronto elected not to keep their No. 25 pick, instead sending it, along with goalie Petr Mrazek, to the Blackhawks for a 2022 second-round pick. It was a salary dump move, but it came at a cost, and the Maple Leafs did not make any draft selections on Day 1.

Per usual, any move that Toronto makes surely gets overanalyzed by any and all Maple Leafs fans (and haters), but having to package the first-round pick in order to get rid of a player is never great. If they're able to use that money to sign a legit goalie, then it will pay off. But I can't imagine Leafs fans were thrilled to sit through most of the first round, only to have their pick moved.

NHL Draft winners and losers 2022: Sabres, Wild, Blue Jackets hit home runs; Shane Wright drops to No. 4 to Kraken | Sporting News Canada

Day 1 of the NHL Draft was full of surprising twists and turns

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Racer88]

Which would be "F" in bra size for those who may be wondering

Thx, good to know

The only good thing about this draft I’d Dubas fixed a problem he created the rest is long shots and hopefuls

 

[Morgs]

Overall Grade: B+

Mrazek Trade: A-

As a whole the trade to get rid of 3.8M/2 was extremely painless. Moving down 13 spots is quite literally nothing. I didn't like the signing originally, but I understood it, and it went about as poorly as you could possibly hope. The trade in a vacuum was well above average though for me.

Frazer Minten: B+

I like him as a prospect, I am a little concerned with the lack of development to his production, but there's an NHL player there if developed properly. I even think there's a 2C there. The B+ grade is because I think he was like 10-15th on my BPA list, and we let [much] higher ceiling players in Gleb, Hutson, and Goyette get picked after us.

Nicholas Moldenhauer: B+

Had him ranked 90th, we got him 96th. He wasn't my BPA, but he was a guy I had flagged as a big riser this upcoming year if he was actually as good as he was this season. I like the risk, I like the player, but he has some serious limiations (lack of real experience, lack of desire to use his shot).

Dennis Hildeby: No Grade

I don't rank goalies. I like the idea of taking a guy who's proven they can put up good numbers. I like goalies with some size (I don't care too much as long as they can stop the puck). I do like Swede's though, and here's hoping this is the goalie that finally f***ing works out.

Nikita Grebenkin: D+

I think there is a bit of an intriguing package here. The skills are tremendous and apparently the skating is fun to go with it. I didn't have him ranked because his production as a D1 wasn't nearly impressive enough, but I do like this FO's ability for drafting and taking a D1 in the MHL must have been a real "prove it to me" type of decision. I am upset seeing guys like Grudinin and Petrovsky picked after him though,

Brandon Lisowsky - A+

There's one reason I have him as an A+ and it's because I think we got incredible value with the pick. I had him ranked 59th, and if he was two inches taller I don't think he would have made it there with his package of skills.

 

[The Podium]

 

[All Mod Cons]

Overall Grade: B+

Mrazek Trade: A-

As a whole the trade to get rid of 3.8M/2 was extremely painless. Moving down 13 spots is quite literally nothing. I didn't like the signing originally, but I understood it, and it went about as poorly as you could possibly hope. The trade in a vacuum was well above average though for me.

Frazer Minten: B+

I like him as a prospect, I am a little concerned with the lack of development to his production, but there's an NHL player there if developed properly. I even think there's a 2C there. The B+ grade is because I think he was like 10-15th on my BPA list, and we let [much] higher ceiling players in Gleb, Hutson, and Goyette get picked after us.

Nicholas Moldenhauer: B+

Had him ranked 90th, we got him 96th. He wasn't my BPA, but he was a guy I had flagged as a big riser this upcoming year if he was actually as good as he was this season. I like the risk, I like the player, but he has some serious limiations (lack of real experience, lack of desire to use his shot).

Dennis Hildeby: No Grade

I don't rank goalies. I like the idea of taking a guy who's proven they can put up good numbers. I like goalies with some size (I don't care too much as long as they can stop the puck). I do like Swede's though, and here's hoping this is the goalie that finally f***ing works out.

Nikita Grebenkin: D+

I think there is a bit of an intriguing package here. The skills are tremendous and apparently the skating is fun to go with it. I didn't have him ranked because his production as a D1 wasn't nearly impressive enough, but I do like this FO's ability for drafting and taking a D1 in the MHL must have been a real "prove it to me" type of decision. I am upset seeing guys like Grudinin and Petrovsky picked after him though,

Brandon Lisowsky - A+

There's one reason I have him as an A+ and it's because I think we got incredible value with the pick. I had him ranked 59th, and if he was two inches taller I don't think he would have made it there with his package of skills.

Very, very harsh only giving him a B+ imo.

 

[saltming]

 

[kb]

Very, very harsh only giving him a B+ imo.

Yes, very harsh. I hope he can handle the terrible grading.

He may cry on TV. He may swear and throw a spreadsheet. He may blame his scouts who failed him. Maybe he'll blame his mom for birthing him. Or perhaps he may go on a mass murderous rampage. I mean.....the man is sick, he's demented.

 

[TGB]

Jays

2018: J.Groshans (22, AAA)
2019: A.Manoah (24, MLB)
2020: A.Martin (23, AA)
2021: R.Tiedemann (19, A+), G.Hoglund (22, ---)

Missing a few names there, bud. XD