Tribute Give Dubas a letter grade on the 2022 draft

[Leafsfan74]

C

It is what it is.

It's just unfortunate that the Leaf players haven't rewarded Dubas for being active, making moves and constantly trying to improve the team and go on a long run. He has had to spend draft capital to work some deals and deal with the flat Cap. Active GMs bring hope and faith that he won't settle and the team will consistently throw darts and go for it.

Yes, in the Cap era every team needs to refresh talent and have some affordable options. I'd be much more concerned if the Leafs were constantly shipping out top talent in return for draft picks in perpetual "rebuild/let's try and make the playoffs" mode. Better to be on the right side of 100 points and the potential to beat any team.

Oh, and the refs can go to hell for gifting T.B the First Round. The league should be apologizing to the Leafs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

A for absent

 

[ToneDog]

Weird that there would be more picks in 4 rounds than in 3 rounds.

Feel free to slice and dice it any way that makes you happy. Truth is higher picks are more valuable that lower picks.

 

[zeke]

Feel free to slice and dice it any way that makes you happy. Truth is higher picks are more valuable that lower picks.

5yrs

2 1sts
5 2nds
5 3rds
6 4ths
5 5ths
5 6ths
7 7ths

 

[hockeywiz542]

TRAIKOS: Scout says Habs, Jets, Leafs were big Canadian team winners at NHL draft

The Habs took the best player. The Jets took the biggest chances. And based on what little the Flames ended up with, it seems as though they had taken the week off …

torontosun.com

Toronto Maple Leafs Grade: A-minus

For the third time in four years, the Leafs did not have a first-round pick. And yet, despite having to package their 25th overall selection to Chicago in exchange for taking on Petr Mrazek’s contract, Seidel believed the GM Kyle Dubas managed to add to the team’s depleted cupboard. “Fraser Minten (No. 38) was not the sexiest name on the board, but he looks like a solid bet to be their third-line centre in a few years,” said Seidel, adding that Nicholas Moldenhauer, who Toronto got at No. 95 but who was ranked 48th on his list, “is a skilled winger” who had 43 points in 41 games in the USHL. “However, the home run pick that nobody foresaw was the selection of the massive 20-year-old goaltender Dennis Hildeby,” said Seidel. “He has the tools to become a solution in net in the not-too-distant future.”

 

[robertmac43]

B-

I think Dubas did well with what he had. Getting Mrazek off the books for basically nothing was solid and we added a couple of interesting prospects. Nothing too exciting, but I didn't have many expectations going into the draft anyway.

 

[Trapper]

Can’t give Dubas a grade for this draft.
You can only give him (scouts/management) a grade based on the number of quality players making their way into the big team to take prime support roles.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Mitten pick was good. Guy seems like a productive two way centre, who could be a third line centre for the Leafs. People need to understand, that we have so much money tied up on Matthews and Tavares, that at some point we gonna need a third line centre on an entry level contract. If he exceeds expectations and becomes a second line calibre, than great.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Ya I saw this on my twitter feed and was a bit taken aback by it in all honesty.

I am not a fan of the Fraser Minton selection at 38, and maybe that swayed my perception on the entirety of the draft thereafter. I just think you have to select higher variability, higher skill players at the top end of the drafts. That's just my opinion though. I'd much rather strike out on a Jeremy Bracco like player at the chance of getting a Matthew Knies/Nick Robertson. The Minton selection just felt very reminiscent of Freddy Gaulthier. Higher projectability but low upside. I will say I have complete faith in our scouting staff since Dubas has taken over and the player they had hoped to select at 38 was someone they felt was in their top 15. If that player was in fact Fraser Minton then they clearly see an upside that maybe other teams didn't. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I was a fan of the remaining selections, it was just not a draft that made me feel overjoyed like I had been in previous drafts under Dubas.

Overall I'd give this draft a solid B.

 

[The Podium]

Ya I saw this on my twitter feed and was a bit taken aback by it in all honesty.

I am not a fan of the Fraser Minton selection at 38, and maybe that swayed my perception on the entirety of the draft thereafter. I just think you have to select higher variability, higher skill players at the top end of the drafts. That's just my opinion though. I'd much rather strike out on a Jeremy Bracco like player at the chance of getting a Matthew Knies/Nick Robertson. The Minton selection just felt very reminiscent of Freddy Gaulthier. Higher projectability but low upside. I will say I have complete faith in our scouting staff since Dubas has taken over and the player they had hoped to select at 38 was someone they felt was in their top 15. If that player was in fact Fraser Minton then they clearly see an upside that maybe other teams didn't. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I was a fan of the remaining selections, it was just not a draft that made me feel overjoyed like I had been in previous drafts under Dubas.

Overall I'd give this draft a solid B.

I would say Matthew Knies is closer to Fraser Minton than to Robertson or Bracco.

Safe all around player whose role was limited by team depth/injury.

 

[Trapper]

Ya I saw this on my twitter feed and was a bit taken aback by it in all honesty.

I am not a fan of the Fraser Minton selection at 38, and maybe that swayed my perception on the entirety of the draft thereafter. I just think you have to select higher variability, higher skill players at the top end of the drafts. That's just my opinion though. I'd much rather strike out on a Jeremy Bracco like player at the chance of getting a Matthew Knies/Nick Robertson. The Minton selection just felt very reminiscent of Freddy Gaulthier. Higher projectability but low upside. I will say I have complete faith in our scouting staff since Dubas has taken over and the player they had hoped to select at 38 was someone they felt was in their top 15. If that player was in fact Fraser Minton then they clearly see an upside that maybe other teams didn't. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I was a fan of the remaining selections, it was just not a draft that made me feel overjoyed like I had been in previous drafts under Dubas.

Overall I'd give this draft a solid B.

So we are great decisions limited opportunities, while the 3 teams in our division (going for the rebuild around the time we are all UFA) are great decisions, great opportunities.

 

[zeke]

So we are great decisions limited opportunities, while the 3 teams in our division (going for the rebuild around the time we are all UFA) are great decisions, great opportunities.

Last 5 drafts

TOR

#29 '18 R.Sandin (21): 88gms
#52 '18 S.Durzi (23): 64gms
#53 '19 N.Robertson (20): 16gms
#124 '19 N.Abbruzese (22): 9gms

FLA

#15 '20 A.Lundell (20): 65gms
#13 '19 S.Knight (21): 36gms
#52 '19 V.Kolyachonok (20): 32gms
#15 '18 G.Denisenko (21): 8gms
#81 '19 C.Schwindt (20): 3gms

TB

#27 '19 N.Foote (20): 13gms
#59 '18 G.Fortier (21): 10gms
#71 '19 H.Anfelt (20): 1gms

BOS

none

 

[Marmoset]

Ya I saw this on my twitter feed and was a bit taken aback by it in all honesty.

I am not a fan of the Fraser Minton selection at 38, and maybe that swayed my perception on the entirety of the draft thereafter. I just think you have to select higher variability, higher skill players at the top end of the drafts. That's just my opinion though. I'd much rather strike out on a Jeremy Bracco like player at the chance of getting a Matthew Knies/Nick Robertson. The Minton selection just felt very reminiscent of Freddy Gaulthier. Higher projectability but low upside. I will say I have complete faith in our scouting staff since Dubas has taken over and the player they had hoped to select at 38 was someone they felt was in their top 15. If that player was in fact Fraser Minton then they clearly see an upside that maybe other teams didn't. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I was a fan of the remaining selections, it was just not a draft that made me feel overjoyed like I had been in previous drafts under Dubas.

Overall I'd give this draft a solid B.

I agree 100% on your philosophy with drafting high upside players in the early rounds. I am concerned when I hear the upside of Minten as a third line centre - that's a decent prospect but not the guy you should be drafting in the early second round. However, it's entirely possible the Leafs see more upside than the "experts" do, which you also mention.

I find draft grades to generally be useless in any sport because it basically becomes a case of giving high grades for a 'steal' (i.e. taking a higher ranked player that falls to you) and low grades for a 'reach' (because the player wasn't so high in the rankings). If it was as easy as that, we could just assign the players to each team based on the central scouting list and save the hours it takes to get through the actual draft. Finally, the vast majority of people in this thread have no idea about any of these prospects, or at least didn't until the Leafs drafted them.

I like the Mrazek trade and I'm surprised the Blackhawks took the entire contract to only move up 13 spots. Of course, the Mrazek signing was predictably bad and if that hadn't happened, the Leafs could have kept the pick. I also like the Leafs trading down to get some more picks because they need quantity as much as quality in their prospect pool right now.

In a few years we will come back and see where things are. I don't think Dubas has earned the confidence many people show in his drafting, but neither should we be bashing his picks since most of them have not year reached the point or age where they can reasonably be expected to contribute in the NHL.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I agree 100% on your philosophy with drafting high upside players in the early rounds. I am concerned when I hear the upside of Minten as a third line centre - that's a decent prospect but not the guy you should be drafting in the early second round. However, it's entirely possible the Leafs see more upside than the "experts" do, which you also mention.

I find draft grades to generally be useless in any sport because it basically becomes a case of giving high grades for a 'steal' (i.e. taking a higher ranked player that falls to you) and low grades for a 'reach' (because the player wasn't so high in the rankings). If it was as easy as that, we could just assign the players to each team based on the central scouting list and save the hours it takes to get through the actual draft. Finally, the vast majority of people in this thread have no idea about any of these prospects, or at least didn't until the Leafs drafted them.

I like the Mrazek trade and I'm surprised the Blackhawks took the entire contract to only move up 13 spots. Of course, the Mrazek signing was predictably bad and if that hadn't happened, the Leafs could have kept the pick. I also like the Leafs trading down to get some more picks because they need quantity as much as quality in their prospect pool right now.

In a few years we will come back and see where things are. I don't think Dubas has earned the confidence many people show in his drafting, but neither should we be bashing his picks since most of them have not year reached the point or age where they can reasonably be expected to contribute in the NHL.

Ya I think everything you said is completely fair. I am a big fan of Kyle Dubas' management style for a number of reasons, some of which were on full display this weekend. It would have been easy for Kyle to run it back with Petr and attribute his bad year as just an off year derailed by injury. It's what a large number of NHL GM's have done and continue to do whenever they make mistakes. They'd much rather go down with their "pride" in tact vs. cutting their losses and admitting defeat. Moving down 13 spots in the draft to shed 2 years at 3.8AAV was an incredible move from Kyle IMO. It goes against any comparable price to dispose of a bad deal like that. Some tweets were suggesting the price of moving on from Mrazek and losing 13 spots in draft position is equivalent to a 7th rounder. Sure the signing in general probably should have never happened given Mrazek's lengthy injury history, but it was also understandable given our goaltending situation heading into last season. All n all, it was a very small price to pay to attempt getting competition/security in the pipes for 1 year. It was a swing and a miss, but really not the end of the world as it was mitigated very well with the trade.

In terms of Kyle's ability to draft, you're 100% correct on the fact that we cannot definitively applaud or scrutinize his selections quite yet. I will say, the early indications are very promising especially given the lack of high picks. I do suspect the Kyle's draft selections to start making an impact shortly though. Nick Robertson, Pontus Holmberg, Alex Steeves (UDFA), Curtis Douglas (UFA) being the likeliest of the bunch to make an impact this next coming year.

The Fraser Minten selection seemingly looks outside the traditional mold for what Dubas has historically selected in that position. He lacks the higher upside that we've seen in those higher picks. But as you mentioned, most people on here, including myself, really don't know shit about these kids and really base their "scouting" reports on internet clips and other people's scouting reports. I really believe the Leafs believe Fraser has some untapped potential that he has yet to showcase. I just cannot see them having Minten in their top 15 if they feel like his upside is 3rd line center. Makes no sense.

I am very interested in seeing him play at the summer showcase

 

[Canadian Finn]

A+++++

Dubas is a winner at everything he does.

We are lucky to have him.

 

[Stephen]

Ya I saw this on my twitter feed and was a bit taken aback by it in all honesty.

I am not a fan of the Fraser Minton selection at 38, and maybe that swayed my perception on the entirety of the draft thereafter. I just think you have to select higher variability, higher skill players at the top end of the drafts. That's just my opinion though. I'd much rather strike out on a Jeremy Bracco like player at the chance of getting a Matthew Knies/Nick Robertson. The Minton selection just felt very reminiscent of Freddy Gaulthier. Higher projectability but low upside. I will say I have complete faith in our scouting staff since Dubas has taken over and the player they had hoped to select at 38 was someone they felt was in their top 15. If that player was in fact Fraser Minton then they clearly see an upside that maybe other teams didn't. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I was a fan of the remaining selections, it was just not a draft that made me feel overjoyed like I had been in previous drafts under Dubas.

Overall I'd give this draft a solid B.

If it came down to having a borderline NHL role player like Frederik Gauthier for a couple of seasons vs a Jeremy Bracco whom we got 0 minutes of big league service time, why would we want the minor league skill guy?

 

[Twine Tickler]

If it came down to having a borderline NHL role player like Frederik Gauthier for a couple of seasons vs a Jeremy Bracco whom we got 0 minutes of big league service time, why would we want the minor league skill guy?

I am saying i'd rather go for a Jeremy Bracco style player who has higher upside with lower projectability over a Frederich Gauthier style player who is now in his 3rd organization and could not crack the lineup on either of the Arizona Coyotes and NJ Devils.

We may have got ~100 games or so out of Gauthier, but his value add was virtually negligible. He was selected with an upside of solid 3rd line center, ie. Jordan Staal. Incredibly low ceiling for a player selected in the top 2 rounds.

In my opinion I would much rather select higher variability/higher reward players in the top 2-3 rounds as the payoff is significantly higher than getting everyday roster players that are easily found in other ways. Look at Steeves, we acquired him as an undrafted college kid and he will likely fill a role very similar to what Gaulthier's was in the NHL. Only no draft capital was used to acquire Steeves. Curtis Douglas is another likely example of this. More than likely one of those 2 players will go on to have a comparable career to Freddy. Which is why I see no reason to select those low ceiling players.

Nick Robertson is a classic example of the type of player I would go for in early rounds. Find high end talent that is being slept on for 1 reason or another. In Nick's case it was his size. People seem to think Dubas just loves "smurfs", he likes talent. Overlooking talent because of lack of size just so happens to be one of the biggest reasons for players to fall.

Does anyone remember the Debrincat draft?? So many shitty players selected before him, including Egor Korshkov...

 

[Brew]

Anybody who has given Dubas a letter grade needs to visit this thread in 5 years to see how wrong they likely are.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Dubas is smart he trades away his first rounders

 

[Marmoset]

If it came down to having a borderline NHL role player like Frederik Gauthier for a couple of seasons vs a Jeremy Bracco whom we got 0 minutes of big league service time, why would we want the minor league skill guy?

You're looking at outcomes compared to potential. The argument is that Bracco had more potential than Gauthier, which I agree with. I'd rather draft a guy with the potential to be top-6 but with a significant chance of not making it, rather than the guy with a better chance of making it but is likely to only be a fourth liner. At least, that's the case with high picks.

If you feel Bracco never had the potential, no problem, that's subjective.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas is smart he trades away his first rounders

Can’t make the wrong pick when you don’t have one.

 

[PromisedLand]

Is there a bigger font than this?
F

just to be clear F is for failure before his fans come in and turn it into F is for fantastic

 

[Tak7]

Anybody who has given Dubas a letter grade needs to visit this thread in 5 years to see how wrong they likely are.

This.

Giving a letter grade now, is ridiculous.

We had people praising some of Hunter's drafts (remember the love-in for Korshkov lol?), and now that we are at a time when players picked back then should be pushing for the NHL, the Leafs prospect cupboard is bare.

 

[Stephen]

You're looking at outcomes compared to potential. The argument is that Bracco had more potential than Gauthier, which I agree with. I'd rather draft a guy with the potential to be top-6 but with a significant chance of not making it, rather than the guy with a better chance of making it but is likely to only be a fourth liner. At least, that's the case with high picks.

If you feel Bracco never had the potential, no problem, that's subjective.

On the flipside, you also can't fill up an entire developmental pipeline looking for the next Kirill Kaprizov and end up with a 2-4 of Dmytro Timashov. There's luck, but you also have to be kind of deliberate with your home run swings or you strike out. A lot.

 

[Marmoset]

On the flipside, you also can't fill up an entire developmental pipeline looking for the next Kirill Kaprizov and end up with a 2-4 of Dmytro Timashov. There's luck, but you also have to be kind of deliberate with your home run swings or you strike out. A lot.

I largely agree! That's why there are seven rounds in the draft though. To me, those high picks are where you should be looking for the stars. Again, maybe the Leafs do see some upside (I presume they do).