Sportsnet: Giroux talks very quiet, Flyers not believed to have been offered any big deals

[Rich Nixon]

He had his highest point total then, but he was a much more dangerous player from 10-14. His numbers in 17-18 had more to do with a change in system the Flyers were playing, and his playoffs that year was horrendous.

Yeah no idea what you're talking about here. He may have been a flashier player at that point (and even that's kinda debatable) but he was not more dangerous in 2013 than he was in 2018, and it wasn't a Dave Hakstol system change (those don't exist) that produced a 44-point increase. It was primarily having Couturier on his line--"moving to wing" though really he and Couts sort of split duties evenly when they play together.

 

[Hobnobs]

Brad Stuart and brad may? LOL. Also, bourque didn’t win the cup the year he was traded at the deadline. HF being HF

Problem for you is that it has happened multiple times. The year Bourque won it the star player traded to the cup winner was Rob Blake. Red Wings bringing in Larry Murphy, Mogilny to the Devils, Canes picking up Weight and Recchi, Kings with both the Carter and Gaborik deals.

 

[Hobnobs]

Butch Goring I think as well .....

Butch Goring is the famous deadline deal that started the "trend" of improving at the deadline. So yes.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Giroux and Provorov for 1st, Grans, Turcotte, Walker

 

[paragon]

Ray Bourque, Marion Gaborik, Jeff Carter, Kimmo Timonen, Brad Stuart, and Brad May all come to mind, and that's just off the top of my head.

Looks like you didn't have to wait too long

Timonen was far from star quality by the time it happened. He averaged less than 9 minutes of ice time in the playoffs.

 

[TML1967]

My bet: Colarado and Philly already have a deal in place, and he will be moved after his 1000 game.

As a Leaf fan I would be astonished if he doesnt get moved, as he will easily get a 1st+ good young prospect. Giroux from the way he has talked about the team since he was drafted, I could also see him signing back with Philly.

 

[3074326]

Timonen was far from star quality by the time it happened. He averaged less than 9 minutes of ice time in the playoffs.

There are five other examples there, too.

Rentals can definitely help. Absolutely dumbfounded that this conversation is even happening.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yeah no idea what you're talking about here. He may have been a flashier player at that point (and even that's kinda debatable) but he was not more dangerous in 2013 than he was in 2018, and it wasn't a Dave Hakstol system change (those don't exist) that produced a 44-point increase. It was primarily having Couturier on his line--"moving to wing" though really he and Couts sort of split duties evenly when they play together.

In Hakstol's third year the Flyers moved from a very conservative breakout to one where one or both wingers would cheat up ice, with the goal of either springing a 2 on 1 or pushing back the D to more easily carry it into the zone. This change gave Giroux more space, where he has always excelled, especially on the rush.

This strategy can be successful in the regular season, for example CBJ did it under Tortorella for a couple years, but usually doesn't in the playoffs when teams are gameplanning against it.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yeah no idea what you're talking about here. He may have been a flashier player at that point (and even that's kinda debatable) but he was not more dangerous in 2013 than he was in 2018, and it wasn't a Dave Hakstol system change (those don't exist) that produced a 44-point increase. It was primarily having Couturier on his line--"moving to wing" though really he and Couts sort of split duties evenly when they play together.

In Hakstol's third year the Flyers moved from a very conservative breakout to one where one or both wingers would cheat up ice, with the goal of either springing a 2 on 1 or pushing back the D to more easily carry it into the zone. This change gave Giroux more space, where he has always excelled, especially on the rush.

This strategy can be successful in the regular season, for example CBJ did it under Tortorella for a couple years, but usually doesn't in the playoffs when teams are gameplanning against it.

 

[Hobnobs]

Timonen was far from star quality by the time it happened. He averaged less than 9 minutes of ice time in the playoffs.

Timonen was considered a star or just below when the trade was made. Still playing 20 mins a night in the NHL. Hawks depths on defense has no bearing on that.

 

[captainpaxil]

I think there is still a pretty strong possibility of him re signing in Philadelphia

 

[paragon]

Timonen was considered a star or just below when the trade was made. Still playing 20 mins a night in the NHL. Hawks depths on defense has no bearing on that.

He was a 2nd pairing defenseman 4 years removed from first pairing ice time. Claiming he was a star is a stretch. That's like saying anyone trading for Duncan Keith is gaining a star player. Even that is a generous comparison for Timonen, because Keith is still actually a 2nd pairing guy.

I'm not hating on Kimmo. He was a great player. One of the best Finland ever produced. He just wasn't a star by the time the trade went down.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Contending teams don’t have much cap space, girioux even max retained is still 4.2 mil
who the heck even has room for that cap

The Bruins do

 

[flyerslducks]

He didn't fall off a cliff, but he looks to be past his prime. Giroux was an even better player in his prime than he is now.

But to say this and just disregard players like him is kinda crazy to me. He can easily score 70 on a better team. Look at guys like pavelski…he doesn’t have the wheels but they are still producing. To say he won’t get to 60-70 or anything is kinda short sighted. Not saying you are saying he can’t and he probably is last his prime, but that doesn’t mean these types of players can be productive at all.

 

[flyerslducks]

He was a 2nd pairing defenseman 4 years removed from first pairing ice time. Claiming he was a star is a stretch. That's like saying anyone trading for Duncan Keith is gaining a star player. Even that is a generous comparison for Timonen, because Keith is still actually a 2nd pairing guy.

I'm not hating on Kimmo. He was a great player. One of the best Finland ever produced. He just wasn't a star by the time the trade went down.

I agree with this

 

[123offtheglass]

But to say this and just disregard players like him is kinda crazy to me. He can easily score 70 on a better team. Look at guys like pavelski…he doesn’t have the wheels but they are still producing. To say he won’t get to 60-70 or anything is kinda short sighted. Not saying you are saying he can’t and he probably is last his prime, but that doesn’t mean these types of players can be productive at all.

This just seems like misquotation or misinterpretation, did you mean to quote me?

Regarding Pavelski, I will say though that guys having a career year at the age of 37 is extremely rare.

 

[eramosat]

Because he's an outdated player. It's about speed and agility neither of which Giroux has been known for. He's a gritty playmaker with good fundamentals (face-offs, positioning).

To win a Stanley Cup, he's probably a 3C. That's why Colorado is more interested in Copp at a cheaper price for the same role. Or they'll pay up for Miller with a better contract.

Whoever signed the Kevin Hayes contract be sued by the city of Philadelphia. With their long-term contracts, I can't see them contending for a decade.

I'll just disagree with your Giroux assessment. Point by point, or maybe disagree with your assessment of what's necessary success in the NHL.

"It's about speed and agility..." Certainly good traits to have...but they face off against a lot of other NHL-worthy nouns...intelligence, uniqueness, determination, strength, savvy, toughness, leadership. I would welcome Giroux's lack of speed (maybe, but he chooses when) and agility (you must not watch him play much) are welcome given his other nouns.

Giroux "an outdated player"? I just assume the pages of the thread I did not read, this being one of the first few posts, took sufficient issue with this simpleton take, and that I have to say nothing more.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Timonen was considered a star or just below when the trade was made. Still playing 20 mins a night in the NHL. Hawks depths on defense has no bearing on that.

Timonen *most certainly* was not near a star when that trade happened. He barely even met the requirements of the trade to get full compensation due to not playing (scratched)

 

[FlyguyOX]

Scored point 900 tonight.

Slowing down for sure. Totally toast. Career over

 

[FlyguyOX]

Giroux and Provorov for 1st, Grans, Turcotte, Walker

Nah I think the flyers need to add a couple firsts to make that fair

 

[Rich Nixon]

In Hakstol's third year the Flyers moved from a very conservative breakout to one where one or both wingers would cheat up ice, with the goal of either springing a 2 on 1 or pushing back the D to more easily carry it into the zone. This change gave Giroux more space, where he has always excelled, especially on the rush.

This strategy can be successful in the regular season, for example CBJ did it under Tortorella for a couple years, but usually doesn't in the playoffs when teams are gameplanning against it.

That was always his "system." It didn't really change at all as far as anyone in Flyerdom could really tell. I'd be glad to be wrong here but I watched the same team do the same shit for his whole tenure--it was boom/bust hockey and they were wildly inconsistent throughout.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not a chance in the world that G gets traded before he plays his 1000th game for the Flyers..... March 18th or 19th he gets moved...Every team in the league knows this.... Step 1 teams ask Flyers what type of package their interested in (likely happened) ... Step 2 before any offers are going to be placed they find out if G will waive his NMC to go there (probably going on)...Step 3 G gives list to Flyers of teams he'd be willing to go to and when (has not happened according to speculation) Step 4 Flyers take offers from all teams selected and make best deal for them and G.. All these names etc thrown out past 3 weeks have been internet bait to get people to read their articles.... not if any of these rumor's take a rocket scientist to generate lol..

All? What if it's one?

 

[Hasbro]

Everyone knows it won't happen until after game 1000. It's the opposite of a deadline, it's an alive line.

 

[teoberto]

My bet: Colarado and Philly already have a deal in place, and he will be moved after his 1000 game.

As a Leaf fan I would be astonished if he doesnt get moved, as he will easily get a 1st+ good young prospect. Giroux from the way he has talked about the team since he was drafted, I could also see him signing back with Philly.

I am quite confident that Giroux to Avs will be announced on Friday. My bet on the return is Jost, Helleson and a conditional pick

 

[Holy Slapshot]

I'm not surprised if Flyers haven't been offered any big deals, but that wouldn't be because Giroux isn't top player anymore or cap fit anywhere. It would be because other GM's are watching the Fletcher muppet show very closely so they naturally think they can fleece him at the deadline.
And they're right, I personally think a 2nd and pair of gritty AHL goons will be the final price while it should be a 1st and passable prospect at least.