Friedman: Gibson is interested in Carolina, or Edmonton

[Zerotonine]

Just wanted to pass along this info I found floating around...

Stu and Gibson vs Top Teams:

Gibson vs Dallas .963 (Stu was .870 vs them)

Gibson vs Winnipeg .900 (Stu was .615)

Gibson vs Washington .880 (Stu had a .786)

Gibson's worst game was against Colorado with an .864 (last game Stu had a .750)

Gibson vs Florida .955 (Stu had a .786)

EDIT: I saw this posted elsewhere, might be good food for thought.

Gibson's worst performance this season was an .800 and he's only had four games under .870.

On the other hand, Skinner has had 13 games under .870 and five games under .800!

So based on the above, Stu has underperformed in at least 35% of his games, and only 17% for Gibson.

Now add in defensive statistics and it's mind blowing there is such a gap. Edmonton defensive is top 5 statistically this year and Skinner is having a worse season then last year

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Now add in defensive statistics and it's mind blowing there is such a gap. Edmonton defensive is top 5 statistically this year and Skinner is having a worse season then last year

Yep having a reliable back stop would go a long way for oilers.
I think its a good situation for oilers, and for gibson if the price is right.

Idk what PV's ask is.... but Gibson would likely give the oilers team a lot of confidence their goalie can cover for them when they potentially make mistakes.... which they prob dont feel right now.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Sure, why not add to it than? What other higher end goalies have been traded and for what return in recent years? That list was taken from a discussion of goalie value and recent trade history of goalies.

Right from the outset I disagree with the assessment of he's a higher end goalie, which is very much why I thought your list and trade expectations were outlandish. Also as an aside most of those trades didn't exactly work out very well for the acquiring team, which compounds my thought that its probably not a good idea to pay that much.

I will fully conceed Gibson has high end talent, but not high end results, in 5 of the last 6 seasons he has provided below league average goaltending results. I've also read all the excuses of our D is shit, but I see Dostal, Stolarz, and even an ancient Ryan Miller outperformed him at various points during the past 6 seasons behind that exact same defense. Then I'm reading things like he stops trying when he sees it's a lost cause, that sounds an awful lot like he quit on his teammates; to which my thought is why do we want a quitter on our team? If we are down 3 games to nothing in the Stanley Cup Final like last season, is he going to be like this is too hard I'm not going to try anymore?

You want us to pay a 1st round pick and a prospect for that!? A guy we can't even count on to show up and nah bro, trust me, he'll be better on a good team isn't a convincing enough argument to pay that kind of heavy price.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I'm going to provide a rebuttal to the comment I know is coming, well if you don't want to pay our price we'll just keep him. That's fine by me, the Oilers have come very close to winning a Cup with below average goaltending, I'm fine with acquiring Talbot instead, he doesn't have the high end of Gibson, but he's a quality human being with no diva tendencies, who quietly provides consistent above average goaltending and we know fits with our culture, plus he'll likely cost half as much to acquire.

Now I'm going to offer a piece of free unsolicited advice, winning teams start with Winning Culture.

Sure high end talent is necessary to truly excel and get to the point where you can contend for Cups, but all the talent in the world will fail if the culture and habits aren't where they need to be.

Step 1 of building a winning culture is get rid of anyone who doesn't want to be there and all divas who put themselves above the team, especially anyone who quits on their teammates or gives half hearted efforts or who shirks accountability. To not do this is to let rot fester in your organization.

That isn't to say winning teams don't have room for divas, but you can only bring them in when you have a strong tight knit leadership group with an established winning culture and a firm concept on what it means and what is required to play your particular brand of hockey. As an Oiler fan I'm well aware of what it is like to have tons of talented young players, but never feel like you are taking that next step and while your players will flash their talent, put up points they will inevitably not come close to living up to their full potential if the culture isn't in the right place and the players don't hold each other accountable.

I will say I loved Taylor Hall as a player and the Larsson Hall trade was brutal value, but while Hall did want to remain an Oiler he had diva tendencies and didn't handle being held accountable well, you need to cut all players like that from your team especially when you have a young core. It doesn't matter that you don't get the proper value of what you think they are worth, what you gain from the next generation of players being developed properly is worth taking that initial value hit and I honestly didn't see it or internalize that for probably 7-8 years after the trade, but it's clear as day now being on the other side of things.

 

[emptynetter3]

Right from the outset I disagree with the assessment of he's a higher end goalie, which is very much why I thought your list and trade expectations were outlandish. Also as an aside most of those trades didn't exactly work out very well for the acquiring team, which compounds my thought that its probably not a good idea to pay that much.

I will fully conceed Gibson has high end talent, but not high end results, in 5 of the last 6 seasons he has provided below league average goaltending results. I've also read all the excuses of our D is shit, but I see Dostal, Stolarz, and even an ancient Ryan Miller outperformed him at various points during the past 6 seasons behind that exact same defense. Then I'm reading things like he stops trying when he sees it's a lost cause, that sounds an awful lot like he quit on his teammates; to which my thought is why do we want a quitter on our team? If we are down 3 games to nothing in the Stanley Cup Final like last season, is he going to be like this is too hard I'm not going to try anymore?

You want us to pay a 1st round pick and a prospect for that!? A guy we can't even count on to show up and nah bro, trust me, he'll be better on a good team isn't a convincing enough argument to pay that kind of heavy price.

 

[Mr Positive]

With how the threads going it would be funny if he went to Carolina

 

[emptynetter3]

if im a GM, my response would be good luck in the PO's.....i would fully understand anyone's feeling's in regards to gibson, but there is nothing anyone could say about gibson other then "we think" in regards to him playing for a better team......no trade is 100% you will get what you think, it is always a gamble.... i think the ducks are perfectly fine keeping him especially if this team can turn the corner, but the oilers need to ask the question, "are we 100% confident with our goalies going into the PO's?".....and you guys might be, i dont pay that much attention TBH, but if not (and it could be some other player), they need to be doing everything possible.

 

[Three On Zero]

Right from the outset I disagree with the assessment of he's a higher end goalie, which is very much why I thought your list and trade expectations were outlandish. Also as an aside most of those trades didn't exactly work out very well for the acquiring team, which compounds my thought that its probably not a good idea to pay that much.

I will fully conceed Gibson has high end talent, but not high end results, in 5 of the last 6 seasons he has provided below league average goaltending results. I've also read all the excuses of our D is shit, but I see Dostal, Stolarz, and even an ancient Ryan Miller outperformed him at various points during the past 6 seasons behind that exact same defense. Then I'm reading things like he stops trying when he sees it's a lost cause, that sounds an awful lot like he quit on his teammates; to which my thought is why do we want a quitter on our team? If we are down 3 games to nothing in the Stanley Cup Final like last season, is he going to be like this is too hard I'm not going to try anymore?

You want us to pay a 1st round pick and a prospect for that!? A guy we can't even count on to show up and nah bro, trust me, he'll be better on a good team isn't a convincing enough argument to pay that kind of heavy price.

So no data to refute the list of goalie trades and the returns they’ve gotten. Got it.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Like I said.... pipe dream. None of those poor trade chips would induce Anaheim to trade Gibson. Edmonton has very poor trade capital to work with when it comes to trading for a legit #1 goalie who, with his current .915 Sv%, could make a huge differnce in the playoffs.... an Edmonton wet dream btw.
Gibson is way more likely to go to Carolina this season, or anywhere else for that matter, than Edmonton.

I'm torn. Should I trust Elliot Friedman or a random poster on HFBoards who still has a profile pic of Gerard Butler from a movie I walked out on...and 18 years after he was last relevant?

I'm honestly not sure Edmonton has much that Anaheim really wants. There's not much incentive for them to take Stuart Skinner, and we're not drowning in picks and prospects.

I could swear you were like the biggest Stuart Skinner defender on this entire board at one point. Now you're saying he's not even appealing as a backup on a non-playoff team that's struggles to make the cap floor? Ouch. I don't disagree with you on that point, but ouch.

I do agree that Dustin Schwartz is a bigger problem to this team than Skinner though. The hope is that whoever comes in can play well before Schwartz ruins them...or better yet, just has their own coach.

 

[Rubi]

I'm torn. Should I trust Elliot Friedman or a random poster on HFBoards who still has a profile pic of Gerard Butler from a movie I walked out on...and 18 years after he was last relevant?



I could swear you were like the biggest Stuart Skinner defender on this entire board at one point. Now you're saying he's not even appealing as a backup on a non-playoff team that's struggles to make the cap floor? Ouch. I don't disagree with you about that point, but ouch.

I do agree that Dustin Schwartz is a bigger problem to this team than Skinner though. The hope is that whoever comes in can play well before Schwartz ruins them...or better yet, just has their own coach.

Trust Friedman. Now I haven't listened to Friedman's statement but according to the thread title Gibson is interested in (playing for) Edmonton and I'm sure he is..... But.... is Anaheim interested in trading Gibson to Edmonton? Probably not as I doubt Edmonton will offer anything the Ducks want. Let's admit it. Edmonton has one of the worst prospects pool in the league.

 

[JKG33]

I've said for a while now, someone's opinion on Gibson is a great litmus test for what their opinion on goaltending in general is worth. And oh boy are these Oiler fans who'd rather have Skinner delivering on that

 

[MessierThanThou]

Trust Friedman. Now I haven't listened to Friedman's statement but according to the thread title Gibson is interested in (playing for) Edmonton and I'm sure he is..... But.... is Anaheim interested in trading Gibson to Edmonton? Probably not as I doubt Edmonton will offer anything the Ducks want. Let's admit it. Edmonton has one of the worst prospects pool in the league.

We have Matthew Savoie and...um...well...Beau Akey played some games for Team Canada, and Paul Fischer got some minutes in for Team USA at the World Juniors.

Basically we'll have to offer our 2026 1st? possibly Adam Henrique if you'll take him back. Possibly our 2024 1st in Sam O'Riley who the previous regime traded up to bring in.

I've said for a while now, someone's opinion on Gibson is a great litmus test for what their opinion on goaltending in general is worth. And oh boy are these Oiler fans who'd rather have Skinner delivering on that

To be fair, the number of Skinner defenders seems to be rapidly diminishing, it took way too f***ing long if you ask me, but the Edmonton sports media is only now discussing the possibility of upgrading on a guy who has had an .870 or worse in 35% of his games this season...

 

[MessierThanThou]

I'm going to provide a rebuttal to the comment I know is coming, well if you don't want to pay our price we'll just keep him. That's fine by me, the Oilers have come very close to winning a Cup with below average goaltending, I'm fine with acquiring Talbot instead, he doesn't have the high end of Gibson, but he's a quality human being with no diva tendencies, who quietly provides consistent above average goaltending and we know fits with our culture, plus he'll likely cost half as much to acquire.

Now I'm going to offer a piece of free unsolicited advice, winning teams start with Winning Culture.

Sure high end talent is necessary to truly excel and get to the point where you can contend for Cups, but all the talent in the world will fail if the culture and habits aren't where they need to be.

Step 1 of building a winning culture is get rid of anyone who doesn't want to be there and all divas who put themselves above the team, especially anyone who quits on their teammates or gives half hearted efforts or who shirks accountability. To not do this is to let rot fester in your organization.

That isn't to say winning teams don't have room for divas, but you can only bring them in when you have a strong tight knit leadership group with an established winning culture and a firm concept on what it means and what is required to play your particular brand of hockey. As an Oiler fan I'm well aware of what it is like to have tons of talented young players, but never feel like you are taking that next step and while your players will flash their talent, put up points they will inevitably not come close to living up to their full potential if the culture isn't in the right place and the players don't hold each other accountable.

I will say I loved Taylor Hall as a player and the Larsson Hall trade was brutal value, but while Hall did want to remain an Oiler he had diva tendencies and didn't handle being held accountable well, you need to cut all players like that from your team especially when you have a young core. It doesn't matter that you don't get the proper value of what you think they are worth, what you gain from the next generation of players being developed properly is worth taking that initial value hit and I honestly didn't see it or internalize that for probably 7-8 years after the trade, but it's clear as day now being on the other side of things.

Talbot is better than no move, but might be just as inconsistent as Stu. Talbot has 12 Games with a save percentage under .870 in 31 games, so that means in 39% of his games he has a save percentage under .870, which is worse than 35% of Stu's games being under .870. The only asterix is that, much like all the other available goalies, he's playing behind a much worse defense in Detroit. Talbot has also had 4 games under .800 (Stu has 5), so he's prone to collapses as well and even had a Stu-like implosion in his last game. Gibson and Vejmelka look like steadier options.

However, Talbot is 16th in GSAx per 60 (minimum 20 games), and actually right behind Vejmelka and ahead of teammate Lyon. Skinner is 35th in GSAx per 60 (minimum 20 games) and has only played in six more games.

Here's how Talbot fares against some top teams:

vs FLO (.953 - 41 saves)
vs LAK (.920 & .925)

BUT...

vs TOR (.762...which is worse than either of Stu's games against Toronto)

That said, if there is no other deal on the table, go for it. Better to add Talbot for cheap than stay the course. But he would be my distant fourth choice based on who I assume is available...

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Right from the outset I disagree with the assessment of he's a higher end goalie, which is very much why I thought your list and trade expectations were outlandish. Also as an aside most of those trades didn't exactly work out very well for the acquiring team, which compounds my thought that its probably not a good idea to pay that much.

I will fully conceed Gibson has high end talent, but not high end results, in 5 of the last 6 seasons he has provided below league average goaltending results. I've also read all the excuses of our D is shit, but I see Dostal, Stolarz, and even an ancient Ryan Miller outperformed him at various points during the past 6 seasons behind that exact same defense. Then I'm reading things like he stops trying when he sees it's a lost cause, that sounds an awful lot like he quit on his teammates; to which my thought is why do we want a quitter on our team? If we are down 3 games to nothing in the Stanley Cup Final like last season, is he going to be like this is too hard I'm not going to try anymore?

You want us to pay a 1st round pick and a prospect for that!? A guy we can't even count on to show up and nah bro, trust me, he'll be better on a good team isn't a convincing enough argument to pay that kind of heavy price.

The "Gibson was outperformed by his backups" argument has been shot down countless times, it's simply untrue outside of ONE of those seasons (last year). Stolarz and Miller did not "outperform" Gibson simply by having slightly higher stats - he had to play twice as often against tougher competition. Give them the same usage and watch the numbers change. Playing 25 games mostly against other bottom feeders is not the same as having to be the starting goalie for the worst defensive team in the cap era. Way cushier usage than Gibson has had, it makes for terrible comparison. Take 2021-22 for example. You are claiming Stolarz "outplayed Gibson" in a year where Stolarz played a career high of 28 games, had ten wins against other non playoff clubs and a whopping two wins all season against teams who made playoffs. 25% of his wins were against San Jose.

Honestly I think a lot of you fail to put Gibson's numbers into proper context. He has been the starting goalie for some of the worst teams in the modern era, and still put up better numbers than what you are getting from Skinner behind your strong club. The list of goalies who could have stood in for 50+ games behind those teams and managed a .900 SV% is actually quite short, A lot of goalies don't have the durability or consistency to play that much behind even a good club, let alone getting shelled every night. We aren't talking about a regular bad team, they were historically bad defensively with almost zero counter attack. A .900 sv% was an accomplishment for a starter behind those teams.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Time for opposing fans to just admit they were wrong about Gibson

Missed out on cups not getting him sooner

What were the fans wrong about?