Player Discussion Gerard Gallant

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Levitate

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I understand and believe the numbers but it doesn't feel that way while watching. They still pass up on shots, whether on PP or ES.
To be fair I think a lot of "passing up shots" is us not being able to see the shooting lanes that the players can see on the ice and a lot of "shoooooot the puck!" instances would just get blocked

What I see from PP1 lately is a lack of dynamic play with all the players working together to create openings. you want to get Zibanejad open for that one timer? you need to get everyone moving around and not let the other team just collapse into that slot

same thing for even strength offense too really. not much dynamic team working together play and a lot of stand around and watch the puck and then react to wherever a teammate slings it

I just wish I could remember a time, oh maybe almost 2 months ago, when this team was playing like that...hmm, must not have happened because if it did certainly the coaches would ahve figured out how to make that work again right?
 

leetch99

Leetch66 Joined 2007
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By "they" do you mean "him?"


I'm wondering the same.
That would be the coaching duo from PEI .....Turk Gallant and Mike Kelly .

My friend that informed me on this did not mention any player names . Just the staff member name and his parent . There was included in the message from my friend [which I left out earlier] .....a tidbit on the cause of the room divide being because of "personal agendas and team play".......But , I am not sure if that was him surmising or the parent of the coaching staff person ........ and I did not ask him .

That is all I know....I hope they can figure the problem out .....and I think just about ALL of us know there is likely more than one problem . If I hear more I'll post it .
 
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Levitate

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Yes, locker room and coaches meetings with players are far more indicative of a coaches willingness to call out players, and we'll never know how much or little that happens. But I can guarantee if a subtle callout was made in the media, it's definitely been made behind closed doors too to no avail...or else players would lose all respect for the coach as a coward who can only call him out to media and not to face.

A coach subtly saying something via media in my opinion normally comes after previous private failed attempts. Much as a callout in fronnt of the entire team likely came after a private 1v1 callout in a meeting.

Whatever Gallant is doing in terms of this (if its anything at all) is clearly not enough and/or its not working in the slightest
I feel like he just wants to put it on the players leadership to get things going and this is a huge downside to those kind of coaches (saw it with AV as well) .

It's great when things are going well and you're not overcoaching but when there are issues you can't just step back and demand the players do the heavy lifting in sorting through it while you make lineup changes at random without talkign to the players about it
 

kinger8998

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I feel like he just wants to put it on the players leadership to get things going and this is a huge downside to those kind of coaches (saw it with AV as well) .

It's great when things are going well and you're not overcoaching but when there are issues you can't just step back and demand the players do the heavy lifting in sorting through it while you make lineup changes at random without talkign to the players about it
100%
 

kinger8998

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That would be the coaching duo from PEI .....Turk Gallant and Mike Kelly .

My friend that informed me on this did not mention any player names . Just the staff member name and his parent . There was included in the message from my friend [which I left out earlier] .....a tidbit on the cause of the room divide being because of "personal agendas and team play".......But , I am not sure if that was him surmising or the parent of the coaching staff person ........ and I did not ask him .

That is all I know....I hope they can figure the problem out .....and I think just about ALL of us know there is likely more than one problem . If I hear more I'll post it .
Thanks for this info. From Halifax NS here, good to see a fellow Atlantic Canadian on here, not too many of us from my experience.

Gallants hands off approach requires a very strong leadership core, which Trouba showed some qualities of that with his outburst in Chicago, but theres no enough resolve in the entire leadership group or team to make things work when things are going as poorly as they are and things begin to spiral. That paired with the curious lineup deicisons, lack of accountability for results, and poor SV% and SH% tanking games and losing points, will ultimately be his downfall.

Being a high-level hockey player myself, when a room is divided its hard to become undivided without a coaching change. Players see how they are being treated differently without reason, guys become frustrated and start talking, tension boils and guys start going at eachother and forming smaller subsets within a team. Its poisonous.

I would have to assume there is a set of guys internally frustrated with being held accountable when no one else is, and not getting their earned opportunities just because a guy is paid more than them. There is likely also another set, with possibly overlap, frustrated at the coaches for giving other guys chances over them because of salary or age and not merit. And additionally, I would not be surprised if lower down the lineup guys that provide on-ice and dressing room leadership (Goodrow and Lindgren) are frustrated with the leadership group and the coaching staff for lack of self-accountability and sacrifice and accountability in general.

While we are just posters on here, and we really can all talk the talk and its easy to when you're not Gallant or Drury or a player, often times perceptions of issues from outside the team actually are shared with frustrations internally, even if you;ll never hear that.
 

Levitate

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if there's an issue with Trouba being captain as well that could make issues worse if instead of coming together, the leadership on the team is at odds

well, whatever. They figure it out and succeed or they don't and they fail
 

Jim Ramsay

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Jul 1, 2003
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Well....I'm not vetted...but I was informed of this an hour ago . Believe what you want . I'm not going to mention any names[but I could ] !!! but it was told by one of our bench staff...it goes like this when this family member was asked the question.....Will so and so be home at Christmas .....and so and so's parent answered....." So and so told us apparently there is a bad divide in the room and the boys figure they will be fired by Christmas ....so yes....they likely will be home ".


So....in saying that.....the staff knows that they just can't fix it with a benching or two and now we do know that the room indeed has a problem . Season is lost fellows.....and that might be the best thing instead of trading away our prospects and youth to get Dolan playoff revenue......but it is the Rangers and we know what comes next.......
Thnks for info. Its been obvious that theres a divide in the room but frustrating that its confirmed
 

leetch99

Leetch66 Joined 2007
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Yes, locker room and coaches meetings with players are far more indicative of a coaches willingness to call out players, and we'll never know how much or little that happens. But I can guarantee if a subtle callout was made in the media, it's definitely been made behind closed doors too to no avail...or else players would lose all respect for the coach as a coward who can only call him out to media and not to face.

A coach subtly saying something via media in my opinion normally comes after previous private failed attempts. Much as a callout in fronnt of the entire team likely came after a private 1v1 callout in a meeting.

Whatever Gallant is doing in terms of this (if its anything at all) is clearly not enough and/or its not working in the slightest
Yes....but what if you call out Panarin via the media and he tanks even worse....he easily enough could which is probably the biggest fear for a coach hence the term COACH KILLER !!! When you think about it Panarin knows he is in control with his contract and has time on his side . It's all upside for him....he is getting paid no matter how it is sliced and diced and Gallant knows this as well and does not want to lose him altogether which for sure would result in a firing unless Drury can somehow actually get him traded which at this point is 100 % impossible .

I would say that the media drop a name option is likely the last move in this chess game for Gallant and that he likely already has spoken with Panarin on a couple of things that need changing if the team is to move forward . Anyways....just my opinion on it .
 

leetch99

Leetch66 Joined 2007
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Thanks for this info. From Halifax NS here, good to see a fellow Atlantic Canadian on here, not too many of us from my experience.

Gallants hands off approach requires a very strong leadership core, which Trouba showed some qualities of that with his outburst in Chicago, but theres no enough resolve in the entire leadership group or team to make things work when things are going as poorly as they are and things begin to spiral. That paired with the curious lineup deicisons, lack of accountability for results, and poor SV% and SH% tanking games and losing points, will ultimately be his downfall.

Being a high-level hockey player myself, when a room is divided its hard to become undivided without a coaching change. Players see how they are being treated differently without reason, guys become frustrated and start talking, tension boils and guys start going at eachother and forming smaller subsets within a team. Its poisonous.

I would have to assume there is a set of guys internally frustrated with being held accountable when no one else is, and not getting their earned opportunities just because a guy is paid more than them. There is likely also another set, with possibly overlap, frustrated at the coaches for giving other guys chances over them because of salary or age and not merit. And additionally, I would not be surprised if lower down the lineup guys that provide on-ice and dressing room leadership (Goodrow and Lindgren) are frustrated with the leadership group and the coaching staff for lack of self-accountability and sacrifice and accountability in general.

While we are just posters on here, and we really can all talk the talk and its easy to when you're not Gallant or Drury or a player, often times perceptions of issues from outside the team actually are shared with frustrations internally, even if you;ll never hear that.
Very well spoken . You likely have just about hit on every alliance . I have been saying it for a few seasons now that our leadership was really bad on the ice /bench . It would be great if they can iron this out....but I as well don't see it ending favorably for the Maritime trio....and maybe when all is said and done that is a good move for the Rangers . LOL it is no big deal for me if Gallant was fired.....I honestly just want us to be winning !!!
 

kinger8998

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Yes....but what if you call out Panarin via the media and he tanks even worse....he easily enough could which is probably the biggest fear for a coach hence the term COACH KILLER !!! When you think about it Panarin knows he is in control with his contract and has time on his side . It's all upside for him....he is getting paid no matter how it is sliced and diced and Gallant knows this as well and does not want to lose him altogether which for sure would result in a firing unless Drury can somehow actually get him traded which at this point is 100 % impossible .

I would say that the media drop a name option is likely the last move in this chess game for Gallant and that he likely already has spoken with Panarin on a couple of things that need changing if the team is to move forward . Anyways....just my opinion on it .
Your opinion is very right. That is undoubtedly the fear here.

But really, whatever Gallant has done hasn't worked so he's got to see the writing on the wall. This is a team that has lost to Anaheim, Chicago, Ottawa, San Jose, and Columbus. That should be 8 lost points (1 against OTT, 1 SJ) against 5 of the bottom 7 teams in the league. Those 8 points would vault us to 2nd in the metro and drastically change the outlook of 11-10-5 to 16-7-3. Its easy to say well what if, but these shouldn't be games we look back on as lost points.

If now isn't the time to pull the last resort card when is?

Very well spoken . You likely have just about hit on every alliance . I have been saying it for a few seasons now that our leadership was really bad on the ice /bench . It would be great if they can iron this out....but I as well don't see it ending favorably for the Maritime trio....and maybe when all is said and done that is a good move for the Rangers . LOL it is no big deal for me if Gallant was fired.....I honestly just want us to be winning !!!
I personally know Midge and was teammates with a family member of Gallant's.

Thought it would have been super cool for the Rangers to be able to win with 3 Maritimers on their coaching staff, and sorry to the fellas I'd much rather the Rangers win without them than not win at all LOL.

Still hope they can somehow turn this around with them...but thats looking more like a pipe dream or a faint light at the end of the tunnel as opposed to the likely outcome...
 
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kinger8998

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I think Trouba let us all know during the helmet throw that all was not right in Rangerland with his yelling at the bench .
We can all knock Troubas gameplay and contract, but my respect for him as a C shot way up after that.

Thats the type of give a f**k we need if theres any hope. It was the only encouraging sign in the last month.
 

Levitate

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I mean, maybe it'd cause a huge issue in the lockerroom, but if Panarin is running the show and won't listen to anyone then get the backing of your GM and bench him or demote him and tell him if he's not gonna play ball he's not gonna get playing time.

It's true that he has his guaranteed contract and can't be moved and all that but few players want to just be sat down and not played even if theyre still collecting a paycheck.

Panarin's their best offensive forward but if he's not going to play like it then he needs to beheld accountable as well
 
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Levitate

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I feel like Trouba's issue as captain is that his play has been uneven and the injury he's dealing with is undoubtedly part of that, but if you're the main guy to provide leadership and everyone is going "well why aren't you held accountable for your poor play and why aren't you out of the lineup to heal and instead playing hurt and playing poorly" it just undermines a lot of the message

if you already have a lot of respect earned then that's one thing, but a new captain and all dealing with it...partly why the coach needs to be in there as well IMO
 

kinger8998

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I mean, maybe it'd cause a huge issue in the lockerroom, but if Panarin is running the show and won't listen to anyone then get the backing of your GM and bench him or demote him and tell him if he's not gonna play ball he's not gonna get playing time.

It's true that he has his guaranteed contract and can't be moved and all that but few players want to just be sat down and not played even if theyre still collecting a paycheck.

Panarin's their best offensive forward but if he's not going to play like it then he needs to beheld accountable as well
Lets be honest, Panarin may be the most powerful person in the organization right now other than Dolan.

Theres literally nothing you can do to get rid of the guy. Now, I don't think the situation is THIS extreme as in hes a cancer in the lockerroom and hes destorying the team and we should be trying to rid ourselves of him by any means whatsoever.

I think its more of a group issue. Panarin obviously gets the brunt as he should for being visibly the most udnerperforming and highest paid, but I'd argue of the big 7, its only Fox whos perfromed to expectations.

Panarin, kreider, Zibaneajd, Trocheck, Trouba and Shesterkin have all been worse than expected and warranted if you ask me. for sake of this exercise I'll leave out Shesty because he's most liklely to right the ship and actually has a reasonable contract.

Trocheck and Kreider and Trouba have no suffered consequences being moved down in the lineup for anywehre from a 3rd period to 2-3 games. But temporary isn't enough when you have a large set of your stars underperforming while your younger players get frustrated that they face consequences and pay prices but get shorted their deserved extended opporuntities due to $$$ owed and age and status and not on merit. It deludes confidence in coaching and breeds unerlying contempt against your teammates even though its not their fault they don't face consequences even if it is their fault they'r underperforming
 

kinger8998

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I'd guess would go one of these ways if Drury fires Gallant mid season:

He's going to step onto the bench himself to see the locker room and bench stuff with his own eyes because he seems like a thorough guy who is going to want to get an inside look and make sure he's got the right group of 22 before hiring his next guy.

Hire Trotz.

Promote Knoblaunch for rest of season. And go from there.

If he fires Gallant and looks outside, I genuinely don't think its going to be for anyone but Trotz. And I'm not a proponent of this move in any way, I'm actually against Trotz for this team.
 
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GENESISPuck94

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Well....I'm not vetted...but I was informed of this an hour ago . Believe what you want . I'm not going to mention any names[but I could ] !!! but it was told by one of our bench staff...it goes like this when this family member was asked the question.....Will so and so be home at Christmas .....and so and so's parent answered....." So and so told us apparently there is a bad divide in the room and the boys figure they will be fired by Christmas ....so yes....they likely will be home ".


So....in saying that.....the staff knows that they just can't fix it with a benching or two and now we do know that the room indeed has a problem . Season is lost fellows.....and that might be the best thing instead of trading away our prospects and youth to get Dolan playoff revenue......but it is the Rangers and we know what comes next.......
Thanks for the info.

My guess is Trouba allies vs Zibanejad & Kreider allies. With neutrals trying not to get involved. And I have a pretty good guess who the Trouba allies are, and IMO they are more valuable to the future success of the team.
 
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Levitate

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I guess there's also the issue of trading Reaves...though that's definitely one where if a guy who is clearly too slow to play in the lineup on a game by game basis demands a trade for more playing time then it'd be foolish to do otherwise
 

LionsHeart

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I’m worried he’s going to go back to what didn’t work. He finally pushed the right buttons, but when he does he tends to go back to what wasn’t working.
 

Kords

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Sounds like just about everyone is reporting that Gallants seat is very hot atm. If the players didn't already know, they do now. If they mail it in the next few games, I think it will be pretty telling.
 

HockeyBasedNYC

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To be fair I think a lot of "passing up shots" is us not being able to see the shooting lanes that the players can see on the ice and a lot of "shoooooot the puck!" instances would just get blocked

What I see from PP1 lately is a lack of dynamic play with all the players working together to create openings. you want to get Zibanejad open for that one timer? you need to get everyone moving around and not let the other team just collapse into that slot

same thing for even strength offense too really. not much dynamic team working together play and a lot of stand around and watch the puck and then react to wherever a teammate slings it

I just wish I could remember a time, oh maybe almost 2 months ago, when this team was playing like that...hmm, must not have happened because if it did certainly the coaches would ahve figured out how to make that work again right?
On the PP what allows them to set up Mika for the one-timer (the successful ones are more cross ice than coming from the point as outlined by Vally) is the respect for Kreider in front.

When they are getting pucks to Kredier for deflections and goals, that is the key to opening up more lanes cross ice for one timers. If Mika gets hot then they start focusing on getting out to him, then you focus down low into the bumper with Trocheck and go back to Kreids.

But I agree, the zone movement and quick passing we saw earlier in the year kinda died and they became a predictable unit. It was almost like they were just going through the motions expecting the result instead of moving around to adapt to the killing unit, making small adjustments to create the high danger chance.

Also Panarin has been off. He's a driver in all scenario's and needs to buckle down and not be as predictable as hes been lately.
 
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