WC: General Talk '14 — Switzerland

[Crackster]

Not sure why Grossmann played forward, or why Déruns was scratched for both games. Hopefully no injury.

Déruns did play in the first Belarus-Game according to the game-sheet: http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/iihfgamesheet.html?gameid=2414345 and Ambühl did play the second game: http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/iihfgamesheet.html?gameid=2414346

According to the Stats-Page Monnet, Froideveaux, Walser and Rüfenacht/Ambühl play center-position and oh boy do they stink at face-off...

http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=427134&seasonid=12569

 

[stv11]

Déruns did play in the first Belarus-Game according to the game-sheet: http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/iihfgamesheet.html?gameid=2414345 and Ambühl did play the second game: http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/iihfgamesheet.html?gameid=2414346

According to the Stats-Page Monnet, Froideveaux, Walser and Rüfenacht/Ambühl play center-position and oh boy do they stink at face-off...

http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=427134&seasonid=12569

The game sheets on pointstreak.com list all 24 players for Thursday's game, and 23 for today's (Déruns is not listed). I know it's possible to dress more than 22 players for exibition games, but medias reported Vauclair and Déruns as scratched for Yesterday's game, and no Déruns nor Ambühl in today's lineup. Beside, they all have an empty statline, which suggests they didn't play.

 

[jonas2244]

And what about others ? Streit, Hiller, Andrighneto ? Nino ? Will they come if their respective teams are eliminated from PO-s?

It was said that all NHL-players agreed earlier on coming if they'd be out. I'm quite sure that Nino and Diaz would come over quite fast, I'm not sure on Hiller and Streit.

Don't know what the Habs plan with Andrighetto.

 

[Tritsche]

I don't think Streit would help...

 

[stv11]

I'd take Streit before Diaz, but either will do. The defense already looks good with Josi, Weber, Vauclair and Seger anyway, the best reinforcement would be Niederreiter.

Next week's games will be interesting, hopefully Brunner will play and we can get a good idea of what the offense will look like.

Regarding today's game, no mention of an injured player in the game report on the official website.

 

[torero]

I don't think Streit would help...

I think that he would definitely help !

He is easily among the 2 top defense we have ... Josi and him.
I am impressed how much stability in the defense, how good puck movements he brings. Not to speak about the PP. I am a big fan of Josi (my avatar), and Josi is more fun to watch, but i am not sure he brings more in defense than Josi.

Not to say that appart of him and Josi, i see no one else capable of dealing seriously and reliably with players like Hossa, Ovechkin or Sedin's bro's. (i'm a bit nasty not including Diaz or ... but Streit is in my view still the best we have).

Finally ... he can pass serious experience to the young players ... for all the NLA young players he can be a Mentor.

 

[jonas2244]

I don't get that Streit-hate either. It's strange that we always seem to underrate our best players.

 

[Richi]

I don't get that Streit-hate either. It's strange that we always seem to underrate our best players.

It´s dating back to the WC 2012, where Streit, Sbisa and Niederreiter all had a negative +/-. The swiss team was eliminated unusually early and the aforementioned got most of the blame. The media jumped the bandwagon and really threw those three players under the bus (an example: http://www.20min.ch/sport/dossier/timeout/story/14932506).If I remember correctly, it was the first time this flawed stat was ever even mentioned in regular swiss newspaper.
While Niederreiter had kind of a resurgence and was one of the heroes in 2013, Streit and especially Sbisa remained the ones to blame for 2012. So some of our self-named hockey experts still don´t want Streit on the team because he´s a minus player

 

[torero]

It´s dating back to the WC 2012, where Streit, Sbisa and Niederreiter all had a negative +/-. The swiss team was eliminated unusually early and the aforementioned got most of the blame. The media jumped the bandwagon and really threw those three players under the bus (an example: http://www.20min.ch/sport/dossier/timeout/story/14932506).If I remember correctly, it was the first time this flawed stat was ever even mentioned in regular swiss newspaper.
While Niederreiter had kind of a resurgence and was one of the heroes in 2013, Streit and especially Sbisa remained the ones to blame for 2012. So some of our self-named hockey experts still don´t want Streit on the team because he´s a minus player

Probably he isn't as flashy as Nino, Baertschi, Brunner ...(all forwards !) or Josi. Yet watching him play in Sochi and with the flyers ... I woke up on him again.

If we speak about plus and minus , some years ago, he had almost 0 in the +/- when being on the Islanders, with like 26minutes a game ... and the Islanders loosing almost everygame which allowed them to pick Tavares ! He almost would have deserved the Norris ... (actually he was undoubtly a top 10 defender in NHL)
he is 5th, scoring 44 pts in 82 games with the flyers this year.

and .... by the way ... he is the best paid Swiss player ! are NHL GMs so dumb ?

Streit has a history of being underrated ... in Montreal, with the Islanders, and by us, the Swiss, by the Flyers (fans) when he got inked. Should a good defenseman be invisible ?

Compare his impact to Brunner ? some flashy goals (datsukyan deck ...) ... remove these ones and he has very few game winning goals ! Switzerand has, in my view, 3 impact players : Nino, Josi ... and Streit. (and by circumstance we have the 3 that will be best paid in some years of have been best paid) add Baertschi in some years ....maybe. (of course i removed the goalies in this view)

 

[stv11]

It´s dating back to the WC 2012, where Streit, Sbisa and Niederreiter all had a negative +/-. The swiss team was eliminated unusually early and the aforementioned got most of the blame. The media jumped the bandwagon and really threw those three players under the bus (an example: http://www.20min.ch/sport/dossier/timeout/story/14932506).If I remember correctly, it was the first time this flawed stat was ever even mentioned in regular swiss newspaper.
While Niederreiter had kind of a resurgence and was one of the heroes in 2013, Streit and especially Sbisa remained the ones to blame for 2012. So some of our self-named hockey experts still don´t want Streit on the team because he´s a minus player

It was Switzerland's worst tournament since 2002, and apart from the Romy-Brunner-Moser line, no one on the team had a convincing tournament. That's the perfect setup for Zaugg to spill out one of his usual idiotic piece of opinion, and if some fans are influenced by him, too bad for them, but I'm sure Simpson doesn't need to read 20min.ch to form his opinion on anyone.

Streit has years of good play in the NLA, in the NHL and more importantly, on the national team to back up his spot on the team.

 

[Tritsche]

Ok, I see I have to explain my point of view.

I would take Streit in a heartbeat if he would be with the team from the start on. But when we already play some games I am not sure I tould benefit the team. He is still our second best player overall, so it would be wrong to ignore a player like him. But his focus is to win the stanley cup and if the flyers lose round one, then we can analyse the new situation. If they lose 0:4 he can join the group maybe 4-5 days before the tournamenet and everything is ok. By the way in 2012 he was bad, but it was not only his fault. You shouldn't play him 30 Minutes anymore. And I am also not sure D. Brunner is good for the team. He was really bad at the olympics.

Anyway, I am with some other things also not satisfied, but everyone has their own opinion. That's ok!

 

[jonas2244]

Yeah, I know the story, but it wasn't true then and it's still not true.

Streit is a top-4 NHL-defender and we just have two of them. And there are reasons why he is one. He's just better than all the others who play in the NLA.

 

[stv11]

Ok, I see I have to explain my point of view.

I would take Streit in a heartbeat if he would be with the team from the start on. But when we already play some games I am not sure I tould benefit the team. He is still our second best player overall, so it would be wrong to ignore a player like him. But his focus is to win the stanley cup and if the flyers lose round one, then we can analyse the new situation. If they lose 0:4 he can join the group maybe 4-5 days before the tournamenet and everything is ok. By the way in 2012 he was bad, but it was not only his fault. You shouldn't play him 30 Minutes anymore. And I am also not sure D. Brunner is good for the team. He was really bad at the olympics.

Anyway, I am with some other things also not satisfied, but everyone has their own opinion. That's ok!

When you put it this way, it's an opinion I can agree with. The first round of the NHL playoffs finishes way before the tournament starts, and Streit knows the team well enough to join it without playing in many exibition games, so even if the Flyers lose in 7 games there's no problem in picking him. On the other hand, I'm not sure about adding players once the tournament is underway.

Of course it depends on how the team is performing. If Switzerland starts the tournament poorly, trying to change something
may not be a bad idea.

 

[Richi]

If we speak about plus and minus , some years ago, he had almost 0 in the +/- when being on the Islanders, with like 26minutes a game ... and the Islanders loosing almost everygame which allowed them to pick Tavares ! He almost would have deserved the Norris ... (actually he was undoubtly a top 10 defender in NHL)
Streit has a history of being underrated ... in Montreal, with the Islanders, and by us, the Swiss, by the Flyers (fans) when he got inked. Should a good defenseman be invisible ?

I remember the Norris discussion (http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/hockey/Mark-Streits-Triumph-in-der-Niederlage/story/24511724). Some good stuff right there, although I agree that at the time he came close to the top-10 defenders or probably even was part of this elite group.

I don´t think that he was underrated in NY, they tried to sign him to a very good retirement contract. Even in Montreal they tried to sign him to a good contract but he wasn´t granted top-minutes there so he decided to test free agency.
In Philly they weren´t so happy with the signing when it happened, although they´ve come around hard. He scores on a regular basis even though he isn´t on the first PP unit, makes good breakout passes and he´s worked on his defensive flaws. Right now the fans probably see him as a good #2-3 defenseman and as a #1 PP quarterback. And that is his level, which is definitively enough to help the swiss team in any(!) situation.

 

[chokei]

Streit seems to be in good form right now. If there was ever a time to decline him it's surely not now. But the impression I've gotten from Streit in the last few years is that it's more a matter of him (not) wanting to come anyway. Maybe he had his reasons, maybe he just forgot that his fans at home somewhat care about this tournament.

 

[stv11]

Streit seems to be in good form right now. If there was ever a time to decline him it's surely not now. But the impression I've gotten from Streit in the last few years is that it's more a matter of him (not) wanting to come anyway. Maybe he had his reasons, maybe he just forgot that his fans at home somewhat care about this tournament.

That's not fair to Streit, he only declined last year because of his contract situation. In 2008 he was still in the playoffs and in 2011 the Islanders didn't let him go.

 

[jonas2244]

Andrighetto got called up by the Habs. So no IHWC for him.

 

[stv11]

Josi, Brunner and Mayer join the team as announced, as well as Hollenstein, Romy and Simek from Geneva. Guerra, Berger, Déruns, Martschini and Walser cut. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with Stephan and Simpson just wants to compare the three current goalies.

 

[Richi]

Josi, Brunner and Mayer join the team as announced, as well as Hollenstein, Romy and Simek from Geneva. Guerra, Berger, Déruns, Martschini and Walser cut. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with Stephan and Simpson just wants to compare the three current goalies.

Bezina also got snubbed. Hopefully this is definitive.
As for Stephan, this news is very surprising. Since it apparently isn´t injury-related, my best guess is that he either chose to prepare for next season (moving from geneva to zug) or that Simpson told him that he won´t be the #1

 

[stv11]

I think there's a chance he'll join the team next week. Maybe Simpson thought it was better to give him some rest.

 

[jonas2244]

Stephan and Bezina declined because of injuries, according to 20min. Stephan said he took painkillers since christmas and didn't want to do it another 5 weeks.

 

[stv11]

Ouch, that's a tough loss. There's a huge dropoff in goalie quality after Gerber and Stephan, and both Berra and Hiller look on their way to the 2nd round.

 

[Richi]

Ouch, that's a tough loss. There's a huge dropoff in goalie quality after Gerber and Stephan, and both Berra and Hiller look on their way to the 2nd round.

There is one guy who arguably played better than Stephan in the ZSC - Geneva series and then went on to clearly outplay Gerber in the Finals. I think we´re more than fine on this position!

 

[stv11]

There is one guy who arguably played better than Stephan in the ZSC - Geneva series and then went on to clearly outplay Gerber in the Finals. I think we´re more than fine on this position!

I don't agree that Flüeler outplayed Gerber in the final, ZSC was simply a better team top to bottom, but it's a uselss comparison anyway. Current form is the last factor to use when picking players for the national team. The way Gerber played for Switzerland last year (and many times before that) gives him a huge headstart over any of the unproven goalies.

 

[Richi]

I don't agree that Flüeler outplayed Gerber in the final, ZSC was simply a better team top to bottom, but it's a uselss comparison anyway. Current form is the last factor to use when picking players for the national team. The way Gerber played for Switzerland last year (and many times before that) gives him a huge headstart over any of the unproven goalies.

Ok, I have to say that I disagree with every aspect of your post.

1. Current form is a very important factor when picking a goalie. It´s not everything, but still very important

2. Gerber was Kloten´s best player in the final, no notable mistake and he kept his team in almost every game. Flüeler just did a little bit more. Yet they were both playing on an extraordinary level, so either goalie is in a very good shape.

3. While experience is one of the key factors in chosing a goalie, there is room for other arguments. It just does not make any sense at all to argue that other goalies lack the experience if you don´t give them an opportunity. Flüeler has won the Swiss championship twice and nobody dare say that the Lions won the title despite him. Both times he had an SV% of about 94! Genoni also has already won a title but since then he´s regressed a little bit.
Another thing is that Gerber is now 40 years old and it´s time to pass the torch. The ZSC Lions did it in 2012 and the young gun, i.e. Flüeler, lead his team to the title. While this scenario isn´t certain to repeat itself, I would strongly recommend to go with Flüeler as 1A and Gerber as 1B!