WC: General Talk '14 — Russia

[habsrule4eva3089]

Yeah, Datsyuk, Tarasenko and Varlamov are now chained to the trees in Siberia and tortured.

Voynov, Markov and Emelin are on there way too.

I sure hope they don't commit further damage Datsyuk's knee, Tarasenko's thumb and Varlamov's brain, otherwise there might be some issues.

And doubt that because we're looking at a La - Montreal final

But in all honesty, it's incredibly impressive that these players say yes after the abuse and carnage of an NHL season and then the war of the playoffs, then adding along the mental fatigue. Kudos to them, but I'm sure there's additional motivation, or pressure on them to play from someone or whatnot especially in an Olympic year.

 

[Yakushev72]

Is it man up, or honest question, are these players punished for saying no whether it's federation, political and are they heavily compensated for playing and securing victory...I mean let's be honest, for the next 2 years at least if Russia doesn't win this tourney it's a shocker as they are the only ones that really sends Olympians to this tourney to which only one or two teams can really contend against.

Obviously, you have a wealth of in-depth knowledge of what REALLY goes on in Russia. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[Atas2000]

Is it man up, or honest question, are these players punished for saying no whether it's federation, political and are they heavily compensated for playing and securing victory...I mean let's be honest, for the next 2 years at least if Russia doesn't win this tourney it's a shocker as they are the only ones that really sends Olympians to this tourney to which only one or two teams can really contend against.

Honest question: what century do we have?

 

[Canuck21t]

Honest question: what century do we have?

We'll, we're talking about Russia after all. You know how the West sees Putin's Russia, you shouldn't be surprised to read these questions.

 

[SimplySensational]

We'll, we're talking about Russia after all. You know how the West sees Putin's Russia, you shouldn't be surprised to read these questions.

Yep. No chance Russians love the game.

 

[Namejs]

Yep. No chance Russians love the game.

When someone says that "all they're thinking about is resting and taking a break" and then the next day they sign up for another hockey tournament on a different continent 10 time zones away, it does raise questions as to what exactly was the incentive there and what changed that person's mind.

 

[Jussi]

Well the fact that the Russian hockey fed is trying to punish Mozyakin for turning down an invite and failing to provide medical documents, with Tretyak suggesting he'd be suspended in KHL for the same number of games he missed internationally, then one can see that the players are under pressure to show up even if they are tired/banged up/unmotivated.

 

[alce*]

Well the fact that the Russian hockey fed is trying to punish Mozyakin for turning down an invite and failing to provide medical documents, with Tretyak suggesting he'd be suspended in KHL for the same number of games he missed internationally, then one can see that the players are under pressure to show up even if they are tired/banged up/unmotivated.

When did Malkin start to play in KHL? Malkin, Radulov, Kovalchuk and others had refused invites in the NT before and it never was a problem.

Tretyak is talking complete ********, of course. He's lost control over situation and acts more and more strange now.

 

[Jussi]

When did Malkin start to play in KHL? Malkin, Radulov, Kovalchuk and others had refused invites in the NT before and it never was a problem.

Tretyak is talking complete ********, of course. He's lost control over situation and acts more and more strange now.

Who said anything about Malkin playing in the KHL? Please stop shortening the strings and think for a while. All the players were actually injured and thus declined. However, ifa player declines due to fatigue and gets the kind of ****storm in Russian media/federation as Mozyakin got, no player wants to risk that. On a smaller scale, Finnish players are declining from the Worlds because they don't want to become the faces of media and public scrutiny or scapegoats if the team fails to medal. Increase that pressure to the one in Russia (see e.g. the kind of treatment Bilyaletdinov got post-game from the Russian media at the Olympics) and it's no wonder players don't want to face that.

 

[alce*]

Who said anything about Malkin playing in the KHL? Please stop shortening the strings and think for a while.

FHR and Tretyak have absolutely no power over Russian players that plays in NHL, so your Mozyakin example was complete nonsense. And you'd get that yourself if you'd "think for a while"

All the players were actually injured and thus declined.

No, I don't count injury cases. All players that I've named have declined invitations in NT in different years because of fatigue. No one makes a big deal of that. Except of some fans, of course.

However, ifa player declines due to fatigue and gets the kind of ****storm in Russian media/federation as Mozyakin got, no player wants to risk that.

Media, maybe. FHR, no. Mozyakin is first example of this crap and it's problem of Tretyak's mental state.

On a smaller scale, Finnish players are declining from the Worlds because they don't want to become the faces of media and public scrutiny or scapegoats if the team fails to medal. Increase that pressure to the one in Russia (see e.g. the kind of treatment Bilyaletdinov got post-game from the Russian media at the Olympics) and it's no wonder players don't want to face that.

I don't get it. You've said that Finnish players are declining invitations in NT because of media and public pressure and Russian players are accepting them because of same reason?



Actually I think that Russian players are accepting invites in NT, because of one simple reason - it's a very good way to end a disappointing season. Russia chances to win championship in recent years are roughly 50 percent, so why not? And Russian fans are just crazy about NT. Player who's shining in national team becomes a hero in the eyes of Russian public and media.

 

[LiveeviL]

Is it man up, or honest question, are these players punished for saying no whether it's federation, political and are they heavily compensated for playing and securing victory...I mean let's be honest, for the next 2 years at least if Russia doesn't win this tourney it's a shocker as they are the only ones that really sends Olympians to this tourney to which only one or two teams can really contend against.

From my perspective it has been a decline regarding the Swedish engagement of NHL-players for the WC, that is where I come from. From your perspective it is like it always has been, important players not caring about the WC. One could say that the Swedish NHL-players have adopted a Canadian way of thinking in this respect and I am not very excited about that.

 

[Caser]

Imho, there are different reasons why Malkin will play:

0. Some sentimental stuff about the love for the game and honour to play for Russia NT, which probably will be difficult to explain here
1. Willingness to end the season on a positive note after all the losses
2. Willingness to prove the fans that he really cares and still can be worthy for NT, despite his game at Sochi
3. Need to work together with a new coach - who knows when there will be another chance to do it; also possibility to play with NT guys, maybe even with Kulemin
4. NT got some problems at center position
5. Maybe fear of criticism is also there, not from hockey federation (since Tretyak has very good relationships with NHL-ers), but from fans, a lot of them are going with the good old "Those NHL superstars don't care for our Russia" song after Sochi

And if talking about his tiredness, he would have to play some more games if Penguins would've won the game 7 after all.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Is it man up, or honest question, are these players punished for saying no whether it's federation, political and are they heavily compensated for playing and securing victory...I mean let's be honest, for the next 2 years at least if Russia doesn't win this tourney it's a shocker as they are the only ones that really sends Olympians to this tourney to which only one or two teams can really contend against.

There is pressure to play.. one such player was Mozyakin who was named to the team, but didn't report, citing injury as a reason. The Russian Ice Hockey Federation (Tretiak) has been quoted as saying that any player named is obligated to report, undergo medical evaluation and only RHF doctor's can declare if a player is fit or not fit to play. Tretiak went on to say that Mozyakin's case will be determined later and there is a possibility of a league (KHL) suspension of 8-9 games for failing to report. I highly doubt though they'll carry through with any suspension.

They are compensated for victory, cash somewhere in the vicinity of 50 large plus a whole lot of bling bling and parades.

 

[Atas2000]

When did Malkin start to play in KHL? Malkin, Radulov, Kovalchuk and others had refused invites in the NT before and it never was a problem.

Tretyak is talking complete ********, of course. He's lost control over situation and acts more and more strange now.

this. and there is always the simplest "pressure" in the world. if you mess up your relationship with the NT coach, chances are he won't be selling his home to have you on the team in the future.

regardles of the senile Tretiak BS, I highly doubt Mozyakin will be anywhere near the NT as long as Znarok coaches it(and that may well be until the end of Mozyakin's playing career) and rightfully so. I would never give a second chance to a guy who acts like that. gimme even a 40y.o. Zaripov instead.

 

[Atas2000]

There is pressure to play.. one such player was Mozyakin who was named to the team, but didn't report, citing injury as a reason. The Russian Ice Hockey Federation (Tretiak) has been quoted as saying that any player named is obligated to report, undergo medical evaluation and only RHF doctor's can declare if a player is fit or not fit to play. Tretiak went on to say that Mozyakin's case will be determined later and there is a possibility of a league (KHL) suspension of 8-9 games for failing to report. I highly doubt though they'll carry through with any suspension.

They are compensated for victory, cash somewhere in the vicinity of 50 large plus a whole lot of bling bling and parades.

It's not correct to bring in the Mozyakin case. There is a whole bunch of players who declined the invitation, but did it right away how it should be made and gave their reasons(Koshechkin, Datsyuk, Tarasenko). Nobody expected them to report ot the FHR doctors. Mozyakin acted like a child there and while Tretiak overreacts there you can't take the case as a standard.

And compensation is really peanuts to the guys with the contracts they have.

 

[MrGeno101]

Who do u think Malkin will play with? Im thinking a Kulemin-Malkin-Zaripov line could work.

 

[1Gold Standard]

It's not correct to bring in the Mozyakin case. There is a whole bunch of players who declined the invitation, but did it right away how it should be made and gave their reasons(Koshechkin, Datsyuk, Tarasenko). Nobody expected them to report ot the FHR doctors. Mozyakin acted like a child there and while Tretiak overreacts there you can't take the case as a standard.

And compensation is really peanuts to the guys with the contracts they have.

All true, but Tretiak made the distinction further in interview that the other cited cases (Datsuk, Tarasenko) the FHR requested and were given medical documentation by team NHL doctors. The difference in Mozyakin's case is that he has no choice when called, but to report, and only FHR doctor's can give a medical exemption... if he had done that and the FHR found his injuries were not sufficient reason to keep him off the team...could he then say, well you know what, I'm tired and not in the mood for 3 weeks in Minsk? That I'm not so sure of... and Tretiak stated the rule..all players when called upon are obligated to report without exception.

again, true...50 grand is not significant amount in terms of their mega million $$ pro contracts..but it is a fair chunk of change for 3 weeks work.

but there is pressure on the players to show up, their is an inherit obligation to do so when available and there are rewards offered. I think it is fair to say that the rewards offered are more than what other Federations offer...

I think any veteran player who has played in multiple WHC or Olympics has the right to take a pass on invite to the NT without pressure from their Federation.

I certainly don't expect players like Crosby to be trekking over to these tournaments, nor should he.. I do however have issues with several younger players who feel like they've earned that right of refusal (Tyler Seguin) now, if Hockey Canada wanted to sanction him somehow...I wouldn't have an issue with that... too bad HC doesn't have that option. and I'm a Seguin fan BTW...

 

[Atas2000]

Who do u think Malkin will play with? Im thinking a Kulemin-Malkin-Zaripov line could work.

Sounds good, but who knows how Znarok sees it?

 

[Startseva]

Russian team having ride on a tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG84CGiw7Bk

 

[Atas2000]

All true, but Tretiak made the distinction further in interview that the other cited cases (Datsuk, Tarasenko) the FHR requested and were given medical documentation by team NHL doctors. The difference in Mozyakin's case is that he has no choice when called, but to report, and only FHR doctor's can give a medical exemption...

Well, then it should be true for Koshechkin, right? Obviously it's not.

again, true...50 grand is not significant amount in terms of their mega million $$ pro contracts..but it is a fair chunk of change for 3 weeks work.

I don't think any of the players gives it too much thought.

but there is pressure on the players to show up, their is an inherit obligation to do so when available and there are rewards offered. I think it is fair to say that the rewards offered are more than what other Federations offer...

The only real pressure is in my opinion the coach-player relationship and maybe the fans if the player cares that is. The reward is minimal considering the effort and the risk of injury and shortening on time with the family, which especially russian players don't have much of playing overseas. It hink we should face the simple fact that many of them really just do it because they want to play for their country.

I think any veteran player who has played in multiple WHC or Olympics has the right to take a pass on invite to the NT without pressure from their Federation.

I certainly don't expect players like Crosby to be trekking over to these tournaments, nor should he.. I do however have issues with several younger players who feel like they've earned that right of refusal (Tyler Seguin) now, if Hockey Canada wanted to sanction him somehow...I wouldn't have an issue with that... too bad HC doesn't have that option. and I'm a Seguin fan BTW...

I'd love to see Seguin in the tournament, but it's the difference in hockey culture. It's normal for NA playeers to refuse, it's not in Russia. It's not to point fingers and play the good/bad game, it's just how it is historically.

 

[Atas2000]

Russian team having ride on a tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG84CGiw7Bk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oMC-BwYbG0

That's even better, but you can tell Ovechkin should shoot the puck. Doesn't look any comfortable with a real weapon.

 

[Yakushev72]

Well the fact that the Russian hockey fed is trying to punish Mozyakin for turning down an invite and failing to provide medical documents, with Tretyak suggesting he'd be suspended in KHL for the same number of games he missed internationally, then one can see that the players are under pressure to show up even if they are tired/banged up/unmotivated.

By punishing him, are you saying that he won't be asked back to play for national teams in the future? If so, what's wrong with that? Its a player's choice to decline an invitation, and its the Federation's choice not to offer another invitation. It should be considered an honor to play for your national team, but a player has the right to decline that honor. But, IMO, players should not be allowed to decline a NT a second time, regardless of their stature.

Note: I missed the part about being suspended from the KHL. Of course, Tretyak has no business getting involved in KHL administration or retaliating against players in their place of employment. I'm only saying that the RHF has a right not to offer an invitation again.

 

[Peter25]

Finnish media claims that Malkin will play with Ovechkin

But in a Tretyak interview he said that the first line should stay intact. Hopefully Tretyak is correct and Znarok will NOT put Malkin with Ovechkin. They have zero chemistry.

 

[Yakushev72]

Well the fact that the Russian hockey fed is trying to punish Mozyakin for turning down an invite and failing to provide medical documents, with Tretyak suggesting he'd be suspended in KHL for the same number of games he missed internationally, then one can see that the players are under pressure to show up even if they are tired/banged up/unmotivated.

My question is what authority does Tretyak have to get Mozyakin suspended from the KHL? The FHR has no administrative oversight authority over the KHL to my knowledge. If Magnitka feels that Mozyakin should play, what could Tretyak do about it?

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Will Malkin play tonight or tuesday?

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw that he arrives in Minsk tomorrow so he will probably play on tuesday against Belarus.