WC: General Talk '14 — Finland (Part II)

[FiLe]

Is it Skoda Cup's group or play-off stage where it starts to matter? Since for Finland it's 2/3...

It's always good to remember that a spot in the QFs is not something we make just because we're one of the elite hockey countries. The group stage play is there to determine who makes it to the final round in the first place - and you need some good scoring to win the games to get there. There are no officials thinking, "oh, it's Finland and they're doing bad... well, we'll just fix the table to add them in".

I can't believe it, even after we made it to the quarters by the skin of our teeth, people are still spouting this "the real tournament starts at game eight, the games before don't matter" crap. Here's a newsflash: You actually have to win enough of those group stage games to make it in the first place. And for those living in the past, the second tier countries have got better - they're no longer the coasting cakewalks they used to be. Doubly so, if you really have trouble finding the net.

 

[Needles]

Yeah, good enough to be rushed up to the worst team in NHL and good enough to be demoted straight after their head coach was changed.

He was also good enough for the Olympics.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/nuorten_leijo...ista_varasijoilla_olevista_leijonista/7015076

 

[FiLe]

He was also good enough for the Olympics.

Also, this "player X not being good enough" argument feels truly mental when you consider the fact that some of those names that did make it were certainly not "ready", or should we say "good enough" either.

For example, Marttinen was mostly out of his depth over the tournament, and it was Lajunen's rookie mistake that ended up costing us the 2-2 equalizer in the GMG.

To have names like these in the squad and then defend the snubbing of a future career NHLer and best-on-best NT player because he's still too "raw" is truly something that requires special kind of logic. Not saying RR would necessarily have been better in his current stage of development, but I don't see how he could have been plenty worse either. And picking him would sure as heck have been more beneficial when we think about the future.

 

[WinTheRightGames]

Have you noticed this pattern?
1994: Bronze in the Olympics
1995: WHC gold
1997: WHC tournament in Finland
1998: U20 Gold
1998: Bronze in the Olympics
1998: WHC silver

2010: Bronze in the Olympics
2011: WHC gold
2013: WHC tournament in Finland
2014: U20 Gold
2014: Bronze in the Olympics
2014: WHC silver

 

[Erikfromfin]

Have you noticed this pattern?
1994: Bronze in the Olympics
1995: WHC gold
1997: WHC tournament in Finland
1998: U20 Gold
1998: Bronze in the Olympics
1998: WHC silver

2010: Bronze in the Olympics
2011: WHC gold
2013: WHC tournament in Finland
2014: U20 Gold
2014: Bronze in the Olympics
2014: WHC silver

Nice pattern. Will have to wait a while for next cycle tho.

 

[QnebO]

Nice pattern. Will have to wait a while for next cycle tho.

I'm afraid it misses one part..


2006 silver in olympics
2006-2010-> Complete stoppage of first clas junior production
2010 bronze in olympics
2010-> New players produced again

This is next in line. I bet we have silver next Olympics.

What happens if we get gold though? Hell Freezes?

 

[FiLe]

What happens if we get gold though? Hell Freezes?

Juti's grill freezes over.

 

[behemolari]

Have you noticed this pattern?
1994: Bronze in the Olympics
1995: WHC gold
1997: WHC tournament in Finland
1998: U20 Gold
1998: Bronze in the Olympics
1998: WHC silver

2010: Bronze in the Olympics
2011: WHC gold
2013: WHC tournament in Finland
2014: U20 Gold
2014: Bronze in the Olympics
2014: WHC silver

interesting.

 

[Finnsane]

Have you noticed this pattern?
1994: Bronze in the Olympics
1995: WHC gold
1997: WHC tournament in Finland
1998: U20 Gold
1998: Bronze in the Olympics
1998: WHC silver

2010: Bronze in the Olympics
2011: WHC gold
2013: WHC tournament in Finland
2014: U20 Gold
2014: Bronze in the Olympics
2014: WHC silver

1998: U20 Gold against Russia, beat Sweden earlier in the tournament -> 2014: U20 Gold against Sweden, beat Russia earlier in the tournament
1998 Olympics: Beat Sweden in QF, loss against Russia in SF -> 2014: Beat Russia in QF, loss against Sweden in SF
1998 WHC: Loss against Sweden in Gold medal game (2nd loss against SWE in the tournament) -> 2014: Loss against Russia in Gold medal game (2nd loss against RUS in the tournament)

 

[Erikfromfin]

Year of the Erkka was good indeed and aftermath will be discussed long after but is also time to start looking ahead already. Lots of changes coming to the team and theres no other thread so got me thinking what the olympic/world cup team would look after the summer. Selänne, Timonen, (S.Koivu, S.Salo), Pitkänen and others are retired/injured/unknown. Given all the retirements and changes I put up my idea of best possible team Finland if World cup was played in autumn of 2014 in few months time.

Jussi Jokinen - Mikko Koivu'C' - Valtteri Filppula
Lauri Korpikoski - Aleksander Barkov - Mikael Granlund
Jori Lehterä - Petri Kontiola - Juhamatti Aaltonen
Leo Komarov - Olli Jokinen'A' - Tuomo Ruutu
Jarkko Immonen
Antti Pihlström

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Sami Lepistö - Juuso Hietanen
Rasmus Ristolainen - Jere Karalahti
Lasse Kukkonen'A' - Ossi Väänänen

Pekka Rinne
Tuukka Rask
Kari Lehtonen

Kari Jalonen

 

[mattihp]

I'd hope there'd be no reason to have Karalahti there.

 

[FiLe]

I'd hope there'd be no reason to have Karalahti there.

There wouldn't be.


Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Kari Lehtonen

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Sami Lepistö - Anssi Salmela
Lasse Kukkonen - Rasmus Ristolainen
Ossi Väänänen - Joonas Järvinen

Valtteri Filppula - Mikko Koivu - Tuomo Ruutu
Erik Haula - Mikael Granlund - Jussi Jokinen
Lauri Korpikoski - Petri Kontiola - Juhamatti Aaltonen
Leo Komarov - Aleksander Barkov - Sean Bergenheim
Jori Lehterä
Teemu Hartikainen

 

[rduck1]

There wouldn't be.

...

Pretty close to my thoughts. I'd have Barkov in a top-6 role, Granlund play wing, Haula as 4C and Lehterä playing over JMA. I'd also probably choose Hietanen over Salmela or Järvinen. Anyhow, no way Jere makes it if we have everyone available.

 

[mattihp]

Valtteri Filppula - Mikko Koivu - Tuomo Ruutu
Mikael Granlund - Aleksander Barkov - Jussi Jokinen
Jori Lehterä - Petri Kontiola - Juhamatti Aaltonen
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Lauri Korpikoski
Jarkko Immonen

That's how I'd have it on F. Sean doesn't want to play bottom six and that'd be where he'd fit...

 

[FiLe]

That's how I'd have it on F. Sean doesn't want to play bottom six and that'd be where he'd fit...

I can't disagree with yours, any less than rduck1's.

My idea was, however, that we'd actually have four more or less even lines. While the 4th is perhaps most suited towards traditional grinding, nobody's forbidding scoring from it, on the contrary.

Save for the first unit, all three bottom units of mine sort of have this "hard worker" - "playmaker" - "sniper" dynamic going within them. It's also far easier to generate an unified game plan in this case. The only difference in utility is which guys play PP and PK. It'd be entirely possible to switch Barkov and Haula in those occasions.

I'd also probably choose Hietanen over Salmela or Järvinen.

This I disagree with, since Hietanen needs PP time to be in the squad and I don't see any being available for him if we have Vatanen and RR in it (and this goes doubly so for Karalahti, who somehow should have to overtake Hietanen too). Yes, you need an extra in case one of the token top-4 is sidelined but he needs to be more of an utility guy - and that role here is reserved for Salmela.

 

[Johno]

The time when I don't have to look at Kukkonen on the National Team can't come soon enough.
Also it's time to look at the younger scorers next year. Pulkkinen, doing amazing in AHL, he should get a look at NT. I feel like Armia will have a break out season in North America. These are the guys we need. Pure scorers. Something we haven't got since Selänne.

 

[Erikfromfin]

The time when I don't have to look at Kukkonen on the National Team can't come soon enough.
Also it's time to look at the younger scorers next year. Pulkkinen, doing amazing in AHL, he should get a look at NT. I feel like Armia will have a break out season in North America. These are the guys we need. Pure scorers. Something we haven't got since Selänne.

Agree with snipers. Jussi Jokinen has been closest thing but his almost never been used. Passed over by Jukka in Vancouver and then used as versatility guy by Erkka in Sochi. Only time he was in sniper role for national team was the home world champs 2012 on line with Mikko and Valtteri and i thought he did well.

 

[teddy83]

Valtteri Filppula - Mikko Koivu - Tuomo Ruutu
Mikael Granlund - Aleksander Barkov - Jussi Jokinen
Jori Lehterä - Petri Kontiola - Juhamatti Aaltonen
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Lauri Korpikoski
Jarkko Immonen

That's how I'd have it on F. Sean doesn't want to play bottom six and that'd be where he'd fit...

The World Cup would be in a NHL size rink so i personally would throw both Aaltonen and Kontiola out.

 

[mattihp]

The World Cup would be in a NHL size rink so i personally would throw both Aaltonen and Kontiola out.

Who would you play in their spots? OJ and Bergie

 

[teddy83]

Who would you play in their spots? OJ and Bergie

Yes actually.

 

[Gaps]

The World Cup would be in a NHL size rink so i personally would throw both Aaltonen and Kontiola out.

Agreed. I think all players who have little to no NA experience and/or can be otherwise deemed unfitting for the smaller rink should have no business on this team. That includes Juuso Hietanen. I would rather take both Lepistö and Salmela to the World Cup than him.

I expect to see something like this as far as the forwards go:

Filppula-Koivu-Ruutu
Granlund-Barkov-JJ
Korpikoski-OJ-Bergenheim/Komarov
Bergenheim/Komarov-Haula-X

The X could be a Euro grinder like Pillu or Hartikainen.

Personally however I am hoping a right-handed sniper like Armia breaks out next season and earns a spot in the top 6 for the World Cup. I would also not play Granlund with Barkov because I think the latter goes to waste, especially on the PP.

So here's the 'improved' lineup:

Granlund-Koivu-Armia/JJ (interchangeable)
Filppula-Barkov-Armia/JJ
Korpikoski-OJ-Ruutu
Bergenheim-Haula-Komarov

As for D, I think we can unfortunately forget about Pitkänen being healthy enough to participate. So we're left with the youngsters, the Euro puckmovers and Kukkonen and Väänänen. The best we can hope for is for Pokka and RR to do well next season.

Vatanen, Määttä, Kukkonen, Väänänen, Ristolainen and X, who could be Pokka or Lepistö or another Euro dman. I'm not sure if the roster size for this tournament will even allow bringing along 8 D. I think they had 7 in the last World Cup.

 

[Periwinkle]

The time when I don't have to look at Kukkonen on the National Team can't come soon enough.

So I guess this was the lenght of the "learning to appreciate Kukkonen" period

 

[FiLe]

Vatanen, Määttä, Kukkonen, Väänänen, Ristolainen and X, who could be Pokka or Lepistö or another Euro dman. I'm not sure if the roster size for this tournament will even allow bringing along 8 D. I think they had 7 in the last World Cup.

It was eight, actually. Timonen, Salo, Numminen, Niinimaa, Berg, Lydman, Väänänen, Pitkänen.

It's actually rather easy to remember, as they originally announced only seven while other participants had eight on their rosters. That missing name was Karalahti, but the NHL wanted him nowhere near their tournament so they had to pick Niinimaa instead. Who then called it quits in the middle of the tournament when Mad Raato hurt his feelings.

They only dressed seven though. The 8th guy was Pitkänen who didn't play in a single game. Not even after Niinimaa quit.

 

[Gaps]

They only dressed seven though. The 8th guy was Pitkänen who didn't play in a single game. Not even after Niinimaa quit.

That must be where I got the number.

 

[Periwinkle]

So the Kari Jalonen era begins. Nice interview in today's Turun Sanomat, this quote in particular made me happy:

– Kauden aikana haluan tarkentaa pelaajaseurantaa entisestään. Maailmalla pelaa 120 suomalaista, emmekä voi unohtaa esimerkiksi Joonas Järvisen tapaisia AHL-pelaajia, Jalonen valottaa suunnitelmiaan.

(Jalonen says he wants to make the player scouting around the world better, specifically mentioning AHL players).

I assume he mentioned Järvinen in particular as he's a local guy.

link to Turun Sanomat web page