General OT Thread #31: Wild Wish Offense Was As Potent As Fel

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FVM

This does not please me.
Jan 26, 2010
4,311
280
Vantaa, Finland
I mostly agree. I think excessive drinking is way too socially acceptable in this country. However, I'm not sure if the limitations will help curb it. There has to be a bigger change in culture than what those limitations by the government can bring. Finns are stubborn people, if they feel their freedom's being limited by the government, they'll find a way to get around it.

Precisely. The root of the problem is the social acceptance of being totally hammered in public and behaving like an idiot. That's why it's pathetic and sad that they try to change it by making buying alcohol more complicated and annoying. No, that will just encourage binge drinking even more if anything. It just paints an aura of "forbidden fruit" around alcohol and that is a completely wrong direction to go.

Yeah, but I'd imagine that's what they're trying to do with those limitations, change the culture. If alcohol can be gotten from anywhere, then that messages that it's acceptable to drink anywhere, whenever. If you restrict it in some way, either by making it more expensive or make it harder to get, people start thinking "Ah, I can't be bothered to get drunk this weekend, it's too expensive / I'd have to run to the shop quickly after work and that's annoying with the traffic". Then when parents drink less, children don't get to see it as often, thus lessening it's role in the culture.

But yeah, there will always be alcoholics, even if you outlaw alcohol completely. It would just be better if people could learn to drink socially, instead of drinking to get drunk.

I very much disagree with this view. If alcohol is easy to get anywhere and anytime, it doesn't give a message that it's acceptable to drink until falling in the ditches. No, quite the opposite: if a bottle of beer or wine is cheap and can be bought easily while doing your other shopping, it makes it a normal, everyday thing. A small pleasure of life as it should be.

In Finland, we've had tight regulations and super high alcohol tax for a long time, but alcoholism and alcohol related problems have actually increased during the last 30 years. In Germany, they reduced those taxes and for example beer doesn't have any tax at all. You go to a Lidl in Germany and beer is cheaper than lemonade, literally. But how about alcohol consumption? It went down in that time period! In Southern Europe alcohol is also really cheap, especially wine. Cheap table wine is cheaper than most juices. Yet you don't see many drunks in public at all.

I just don't get how the conclusion Finnish bureaucrats and politicians make is: we have alcohol problem, we need more rules, regulations and even more expensive prices than now. It doesn't make any sense! Look at the damn facts and picture they paint! It only makes sense if you believe in some mystical race theory that Finns are pathologically unable to handle the drink, but I find it absurd and there is no evidence to support it. It is a social and cultural issue, and restricting the availability of products that should be a natural part of everyday culture is very counterproductive. Not to mention it really pisses me off for having to suffer the consequently absurd prices and difficulties to get my craft beer because of those bumbling idiots we have in power.
 

W75

Wegistewed Usew
Oct 22, 2011
8,765
380
Winland
Alcohol taxation is simpy mathematics. Taxes can't be too high because of Estonia and cheap liquor. But can't be too low either, because they must get money for public healthcare to handle alcohol related issues.

If alcohol is too expensive, people won't buy it enough from Finland. Restaurants suffer, people lose their jobs etc.. Plus health problems will still be there. But without taxes it's gonna be a disaster. Simply, drinkers and smokers pay their own healthcare.

It's all about calculating the correct levels. Right now Estonia plays a big part in that equation.

Finns drink certain amount of booze. I don't know how to change that drastically. It's been tried, but there it is.
 

W75

Wegistewed Usew
Oct 22, 2011
8,765
380
Winland
Good luck and enjoy all you can!

PS. I threw up three hours before our wedding ceremony. I was so nervous.
 

FVM

This does not please me.
Jan 26, 2010
4,311
280
Vantaa, Finland
Alcohol taxation is simpy mathematics. Taxes can't be too high because of Estonia and cheap liquor. But can't be too low either, because they must get money for public healthcare to handle alcohol related issues.

If alcohol is too expensive, people won't buy it enough from Finland. Restaurants suffer, people lose their jobs etc.. Plus health problems will still be there. But without taxes it's gonna be a disaster. Simply, drinkers and smokers pay their own healthcare.

It's all about calculating the correct levels. Right now Estonia plays a big part in that equation.

Finns drink certain amount of booze. I don't know how to change that drastically. It's been tried, but there it is.

Yeah, in a way it's just an optimization practice. Thing is, other European countries also have comparable public healthcare systems but they seem to manage with really low alcohol taxes. It goes hand in hand with the problem use. I'd argue it's not really about the total consumption. We are not highest in total consumption, it's the way you consume (binge drinking) that is the problem. I think we need a culture shift and it begins with making alcohol cheap and easily available.

I'm thankful we have Estonia next door, it keeps our patronizing politicians in check.

Three hours...

Good luck man!
 

Fallenity

Registered User
Apr 12, 2011
1,200
0
Precisely. The root of the problem is the social acceptance of being totally hammered in public and behaving like an idiot. That's why it's pathetic and sad that they try to change it by making buying alcohol more complicated and annoying. No, that will just encourage binge drinking even more if anything. It just paints an aura of "forbidden fruit" around alcohol and that is a completely wrong direction to go.



I very much disagree with this view. If alcohol is easy to get anywhere and anytime, it doesn't give a message that it's acceptable to drink until falling in the ditches. No, quite the opposite: if a bottle of beer or wine is cheap and can be bought easily while doing your other shopping, it makes it a normal, everyday thing. A small pleasure of life as it should be.

In Finland, we've had tight regulations and super high alcohol tax for a long time, but alcoholism and alcohol related problems have actually increased during the last 30 years. In Germany, they reduced those taxes and for example beer doesn't have any tax at all. You go to a Lidl in Germany and beer is cheaper than lemonade, literally. But how about alcohol consumption? It went down in that time period! In Southern Europe alcohol is also really cheap, especially wine. Cheap table wine is cheaper than most juices. Yet you don't see many drunks in public at all.

I just don't get how the conclusion Finnish bureaucrats and politicians make is: we have alcohol problem, we need more rules, regulations and even more expensive prices than now. It doesn't make any sense! Look at the damn facts and picture they paint! It only makes sense if you believe in some mystical race theory that Finns are pathologically unable to handle the drink, but I find it absurd and there is no evidence to support it. It is a social and cultural issue, and restricting the availability of products that should be a natural part of everyday culture is very counterproductive. Not to mention it really pisses me off for having to suffer the consequently absurd prices and difficulties to get my craft beer because of those bumbling idiots we have in power.

The bolded part is the one that I have a problem with. It shouldn't be a part of everyday culture. Most people enjoy having a drink every now and then and that's okey, I drink after a sauna and take some glasses of wine on Friday evenings. But when it becomes acceptable to drink everyday, I'd say that's a step in the wrong direction. I admit there especially with youth the forbidden fruit argument might hold some value, but that'd only be true if alcholo was completely outlawed. Currently it is still pretty easy to get, thus lessening its mystique.

And apparently we've seen different statistics, I've in turn seen studies which support the measures taken to restrict alcohol usage and have come to the conclusion that they have lessened consumption. The latest report I've seen is that in the past 10 years there's been two different trends. One is that general consumption has lessened. But this is ofset by the face that apparently women have started drinking more, thus not allowing the general consumption levels to drop as much. Before women didn't drink as much as men, but when compared to 10 years ago men are drinking less now and women are drinking more. The current theory is that once the amount of alcohol consumed by women reaches the same level or close to as men, it'll too start dropping as the drinking culture changes.

Another change has been in what we drink. Before it was a lot more hard liquor, >22% stuff. Now we've moved on to lesser alcholic drinks. Beer consumption has increased, as has cider and long drinks. All in all, I feel like the current trend is good and that the restrictions work. Of course I'm quoting statistics without a source, so I could be talking from my arse, but I guess that's a risk on an internet forum.

Also, I've lived in a middle European country for 5 years and honestly, there were more drunks there then in Finland. Be that due to a smaller alcohol tax or something else, I don't know, but I don't think there's any proof that by lessening alcohol tax and taking away sales restrictions, you decrease consumption and improve the culture. Germany has the benefit that the culture there is more mild alcohol focused then in Finland. They drink beer instead of vodka. And that's a direction Finland is heading imo, which is good. And part of that culture change is created by the said restrictions and increase in alcohol tax.
 

Randy BoBandy

Cheeseburger Party
May 9, 2011
2,815
0
Sunnyvale
Should I go into work for overtime today or just relax and drink some beer? Tough decision. If the Wild were playing it would be a no brainer. The season needs to hurry up and get here.
 

Avder

The Very Weedcat
Jun 2, 2011
39,581
235
A place.
Should I go into work for overtime today or just relax and drink some beer? Tough decision. If the Wild were playing it would be a no brainer. The season needs to hurry up and get here.

If you've got nothing to do, might as well make some money as long as its not stressful.

A good friend and of mine is moving out of town today. I'm sad.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
Mourneau gets traded, Vikings cut down their roster, Wild release new jerseys, EVERYTHING HAPPENED YESTEREDAY!

Was a lot of fun though. Really glad we did it the way we did. Rather than get married in the afternoon and think about it all day, we had our ceremony at 9am, it was 15 minutes long including the music. Took pictures before and after. Then had a BBQ buffet lunch at a park with refreshments and music in the background. Got home late afternoon, cleaned up, and went out for dinner at Meritage and talked about everything ever. Like our entire lives up to that point, how the relationship began and grew, and the future. Went out for a cocktail at the St Paul Hotel, then back home. Asleep by 10pm. Awesome.
 

this providence

Chips in Bed Theorem
Oct 19, 2008
10,391
1
St. Paul
Sounds great. 'Grats Jarick. Now all the dumb planning and hectic nature of leading up to the wedding is over and you can enjoy life together. :thumbu:
 

W75

Wegistewed Usew
Oct 22, 2011
8,765
380
Winland
I still got a flu, not too bad though.

I'm sitting on a balcony, sun is shining, just ordered a Wild youth replica third jersey for my son. It takes a few weeks or so..

I feel a bit weak, but life's good.
 

GopherState

Repeat Offender...
Aug 8, 2008
22,886
69
X Marks The Spot
Spent yesterday helping my parent's 82 year-old next door neighbor pack up and move the last stuff of a house she lived in (and was the only homeowner) for 57 yrs. There wasn't much left after a estate sale. She's moving with one of her kids after her husband passed away a few years ago. It is more amazing how long they stayed there.

Would love to live in one place for that long and make my life. Still, it was a sad moment.
 

tyratoku

Registered User
May 28, 2010
7,712
56
MN
Oh god, I just saw that rapping K-Mart commercial.

Shut the **** up, K-Mart. That commercial is horrible.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
Congrats Jarick. Now you can open gifts with your parents. Lol

We had to do that today :laugh:

We got so much stuff and money. I feel terrible. But we're putting a bunch of it towards a down payment on a house. House shopping and saving starts now...

Also we have several pounds of leftover pulled pork, chicken, beans, cupcakes, and cookies. Luckily, my new in-laws got us a chest freezer for wedding present so lots of future leftovers...
 
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