Prospect Info: General Discussion of Prospects

[OkimLom]

So because Botts and company didn't take the guy you wanted, you don't have faith in the scouting department?

The 2017 and 2018 drafts didn't give you any confidence in them at all? Seriously?

not the poster you asked, but no, those drafts have instilled zero confidence in them so far. And I didn’t like the 2019 draft at all.

Outside Dahlin, UPL was probably our 2nd best pick between the two drafts. The way we are handling Mittelstadt’s development, I’m worried about his ceiling.

Bryson is a good player, but I’m curious how high his ceiling is. Davidsson has regressed considering how many professional games he’s played so far. Pekar is a fun prospect to watch that I cheer for but I don’t see the offensive ability to stay in a NHL lineup.

Samuelsson has never really impressed me compared to how other posters feel. Laaksonen I’d be shocked to see him make farther than mid pair AHL guy.

 

[sabremike]

To justify your point that Botterill is clueless and drafted the wrong guy/position and that wingers have more trade value than D-men, you use as an example a trade in which Botterill got rid of a semi-bust winger for a solid D-man with top-four potential, one for one...

...great argument...

No, my criticism in this case is about the drafting. I gave him all the credit in the world for both the Joker and Montour trades, so I feel am far more fair and objective than you are giving me credit for being.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

No, my criticism in this case is about the drafting. I gave him all the credit in the world for both the Joker and Montour trades, so I feel am far more fair and objective than you are giving me credit for being.

We can't even be sure about the 2017 draft quite yet, let alone anyone from the 2019 draft. So busting on the Johnson pick just isn't being fair or objective at all. I'll give an example. I wanted Zegras. I see him as being a dynamic play-making C with outstanding hands that could make him a #1C. I see Cozens as being a safer pick with middle-six potential a la Jordan Staal with maybe more scoring potential. Since neither is going to sniff the NHL this year and possibly next, or develop fully until 2022 or so, I would be a big idiot to be stomping my feet about it right now.

 

[Buffaloed]

There was a lot of swirl that Kaliyev was on the do-not-draft list for many.

Brings back warm memories. Maven's Memories: How Mike Bossy Fell To The Islanders
But Ric Seiling wasn't a bad pick.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Yes.

He was on a lot of team’s do not draft lists, according to media analysts.

 

[hizzoner]

He was on a lot of team’s do not draft lists, according to media analysts.

I can see why some teams would not have wanted to draft him at the top of the first round. But do not draft? The Bulldogs organization from Steve Staios down will not put up with shenanigans or laziness. The times I have seen him live did not lead me to think he was the type of player to ignore. He will go into the corner to fight for the puck, he has good size, a terrifically accurate shot with a quick release, is a great passer and has good vision. He finds the places to be to take a pass and looks to pass to his team mates. Over thirty goals as a 16 year old rookie in the OHL. Over 50 goals in his draft year. Tied for OHL scoring so far this year in his D+1 year. One weakness may be defensive ones but no more than many other offensive junior stars. The biggest negative is lack of a quick first step and average straight away speed-but many nhlers have overcome this with appropriate training and dedication.

 

[Matt Ress]

Not as much as I used to. I try to catch as many college games as possible when they are on TV. I haven't caught any Wisconsin games though I would like to (because of Caufield and Turcotte), so I can't really say much for this year. Last year, he was okay, but I remember questioning how much he can improve what I was seeing.

Pekar, I liked him the preseason because of his pest-like game. But his offensive game as a ways to go to be at the NHL level which would KEEP him at the NHL level.

There's a lot of hopefuls (because they are prospects afterall), but I'm not sure how many can go far. Of course, this is development so this can all change.

But where I don't have confidence in, is the HIGH END talented players (even if they are RAW), and the makeup of the players. Outside of Pekar, for our forward prospects, we are pretty soft. Outside Mittelstadt, I don't see any guys that have the high level skills as well. We traded away our only other forward that had that (Nylander) potential. I don't think Cozens has the ability to be a gamebreaker. I think he'll be a decent middle 6 player.

Fair enough. Weissbach had a pretty solid freshman year and with Caufield and Turcotte, has seen an uptick in pointzzz, not surprisingly. He's quick and skilled. This year there was an article about how he is being pushed to round out his game more (back checking, defense...). I think he'll be signed by next summer. He is getting a lot of assists, so one could argue he's riding coattails but I think last year shows he can be more than a passenger.

I think Pekar's full range of abilities is what will help him carve out a career. Bottom six, high energy guy that can pot one from time to time. Who knows what he'll be in two years but he could end up as a top 6 glue guy. I'd say that's his ceiling. I've been pleasantly surprised with his offense in juniors but he'll have to show more than that to stick on the top 2 lines.

Davidsson seems stagnant and almost redundant behind Asplund. Laaksonen has almost taken a step back, which you never want to see but, may need a change of scenery.

I tend to think a little more highly of Cozens. He was a pretty highly touted draftee and some even called the pick a steal. With that, he's off to a good start in his D+1. Sometimes I think he gets squashed some around here because of the strong anti-Cozens sentiment going into the draft. Either way, it's always a question of whether a kid's skill will translate from juniors. He does have a pretty strong bag of tangibles though.

It's not like the tank years when all we had was prospects to look forward to (thank god) and there were daily postings of guys games from the night before. We still have a decent pipeline but I, like many, would like to see more skill at the forward ranks. Sláinte!

 

[Der Jaeger]

I can see why some teams would not have wanted to draft him at the top of the first round. But do not draft? The Bulldogs organization from Steve Staios down will not put up with shenanigans or laziness. The times I have seen him live did not lead me to think he was the type of player to ignore. He will go into the corner to fight for the puck, he has good size, a terrifically accurate shot with a quick release, is a great passer and has good vision. He finds the places to be to take a pass and looks to pass to his team mates. Over thirty goals as a 16 year old rookie in the OHL. Over 50 goals in his draft year. Tied for OHL scoring so far this year in his D+1 year. One weakness may be defensive ones but no more than many other offensive junior stars. The biggest negative is lack of a quick first step and average straight away speed-but many nhlers have overcome this with appropriate training and dedication.

When I’ve watched him, I saw an elite goalie scorer with tremendous offensive skills. He’s also a poor skater, doesn’t work hard in the defensive zone, is weak along the boards, and floats.

He doesn’t fit in with a speed team trying to get every player to buy in and go hard. Poor man’s version of Vanek.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

It is optimistic to think both Samuelsson and Johnson pan out

Top 32 picks are expected to pan out. A late 1st and the first pick in the 2nd round are early picks. Johnson's draft value has gone up since June. Samuelssons has more or less stayed the same. But he has bloodlines going for him. Look around. Tkachuks, Hughes, Staals. Brothers throughout the league. Yes you have the family here and there that only has 1 quality player out of 2 or 3. But his dad played over 800 games in the NHL. On his own merit he was the #32 pick and was projected by a majority of analysts to go earlier.

We expect guys like Asplund to pan out when Samuelsson was drafted even earlier. I expect a 1st rounder and a high 2nd rounder to at least be NHL regulars. When I project them as top 4 dmen in the future they are the 3 and 4. They are the dmen that McCabe was projected to be. McCabe was also drafted near them and was a similar level prospect. McCabe at least has panned out to be a #4/5 type. I just trust Botts drafting and think that Johnson and Samuelsson will end up as long term contributors for this teams blueline.

We already have two high end young LHD and RHD. They may not play with each other but in the future they are our top 2 dmen (RD and Joki). RJ and MS can partner with them and form a solid top 4 corps. They are all 18-20 age group. Hell, we should all be hoping they reach their potential and more, having 4 legit top 4 dmen all within 2 years of each other would be akin to having a Nashville level defense in the mid/late 00s.

 

[Snippit]

Top 32 picks are expected to pan out. A late 1st and the first pick in the 2nd round are early picks. Johnson's draft value has gone up since June. Samuelssons has more or less stayed the same. But he has bloodlines going for him. Look around. Tkachuks, Hughes, Staals. Brothers throughout the league. Yes you have the family here and there that only has 1 quality player out of 2 or 3. But his dad played over 800 games in the NHL. On his own merit he was the #32 pick and was projected by a majority of analysts to go earlier.

We expect guys like Asplund to pan out when Samuelsson was drafted even earlier. I expect a 1st rounder and a high 2nd rounder to at least be NHL regulars. When I project them as top 4 dmen in the future they are the 3 and 4. They are the dmen that McCabe was projected to be. McCabe was also drafted near them and was a similar level prospect. McCabe at least has panned out to be a #4/5 type. I just trust Botts drafting and think that Johnson and Samuelsson will end up as long term contributors for this teams blueline.

We already have two high end young LHD and RHD. They may not play with each other but in the future they are our top 2 dmen (RD and Joki). RJ and MS can partner with them and form a solid top 4 corps. They are all 18-20 age group. Hell, we should all be hoping they reach their potential and more, having 4 legit top 4 dmen all within 2 years of each other would be akin to having a Nashville level defense in the mid/late 00s.

Bolded is verifiably untrue

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Bolded is verifiably untrue

Nah, if you're a top 32 pick you must pan out. But if you're drafted 33? You got some wiggle room.

 

[Buffaloed]

This is a general discussion thread for all prospects. Any prospect from any team, drafted or undrafted may be discussed here. Analysis of scouting, thoughts on drafting and rankings can be discussed here.

If you want to discuss or post information about a particular prospect, post it in the thread named for that prospect. They're easy to find using search or sorting by thread tag.

The goal is to try to keep the information in the prospect threads as much about the prospect as possible. If you want to make a case that a different player should have been drafted instead of of the player that was drafted, make your case here. It does not belong in that prospect information thread.

 

[lakai17]

When does Pilut get the call?

 

[Orange Fanta]

I have been thinking a lot more of cozens and have been getting excited as a match up two power forward 2 or a heavy and fast goal scoring power forward he really is a guy that checks a lot of the boxes we need I personally think we'll be set if he reaches his potential along with upl. Being a huge homer but cozens might be able to provide exactly what this team needs

 

[Chainshot]

How is 51 goals and 102 points in 68 games for a not so good team considered a lack of production?

It does make one wonder what the issues are that would have so many look the other way. In this year's draft, Gunler is a bit of a pariah as well due to some things people have flagged as either attitude or entitlement or clashing with coaches. Others view it as headstrong or confident. *shrug*

It happens.

 

[Chainshot]

When does Pilut get the call?

Probably not until they clear at least one body off the roster. Montour is about to return from his hand injury so someone is coming out of the lineup and that's without having Pilut up.

 

[Buffaloed]

It does make one wonder what the issues are that would have so many look the other way. In this year's draft, Gunler is a bit of a pariah as well due to some things people have flagged as either attitude or entitlement or clashing with coaches. Others view it as headstrong or confident. *shrug*

It happens.

I think if the Sabres made that pick at 32 it would have been well received.

Prospect Deep Dive: Arthur Kaliyev

 

[Chainshot]

I think if the Sabres made that pick at 32 it would have been well received.

Prospect Deep Dive: Arthur Kaliyev

I like Kaliyev for the reasons one likes Kaliyev - the guy puts up points constantly.

The deeper philosophical questions about why they didn't take him also then start to trend into three years of taking safe picks with their second selection (Davidsson, Samuelsson, Johnson) rather than higher skilled, higher ceiling players.

And then there is their rating system that had them shuffling around multiple times in the current draft, which according to the pundits who crunch numbers on picks, is less likely to turn out than just simply making more selections. For a team that could have addressed net front grit in the middle rounds, they did not nor did they go after as many options for skill players in later rounds after neglecting that the year prior.

I like some of their players, I'm not sold on the philosophy.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I like Kaliyev for the reasons one likes Kaliyev - the guy puts up points constantly.

The deeper philosophical questions about why they didn't take him also then start to trend into three years of taking safe picks with their second selection (Davidsson, Samuelsson, Johnson) rather than higher skilled, higher ceiling players.

And then there is their rating system that had them shuffling around multiple times in the current draft, which according to the pundits who crunch numbers on picks, is less likely to turn out than just simply making more selections. For a team that could have addressed net front grit in the middle rounds, they did not nor did they go after as many options for skill players in later rounds after neglecting that the year prior.

I like some of their players, I'm not sold on the philosophy.

The Sabres have only had 6 picks in the last 3 drafts. And isn't Pekar and Samuelsson two of the players that address grit/toughness in each zone, Pekar in the oppositions and Samuelsson in ours? Cronholm also seems to be a dman best suited in his own zone with some snarl/toughness to his game. Botts may not have "won" any of the drafts league wide but overall fans should be happy with his 3 drafts. He at least has legit future NHL talent from his picks, far more then Murray who literally made 1 good pick when he wasn't at #2 overall.

I think Botts has done a good job drafting all aspects of players to build the pipeline. The 18 picks in his tenure are divided as 8 dmen, 4 centers, 4 wingers, and 2 goalies. And he has definitely hit on some middle round gems in Pekar, Laaksonen and UPL.

 

[Sabre the Win]

The Sabres have only had 6 picks in the last 3 drafts. And isn't Pekar and Samuelsson two of the players that address grit/toughness in each zone, Pekar in the oppositions and Samuelsson in ours? Cronholm also seems to be a dman best suited in his own zone with some snarl/toughness to his game. Botts may not have "won" any of the drafts league wide but overall fans should be happy with his 3 drafts. He at least has legit future NHL talent from his picks, far more then Murray who literally made 1 good pick when he wasn't at #2 overall.

I think Botts has done a good job drafting all aspects of players to build the pipeline. The 18 picks in his tenure are divided as 8 dmen, 4 centers, 4 wingers, and 2 goalies. And he has definitely hit on some middle round gems in Pekar, Laaksonen and UPL.

Every single guy you mentioned has not proven anything and future legit NHL talent is still yet to be seen.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Every single guy you mentioned has not proven anything and future legit NHL talent is still yet to be seen.

Even the "Murray drafted 1 player outside of #2" thing is flawed. (I assume the 1 is Olofsson).
2014 - Lemieux might still be something (though he was traded), and only a few names stand out in the guys Murray passed over (Point, Montour who we have, Dvorak, Arvidsson, Lebanc)
2015 - Poor draft capital management aside, Guhle will likely be an NHL regular with the Ducks, Borgen is hopeful, and again, only a few guys really stand out (Cirelli)
2016 - Yeah this one's pretty poor I have to agree, other than Asplund (though DeBrincat would be nice), and Mete would be better than NotMete

28 other GMs passed over guys like Point multiple times. And it's not just about the drafting, the development in the Buffalo system was also garbage, which can be blamed on multiple suspects including Murray/Regier/Pegula.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

Every single guy you mentioned has not proven anything and future legit NHL talent is still yet to be seen.

How could they prove anything if they are in junior and or college? The POTENTIAL is there for the above mentioned players who I really like and have watched them quite a bit.They add an element of skill,size and snarl that this organization lacks

 

[jc17]

Bolded is verifiably untrue

Yeah, so many people think first round picks should be locks, but in reality they're batting like .500.

Its why most teams fanbases think their drafting stinks, when so many guys dont pan out, but its just the reality.

 

[Sabre the Win]

How could they prove anything if they are in junior and or college? The POTENTIAL is there for the above mentioned players who I really like and have watched them quite a bit.They add an element of skill,size and snarl that this organization lacks

The point is they might not add anything reguardless of what you like in them. We already see Murrays draft picks and quite a few of them hit. Dolan illustrated the Murray picks of promise above.

This thing of Botterill vs Murray is out of hand in the minds of some on here. I'm for not for choosing sides of either but I feel Layne goes into hyperbole in his post to vindicate Botterill to put down Murray when right now Murray's picks are contributing more than Botterill's.

As of right now as I see it Murray did more for this pipeline in his short time than Regier did. Judgement is out still on Botterill.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, so many people think first round picks should be locks, but in reality they're batting like .500.

Its why most teams fanbases think their drafting stinks, when so many guys dont pan out, but its just the reality.

So there is also the fascinating flipside of that where every prospect is valued at the likelihood of them achieving their maximum value. It’s an interesting juxtaposition at least.