General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

[KINGS17]

Problem with that is proximity, if restaurants 30 minutes away from you opened up would you consider driving out there? An hour away? Maybe you wouldn't, but I'm guessing an awful lot of people from the problem areas would flood the lower risk areas if there was something worth doing.

Can people who have been under stay at home orders afford to eat at restaurants on the west side? How many people from East LA have you seen frequenting restaurants in Malibu, Culver City, etc. before the pandemic? It would have very little to do with proximity.

 

[justonetime]

There’s One Big Reason the U.S. Economy Can’t Reopen

To allow the recovery to begin, the United States must implement the kind of strategy that other countries have used to defeat the coronavirus. It must test widely to find infected people; trace their contacts, who might themselves have been infected; and isolate that potentially infectious group from the rest of the susceptible population. Setting up this kind of infrastructure was one of the initial goals of the social-distancing measures that states and cities started in March.

Yet so far the country has failed to do so. More than 10 weeks into the coronavirus crisis, too few Americans are being tested for the coronavirus, and the country’s testing capacity is not growing fast enough, according to data collected by the COVID Tracking Project, a volunteer initiative housed within The Atlantic. This week, the U.S. tested about 264,000 people a day, the highest level in the pandemic so far. But experts say that if the country hopes to get its outbreak under control, it must double or triple the number of daily tests. Some propose expanding testing more than 75-fold.

Good luck contact tracing the 80-85% of infected people that show zero symptoms and have no reason to seek out a test.

 

[Bandit]

Good luck contact tracing the 80-85% of infected people that show zero symptoms and have no reason to seek out a test.

They seem to be able to do it in other countries?

 

[justonetime]

They seem to be able to do it in other countries?

‘What If My Family Found Out?’: Korea’s Coronavirus Tracking Unnerves Gay Community

Yep zero problems with that...

 

[justonetime]

Also, since we are following the science and all...

Can anyone provide scientific proof that contact tracing is effective to stop coronavirus deaths?

 

[KINGS17]

They seem to be able to do it in other countries?

Other countries with 330 million in population, or countries with a population equating to California?

 

[KINGS17]

Also, since we are following the science and all...

Can anyone provide scientific proof that contact tracing is effective to stop coronavirus deaths?

United States deaths per million population 262
South Korea deaths per million population 5

This data may be skewed by many other factors, such as nursing home deaths, age demographics, etc.

No doubt it appears in you contact trace someone who has tested positive, and assume those they have come in contact with are infected, then quarantine everyone you believe may be infected it could help. When it comes to the number of cases:

United States cases per million population 4385
South Korea cases per million population 214

The population of United States is 330 million, while the population of South Korea is 52 million. I doubt there is an appetite for contact tracing among Americans to make a major difference. I also doubt any level of government would be effective in developing contact tracing, or using it in a proper manner.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 4,508,704 Cases and 302,324 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

This provides an overview of the amount of contact tracing with is (supposedly) being done by various countries.

Which countries do COVID-19 contact tracing?

 

[justonetime]

United States deaths per million population 262
South Korea deaths per million population 5

This data may be skewed by many other factors, such as nursing home deaths, age demographics, etc.

No doubt it appears in you contact trace someone who has tested positive, and assume those they have come in contact with are infected, then quarantine everyone you believe may be infected it could help. When it comes to the number of cases:

United States cases per million population 4385
South Korea cases per million population 214

The population of United States is 330 million, while the population of South Korea is 52 million. I doubt there is an appetite for contact tracing among Americans to make a major difference. I also doubt any level of government would be effective in developing contact tracing, or using it in a proper manner.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 4,508,704 Cases and 302,324 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

This provides an overview of the amount of contact tracing with is (supposedly) being done by various countries.

Which countries do COVID-19 contact tracing?

Here's one reason those death numbers could be skewed: San Diego Supervisor Says Only 6 Of 194 Coronavirus-Recorded Deaths ‘Pure’ Coronavirus Deaths

Montezuma County disputes state’s coronavirus death count

and here's a drug overdose while infected: Ventura County's coronavirus death toll climbs to 16; cases reach 465

Edit: Dr. Birx Quote:
“I think in this country, we are taking a very liberal approach to mortality,” she said at an April press briefing. “And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. … If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that.”

“There are other countries, that if you have a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus called you to go to the ICU (intensive care unit) and then have a heart or kidney problem,” Birx explained. “Some countries are recording that as a kidney issue, or a heart issue, and not a COVID-19 death.” In the U.S., she suggested, “we’re still recording it” as a COVID-19 death.

 

[tny760]

and here's a drug overdose while infected: Ventura County's coronavirus death toll climbs to 16; cases reach 465.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's one reason those death numbers could be skewed: San Diego Supervisor Says Only 6 Of 194 Coronavirus-Recorded Deaths ‘Pure’ Coronavirus Deaths

Montezuma County disputes state’s coronavirus death count

and here's a drug overdose while infected: Ventura County's coronavirus death toll climbs to 16; cases reach 465

Edit: Dr. Birx Quote:
“I think in this country, we are taking a very liberal approach to mortality,” she said at an April press briefing. “And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. … If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that.”

“There are other countries, that if you have a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus called you to go to the ICU (intensive care unit) and then have a heart or kidney problem,” Birx explained. “Some countries are recording that as a kidney issue, or a heart issue, and not a COVID-19 death.” In the U.S., she suggested, “we’re still recording it” as a COVID-19 death.

TIL there's a Montezuma County that's awesome.

Re: the Dr. Birx Quote that's how we've ALWAYS done medical reporting, this isn't special to COVID-19, and it's dishonest to report it as such.

Someone has a kidney issue. Gets admitted to hospital with coronavirus, dies in 10 days. It's common sense to report it as a coronavirus death and note the co-morbdities. This has been going on for years and years in this country and the only reason people have a problem with it now is because it lends to high coronavirus death reporting. That's an agenda.

 

[redcard]

Can people who have been under stay at home orders afford to eat at restaurants on the west side? How many people from East LA have you seen frequenting restaurants in Malibu, Culver City, etc. before the pandemic? It would have very little to do with proximity.

Culver City is pretty busy on its own. And its not an issue of East LA -> Culver City, if you open up everything outside of Downtown and East LA, the millions of people there will just head to the town over. If you widen that circle you've still got millions on one side of the border willing to cross onto the other.

 

[justonetime]

TIL there's a Montezuma County that's awesome.

Re: the Dr. Birx Quote that's how we've ALWAYS done medical reporting, this isn't special to COVID-19, and it's dishonest to report it as such.

Someone has a kidney issue. Gets admitted to hospital with coronavirus, dies in 10 days. It's common sense to report it as a coronavirus death and note the co-morbdities. This has been going on for years and years in this country and the only reason people have a problem with it now is because it lends to high coronavirus death reporting. That's an agenda.

But does South Korea do it that way also? (I honestly don't know). I was replying to the post about why our countries numbers could be higher than what other country's are reporting.

 

[Bandit]

‘What If My Family Found Out?’: Korea’s Coronavirus Tracking Unnerves Gay Community

Yep zero problems with that...

That has nothing to do with whether or not it's possible, which is what your first post I quoted was about.

 

[justonetime]

That has nothing to do with whether or not it's possible, which is what your first post I quoted was about.

It does though. We have privacy laws, for good reason, and if we can't do contact tracing without violating privacy laws, we can't do it. Also, can you prove that contact tracing is even effective when dealing with COVID-19?

 

[Bandit]

It does though. We have privacy laws, for good reason, and if we can't do contact tracing without violating privacy laws, we can't do it. Also, can you prove that contact tracing is even effective when dealing with COVID-19?

Your first post was about people being asymptomatic and not seeking testing, then it was about outing gays, now it's about privacy laws. I can't keep up with your moving goalposts and frankly I don't care to. Its not like I'm even saying contact tracing is a great idea, just that it is possible. Can you prove that contact tracing ISN'T effective when dealing with COVID-19?

 

[justonetime]

Your first post was about people being asymptomatic and not seeking testing, then it was about outing gays, now it's about privacy laws. I can't keep up with your moving goalposts and frankly I don't care to. Its not like I'm even saying contact tracing is a great idea, just that it is possible. Can you prove that contact tracing ISN'T effective when dealing with COVID-19?

I was responding to the article posted that says contact tracing is a necessity to reopen. I don't agree that it is, for the reasons I have mentioned. For it to be a necessity, one would think it must be proven to work, I'm not sure how proving something doesn't work applies. Outing gays and privacy laws are the same thing, and they actually, really are another hurdle for contact tracing the way other countries (like South Korea) do.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying that using the excuse that we don't have full 100% contact tracing shouldn't necessarily mean we can't proceed with reopening, it's not some magical solution. Nothing is. We have to learn to live with it (COVID-19), like we have lived with other diseases our entire existence.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, at least the toilet paper shortage may soon end for those of you not smart enough to have a bidet.

I don't understand who is going to use the giant rolls they are standing in front of though. You would have to be a giant ahole to need those. Wait, I can think of a few politicians, and supposed "public servants"

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, if anyone thinks testing and tracing isn't effective, look no further than the White House, who has daily testing, tracing of contacts, and quarantine of possibly affected people, as well as masks for everyone but Trump.

Do as I say, not as I do.

But does South Korea do it that way also? (I honestly don't know). I was replying to the post about why our countries numbers could be higher than what other country's are reporting.

I can't speak to how smaller countries do it but I assume with a much more effective healthcare system AND lower population leading to lower deaths it's much, much easier to track.

 

[justonetime]

I mean, if anyone thinks testing and tracing isn't effective, look no further than the White House, who has daily testing, tracing of contacts, and quarantine of possibly affected people, as well as masks for everyone but Trump.

Do as I say, not as I do.



I can't speak to how smaller countries do it but I assume with a much more effective healthcare system AND lower population leading to lower deaths it's much, much easier to track.

Fair enough. It's not that I don't think we should do what we can to keep us safe. I'm just tired of being told the only solution is to wait until the magic cure arrives, whether it's infinite shelter in place, a vaccine that nobody has a definite timeline on, or an ever increasing "standard" on testing or contract tracing.

We have options on how to react to this. As we learn more and more our policies and opinions from two months ago need to move with what we've learned. I was originally for the lockdown based on what we were originally told, and even in hindsight I don't think it was the wrong thing to do.

Since then we've learned the risk is very very low to younger people without pre-existing conditions, and very high for older, sicker people. We need to be very careful with the elderly, but we also need to allow people to have personnel responsibility and to make their own choices. We can't let the hospitals get to the point where sick people can't be treated, but we can't indefinitely postpone preemptive care either.

People's jobs and business are essential to their lives, and we all deal with an amount of risk on a daily basis. I don't think obese diabetic hypertension patient should be going out to a restaurant or bar, but I do think a healthy 20-50 year old person should. That's just my opinion, and people are allowed to disagree, but forcing everyone against their will to wait for the "magic cure" is ridiculous to me.

 

[KINGS17]

I mean, if anyone thinks testing and tracing isn't effective, look no further than the White House, who has daily testing, tracing of contacts, and quarantine of possibly affected people, as well as masks for everyone but Trump.

Do as I say, not as I do.




I can't speak to how smaller countries do it but I assume with a much more effective healthcare system AND lower population leading to lower deaths it's much, much easier to track.

I think the numbers from South Korea indicate contact tracing could be effective. Given the ineptitude of government at every level, and the inability of government officials to force Americans to allow themselves to be tracked, I don't think it is practical.

We have a limited amount of time left for the economy to be reengaged before long-term damage is done, if it hasn't been done already.

 

[HeadInjury]

JC Penney declaring bankruptcy tomorrow.

 

[HeadInjury]

Greatest increases of COVID deaths projected in Republican states

This seems to contradict your article. Which one is correct?

Coronavirus cases aren't surging in high-risk states

 

[Bandit]

JC Penney declaring bankruptcy tomorrow.

I feel like they’ve been declaring bankruptcy for like 10 years at this point. Sears too.

 

[KINGS17]

This seems to contradict your article. Which one is correct?

Coronavirus cases aren't surging in high-risk states

One is based on real data, and the other is based on the continued use of flawed models.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think the numbers from South Korea indicate contact tracing could be effective. Given the ineptitude of government at every level, and the inability of government officials to force Americans to allow themselves to be tracked, I don't think it is practical.

We have a limited amount of time left for the economy to be reengaged before long-term damage is done, if it hasn't been done already.

Tend to agree, just pointing out that the "it's not effective" is just lip service for "we don't feel like it because it's too much trouble and WE'RE not effective."