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General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

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Raccoon Jesus said:
Test and trace isn't literally implanting you with a chip (though China was using some cellphone stuff, in line with their surveillance state)--it's if you test positive, going back and checking out everyone you had contact with in recent weeks to test and isolate those who could transmit the virus.

If you have a problem with being informed you were in contact with someone who had the virus, then yeah, we're f***ed anyway.
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it's less a matter of being upset about it by the reason for it, moreso i don't think it's the state government's place to be tracking who's in contact with who, and especially less their place to be mandating that a certain NUMBER of connections are made to allow a county to open

getting a call like "hey your credit records show you were at vons at 9am and in line with someone who tested positive, you are now required to quarantine for 2 weeks" is wayyyy out of line imo and raises some serious HIPAA questions to me

dictate PPE requirements for a length of time? ok. understandable. dangle the carrot in front of me saying that i can be free if i submit this information? not so much.
 
tny760 said:
it's less a matter of being upset about it by the reason for it, moreso i don't think it's the state government's place to be tracking who's in contact with who, and especially less their place to be mandating that a certain NUMBER of connections are made to allow a county to open

getting a call like "hey your credit records show you were at vons at 9am and in line with someone who tested positive, you are now required to quarantine for 2 weeks" is wayyyy out of line imo and raises some serious HIPAA questions to me

dictate PPE requirements for a length of time? ok. understandable. dangle the carrot in front of me saying that i can be free if i submit this information? not so much.
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This article does a really thorough job explaining why testing capacity is important but why tracing based on actionable data is also important:



I wasn't trying to be snarky with my last line--I'm mostly agreeing with you that I don't think Americans will willingly take tracing measures. But because of that, there's no real way to control the further spread AND open up.

Even South Korea did a combo of GPS data and credit card use etc...I don't think American's will even voluntarily download an anonymous tracking app to help out.

One thing though the article points out though is that the infected have historically had different rights as this virus is a "notifiable disease." I don't expect that to play well given how much hand-wringing there is about "my freedom" over masks, but given the prevalence of infectious diseases in the early-to-mid parts of the last century, "At that time, it was common knowledge that the sick did not have the same rights as the healthy, because they were an existential threat to society. Identifying them and isolating was crucial, so authorities had the right to do it.

This is still true today for long lists of diseases. But the concept is the same: If you are a threat to society, authorities should be equipped to remove that risk."

I mean the Riverside council meeting was so ignorantly defiant, it was basically f*** newsom, f*** you, we're rescinding everything, what else can we do to prove how free we are? I don't have much faith that people have the guts to act collectively for others at this point. It's frankly kind of depressing.
 
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Since the advent of the smartphone, people have been getting tracked whether they know it or not. Your carrier will always have location data on you whether or not you turn off location services or even emergency tracking. Yet, when tracking comes up for something like COVID, people go apeshit like their freedom or rights are being infringed. Know that the data is already there, it's just whether they are allowed to use it or not. Yet we will inevitably see someone participating in a demonstration with a sign that says "FREEDOM FROM TRACKING" while taking a selfie with their phone. It boggles the mind.

My European friends come here and always laugh and tell me how much it's like a police state in America compared to their home countries, they have nowhere near the law enforcement presence and they usually don't have hardcore weaponry. A lot of that is perception because they know how violent we are compared to them, but it always makes me chuckle.
 
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Fishhead said:
Since the advent of the smartphone, people have been getting tracked whether they know it or not. Your carrier will always have location data on you whether or not you turn off location services or even emergency tracking. Yet, when tracking comes up for something like COVID, people go apeshit like their freedom or rights are being infringed. Know that the data is already there, it's just whether they are allowed to use it or not. Yet we will inevitably see someone participating in a demonstration with a sign that says "FREEDOM FROM TRACKING" while taking a selfie with their phone. It boggles the mind.

My European friends come here and always laugh and tell me how much it's like a police state in America compared to their home countries, they have nowhere near the law enforcement presence and they usually don't have hardcore weaponry. A lot of that is perception because they know how violent we are compared to them, but it always makes me chuckle.
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That's a lot of what that article says too, haha.
 
People are inherently stupid and selfish. They don’t want “socialism” as they’re protesting driving down a road paid by tax dollars. They want their “freedom” to get sent off to war at 18 and get killed when they’re not legally old enough to have a beer at home. Irony and contradiction abounds.

Turn the power off on a busy intersection and watch how quickly everyone whips their dick out to f*** everyone else over so they can get through the light the fastest. People don’t deserve or know what to do with “freedom” from rules.
 
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Bandit said:
People are inherently stupid and selfish. They don’t want “socialism” as they’re protesting driving down a road paid by tax dollars. They want their “freedom” to get sent off to war at 18 and get killed when they’re not legally old enough to have a beer at home. Irony and contradiction abounds.

Turn the power off on a busy intersection and watch how quickly everyone whips their dick out to f*** everyone else over so they can get through the light the fastest. People don’t deserve or know what to do with “freedom” from rules.
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Spoken like a true tyrant.
 
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Legionnaire said:
Spoken like a true tyrant.
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Yup that’s me, Tsar Bandit the First. I rule my underwear drawer with an iron hand for sure.

I just observe the reality, it’s not my fault it’s true. And whether you like it or not your life IS governed but a TON of rules made by other people, many of whom are long dead.
 
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Bandit said:
People are inherently stupid and selfish. They don’t want “socialism” as they’re protesting driving down a road paid by tax dollars. They want their “freedom” to get sent off to war at 18 and get killed when they’re not legally old enough to have a beer at home. Irony and contradiction abounds.

Turn the power off on a busy intersection and watch how quickly everyone whips their dick out to f*** everyone else over so they can get through the light the fastest. People don’t deserve or know what to do with “freedom” from rules.
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Socialism advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. I do not see how a road built by the tax payers to aid in the free trade of private property owned by private citizens is socialism.
 
Bandit said:
Yup that’s me, Tsar Bandit the First. I rule my underwear drawer with an iron hand for sure.

I just observe the reality, it’s not my fault it’s true. And whether you like it or not your life IS governed but a TON of rules made by other people, many of whom are long dead.
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It's not true and that's the problem.
 
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KINGS17 said:
Socialism advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. I do not see how a road built by the tax payers to aid in the free trade of private property owned by private citizens is socialism.
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Community resources used to build something used by the community is a hell of a lot closer to socialism than the stay at home order so many people can’t stop whining about as socialism.
 
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Bandit said:
Community resources used to build something used by the community is a hell of a lot closer to socialism than the stay at home order so many people can’t stop whining about as socialism.
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In a vacuum you are correct. The stay at home order at this point is more like needless totalitarianism. This was all fine when the stated goal was to flatten the curve and prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. The goal has been attained.

Let's not pretend the underlying agenda of several leading politicians in California isn't progressive socialism. This is a way for them to become more powerful and for the state to control more of the economy by making citizens dependent on government. Bad idea.
 
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Bandit said:
Never said they were.
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You absolutely implied it though. I agree with a bit of what you are saying but let us call a pig a pork.

Are you feeling my dogs?
Are you feeling my dogs?
If you are feeling my dogs then would you call me?
I can't feel my dogs and they have been around my necks for the past 3 plus decades.
I'm hip.
 
KINGS17 said:
In a vacuum you are correct. The stay at home order at this point is more like needless totalitarianism. This was all fine when the stated goal was to flatten the curve and prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. The goal has been attained.

Let's not pretend the underlying agenda of several leading politicians in California isn't progressive socialism. This is a way for them to become more powerful and for the state to control more of the economy by making citizens dependent on government. Bad idea.
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Nailed it. Simple deductions really.
 
KINGS17 said:
In a vacuum you are correct. The stay at home order at this point is more like needless totalitarianism. This was all fine when the stated goal was to flatten the curve and prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. The goal has been attained.

Let's not pretend the underlying agenda of several leading politicians in California isn't progressive socialism. This is a way for them to become more powerful and for the state to control more of the economy by making citizens dependent on government. Bad idea.
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i'm not gonna take it as far as that 2nd paragraph cause its a malice vs ignorance thing to me, they're not maliciously trying to inflict something on us, they're just ignorantly driving "more more more" because i think its human nature, but they're not thinking of the consequences

i certainly agree with questioning the goalpost moving though and i think that's something they should answer to. flattening the curve was absolutely the initial point, that very casually turned into "eradicate the disease" which is not something we can do. if there's a 2nd spike, OK, reimplement more restrictions. it's time to make some changes though.

all that said, i absolutely agree that this shouldn't be such a black and white issue in the frame of the anarchy vs socialism. all things need checks and balances. i'm willing to give a bit here, but for the right reasons.
 
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ricardfromage said:
You absolutely implied it though. I agree with a bit of what you are saying but let us call a pig a pork.

Are you feeling my dogs?
Are you feeling my dogs?
If you are feeling my dogs then would you call me?
I can't feel my dogs and they have been around my necks for the past 3 plus decades.
I'm hip.
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Nah I didn't. Whatever you want to call the system we are living in, I would hope we can all agree that it is currently neither socialism nor anarchy, yet when people are presented with the opportunity to operate outside the rules of our society without a mortal fear of being bitchslapped, they do so without hesitation. This is how when something like covid comes along you get people doing an end around on the toilet paper line at Costco to snatch it from the back and run away, or beat someone up in the parking lot over a few boxes of kleenex. This happens absent of socialism or anarchy, because people are garbage. People need the rules AND the fear of enforcement to protect them from themselves.

Someone here, and it might even have been you, said "society is a thin veneer". Same shit.
 
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KINGS17 said:
In a vacuum you are correct. The stay at home order at this point is more like needless totalitarianism. This was all fine when the stated goal was to flatten the curve and prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. The goal has been attained.

Let's not pretend the underlying agenda of several leading politicians in California isn't progressive socialism. This is a way for them to become more powerful and for the state to control more of the economy by making citizens dependent on government. Bad idea.
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California is following nationally established standards so unless you're suggesting The White House is advocating socialism then it's a non-sequitur in this case.

Of course the national story changes every day so we're talking about Tuesday's standards vs. today's standards but you get the point.
 
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tny760 said:
i'm not gonna take it as far as that 2nd paragraph cause its a malice vs ignorance thing to me, they're not maliciously trying to inflict something on us, they're just ignorantly driving "more more more" because i think its human nature, but they're not thinking of the consequences

i certainly agree with questioning the goalpost moving though and i think that's something they should answer to. flattening the curve was absolutely the initial point, that very casually turned into "eradicate the disease" which is not something we can do. if there's a 2nd spike, OK, reimplement more restrictions. it's time to make some changes though.

all that said, i absolutely agree that this shouldn't be such a black and white issue in the frame of the anarchy vs socialism. all things need checks and balances. i'm willing to give a bit here, but for the right reasons.
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California's still on the upswing though and most southern CA counties have seen upticks/spikes in the last week, and the point/problem is there's no way in hell these counties are going to 'reimplement' restrictions. (again I'll reference the riverside county meeting. those administrators were seething at the CA govt, looking for any way they could to spite Newsom--there's no way they'll admit fault/wrong).

I too am willing to give but I don't believe the 'open it up' folks will reciprocate in any way. Once we're open, we're open. That's it. Control is 'over.' Hell, masks are already gone, and that's the easy part.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
California's still on the upswing though and most southern CA counties have seen upticks/spikes in the last week, and the point/problem is there's no way in hell these counties are going to 'reimplement' restrictions. (again I'll reference the riverside county meeting. those administrators were seething at the CA govt, looking for any way they could to spite Newsom--there's no way they'll admit fault/wrong).

I too am willing to give but I don't believe the 'open it up' folks will reciprocate in any way. Once we're open, we're open. That's it. Control is 'over.' Hell, masks are already gone, and that's the easy part.
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https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/cont...OVID-19 Hospitalizations by Date Admitted.pdf
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/cont...emiology/COVID-19 Deaths by Date of Death.pdf

i'm not seein it brother

we played ball down here, now we're being punished for other county's sins?
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
California is following nationally established standards so unless you're suggesting The White House is advocating socialism then it's a non-sequitur in this case.

Of course the national story changes every day so we're talking about Tuesday's standards vs. today's standards but you get the point.
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Um yeah, they are not the same. Calfornia's requirements are more stringent.

Opening Up America Again | The White House
 
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