General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Herby]

Over 1,000 kids have lost their lives to COVID-19, Herby. Your arguments are strikingly close to ridiculous Trumper arguments that forcing kids to wear masks in schools is "child abuse." You go ahead and storm those foreign beaches, Herby. We are sending 3,000 troops to Poland. Sign up.

I wasn't the one who brought up the storming of beaches Ron, it was in response to someone else. My only comment was that a certain group would probably be more successful storming a beach than another one. Not exactly an Earth shattering comment if you know the ideological makeup of current and former military.

I never used the words "child abuse" in any of the posts I made or came "strikingly close" to saying it, it's a dishonest take and makes your argument look weaker. If I thought wearing masks was child abuse I would have pulled my daughter out of school which my ex-wife talked to me about doing (for completely different reasons), we didn't. You could also maybe generate a a better discussion by not resorting to juvenile name-calling, it accomplishes nothing but turning a conversation to an unfriendly one. I don't judge you based on who you and tens of millions of other people voted for, it's irrelevant to the discussion, I'd like the same luxury.

Wondering about long-term effects on social and emotional development is a valid concern that I'm sure will be further studied in the years to come. I am sorry that children have died from this virus, and I don't want the next comment to make it seem like I am one of those "It's only the flu" people, because I promise you I most certainly am not. But considering other airborne illnesses are also fatal to thousands of children every year is the solution to permanently wear masks in schools going forward? What if Covid is never eradicated and becomes something we deal with every year? I have heard some people propose this and if the goal is to limit childhood deaths due to disease as much as possible without concern for any long-term effects why shouldn't we do it?

I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do Ron, the need to get so angry and lash out and call people names or accuse them of saying things they didn't. I have a view on dealing with this that is shared by a decent amount of people from all walks of life according to the notoriously right-wing NY Times Americans Are Frustrated With the Pandemic. These Polls Show How Much. . I don't feel like myself and tens of millions if not hundreds who feel the way that we do are making ridiculous arguments. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Fishhead]

But a lot of schools in America already do this, at secondary and even elemtary levels, how many instances has it happened where an SPO lost control of his or her weapon to a student? I am not criticizing, I am truly curious.

I just don't see what the other solutions are. I know people have their ideas but none of them are going to be survive legal challenges so I think we need to look at ones that will.

To keep it on Covid, what are your views on masks for staff and especially students? From the teachers I know it seems to be mixed, based largely on political lines. I think a teacher should be able to wear a mask should they choose to, and also believe a parent should be able to decide for their children. I think choice is overall a good thing on the matter.

It's more the risk. We actually brought that up as a potential solution when the school shootings were all over the place and both local SWAT and DHS said that's the worst thing we could possibly do. It could be because we are highly populated and in So Cal, but they emphasized that it's not a good strategy in general. Their reasoning was as such: school shootings are so extremely rare that the risk is nowhere worth it. An accident is far more likely, particularly at the secondary level. It also can perpetuate gun culture among the young where they become commonplace rather than something that is used as a last resort. They also said that it is ineffective if a student is the one that brings a weapon to school, because the damage will be done before any armed guards could show up. Lastly, they said if it wasn't a law enforcement professional and just a paid guard, there's no telling if they would actually put themselves in a dangerous situation if something did go down. People who make $20 an hour aren't generally going to put their lives on the line for anything. Their preferred solution is restricting access and having a secure perimeter where no one can get on campus without us knowing it and knowing who they are. I have to call in for any visitor, parent, etc. that wants to meet on Campus. I really couldn't feel safer.

As far as COVID, we've been in masks since the first mandate, and still are. All of our teachers comply, there is very little pushback, if there is any I haven't heard it. We follow OCDH guidelines, so right now any indoor spaces require masking. Based on what I've heard from parents, I don't think any of them should have any input on whether or not their kids wear masks at school. I've had one tell me it's the equivalent of torture and that their kid can't function, is crying all the time, etc. You couldn't tell because the kid always joking and smiling in class, no stress whatsoever. One of my most relaxed students. I had another tell me they cause brain damage. Yeah, because surgeons who save lives daily doing intricate operations are barely functional from that complete lack of oxygen. Meanwhile, her daughter is getting one of the highest grades in my class and always has her mask on with no complaints. A lot of them are so wrapped up in politics and even conspiracy theories that they can't make informed decisions, and they will literally make crazy shit up to try and get me to somehow agree with them and get rid of the mask requirement. They really ruin it for all the level-headed ones out there and it's why there should be zero parental input on the matter. I have yet to have a single student tell me that they think wearing a mask is a big deal, it's usually that it makes them hot.

The most common thing I've heard is students wanting to get the vaccine and their parents are on the opposite end of the spectrum. It really sucks to see them struggle with that, they see their friends getting sick from it and they only want to try and protect themselves. At the same time, they love their parents and don't want to cause a problem there. That's actually really hard to listen to because regardless of my belief that vaccines are essential, I'm not going to guide them one way or the other. I just tell them to use the tools at their disposal to make a choice that they think is best and discuss it with their parents. I tell them even if it leads to a conversation they don't want to have, when parents hear something from their kids it's a lot different than hearing it on the internet.

I also have a kid in elementary, so I recognize the difference. He keeps that thing on religiously, especially since my father almost died from it, surviving hospice and eventually recovering. He wouldn't take it off at school even if I told him to. Giving the parents the choice would accomplish very little other than fights, bickering, and lawsuits. Hardly the kind of stuff we should be wasting educational dollars on.

 

[Herby]

It's more the risk. We actually brought that up as a potential solution when the school shootings were all over the place and both local SWAT and DHS said that's the worst thing we could possibly do. It could be because we are highly populated and in So Cal, but they emphasized that it's not a good strategy in general. Their reasoning was as such: school shootings are so extremely rare that the risk is nowhere worth it. An accident is far more likely, particularly at the secondary level. It also can perpetuate gun culture among the young where they become commonplace rather than something that is used as a last resort. They also said that it is ineffective if a student is the one that brings a weapon to school, because the damage will be done before any armed guards could show up. Lastly, they said if it wasn't a law enforcement professional and just a paid guard, there's no telling if they would actually put themselves in a dangerous situation if something did go down. People who make $20 an hour aren't generally going to put their lives on the line for anything. Their preferred solution is restricting access and having a secure perimeter where no one can get on campus without us knowing it and knowing who they are. I have to call in for any visitor, parent, etc. that wants to meet on Campus. I really couldn't feel safer.

As far as COVID, we've been in masks since the first mandate, and still are. All of our teachers comply, there is very little pushback, if there is any I haven't heard it. We follow OCDH guidelines, so right now any indoor spaces require masking. Based on what I've heard from parents, I don't think any of them should have any input on whether or not their kids wear masks at school. I've had one tell me it's the equivalent of torture and that their kid can't function, is crying all the time, etc. You couldn't tell because the kid always joking and smiling in class, no stress whatsoever. One of my most relaxed students. I had another tell me they cause brain damage. Yeah, because surgeons who save lives daily doing intricate operations are barely functional from that complete lack of oxygen. Meanwhile, her daughter is getting one of the highest grades in my class and always has her mask on with no complaints. A lot of them are so wrapped up in politics and even conspiracy theories that they can't make informed decisions, and they will literally make crazy shit up to try and get me to somehow agree with them and get rid of the mask requirement. They really ruin it for all the level-headed ones out there and it's why there should be zero parental input on the matter. I have yet to have a single student tell me that they think wearing a mask is a big deal, it's usually that it makes them hot.

The most common thing I've heard is students wanting to get the vaccine and their parents are on the opposite end of the spectrum. It really sucks to see them struggle with that, they see their friends getting sick from it and they only want to try and protect themselves. At the same time, they love their parents and don't want to cause a problem there. That's actually really hard to listen to because regardless of my belief that vaccines are essential, I'm not going to guide them one way or the other. I just tell them to use the tools at their disposal to make a choice that they think is best and discuss it with their parents. I tell them even if it leads to a conversation they don't want to have, when parents hear something from their kids it's a lot different than hearing it on the internet.

I also have a kid in elementary, so I recognize the difference. He keeps that thing on religiously, especially since my father almost died from it, surviving hospice and eventually recovering. He wouldn't take it off at school even if I told him to. Giving the parents the choice would accomplish very little other than fights, bickering, and lawsuits. Hardly the kind of stuff we should be wasting educational dollars on.

Thank you for your mature response, I don't agree with everything you said but I respect your opinions and contributions to the discussion even if different from mine.

My GF is a school psych and she just relocated to here from CA and she told me that they did have an officer on duty at the HS and Intermediate school she worked at in OC. Perhaps it is a district by district policy. My ex-wife (I know I attract to educators) is a teacher in Milwaukee Public Schools and they had an armed officer at all the schools up until the city terminated the contract in the aftermath of the Floyd protests. It doesn't get much more different than Milwaukee and Orange County as far as the demographics of the student body, so I find it a bit interesting. I actually just looked it up and as of 2016 43% of schools had atleast a part time police officer on campus (not including any armed guards, teachers or other staff). The point you mentioned about a $20 an hour guard not doing anything is a valid one, I think that was the case at MSD HS in Florida.

As far as Covid goes, despite what some other people here might think, I actually find myself right in the middle of it. Most of my friends from OC are un-vaccinated with my lifelong best friend calling me a sheep for taking the vaccine and questioning my political allegiance. I've told him my reasons for taking it, that as a T-1 diabetic I risk serious complications from being unvaxxed and getting it and that if he truly believed in what he says politically he would let me do me and respect my decision, but it has strained our friendship. I'm not a confrontational person so when I was home during the pandemic I'd always wear a mask at the sportsbar watching games because it said to on the door, they all thought I was a loser for following the mandates. Another friend of mine from college who we used to joke was to the left of Lenin and as recently as two years ago was an ardent Bernie Sanders supporter has done a total 180 on everything do to Covid and makes me look like AOC now politically so I certainly understand where that part is coming from with the conspiracy theorists. On the flip side, my ex-wife and her husband have IMO let it engulf them, she quit her job instead of returning when WI ended virtual learning, he quit his job to take a lesser paying remote job, they wear masks when they go outside, double masks when they are indoors, they have missed weddings and other social events out of fear. I was out with my daughter last year and we went into a grocery store and I realized that she had forgotten her mask, she covered her mouth (yes lol the worst thing) but then started shaking and crying uncontrollably and saying "Am I going to die, I don't want to die", her reaction brought me to tears which compounded her fear because she thought I was crying because she was going to die, it made me extremely pissed off at my ex-wife and her husband for the psychological damage living like that was doing to our daughter. I ofcourse got the "You shouldn't go to indoor places even with a mask, it's irresponsible" response from them. So like I said, gotten it from both sides.

I disagree with you on some things, I don't think children under 18 should be able to be vaccinated without parental consent under any circumstances. I think it's fine if parents choose that option for their children, but if I had my say I would opt for her not to get it. My daughter actually had asymptomatic Covid last month and isn't yet eligible for the vaccine, but I'm sure it's a debate I'll be having with my ex the day that she is. I used to be a gambler so I play the odds, for me the mortality rate of a 40 year old T-1 diabetic with Covid made me ok with any potential undiscovered long-term negative effects the vaccine could have on me for the rest of my life. For a healthy 8 year old with her whole life in front of her the chances of her dying or getting very sick from Covid are just so low that I don't believe it's justified. I believe that most adults should do it, especially if you have any kind of health issues (including obesity) and certainly if you are elderly, but for kids I'm just not convinced it's the right move until more studies on any long-term complications that could arise.

 

[Fishhead]

Thanks for the well-thought-out response.

It really is rough for kids either way, it's why I don't really steer them. I get to know them well but it's not my job to tell them what to do one way or another. I encourage them to talk to their parents about how they feel, if even for the sole reason of keeping the trust going between them. As such I'm totally on board with a parental consent requirement. I also agree that it's crazies on both sides that screw it up for the rest of us. If parents actually thought things out like you laid out, there would be very little issue. Unfortunately, a lot of them don't and are just fanatical on one side or the other. I've had parents rant to me about how our governor is a commie, how a leftist judge screwed their visitation rights, how Trump ruined everything for everyone, and so on.

It's really not that hard to use common sense. While I would certainly recommend everyone getting a vaccine if they are able (simply for the sole reason of getting everyone as immune as possible), running into a store for a few minutes without a mask isn't going to expose you to anything. Even in indoor spaces with Omicron you have to stay fairly close to someone and be trading particulates for at least a good 10 minutes before things begin to transfer. My wife actually has a degree in immunology so she's less comfortable with that than I am, but data doesn't lie, only the interpreters of it do. I haven't got it yet despite being in a higher-risk job so I'm doing something right I guess.

Even though I got my shot pretty quick I also was hesitant with my 8-year-old. After reading through the tables and their adverse reaction data we decided on him getting it, and it was completely inconsequential. I am kind of the opposite of many folks I know in that I was worried about immediate effects and actually don't worry at all about long-term effects. Everything in the Pfizer shot is native (or derived), and mRNA of course is disassembled rapidly after translation. I just chalk that up to knowing some biochemistry and that those types of lipids aren't persistent in the body, there is absolutely nothing in there out of the ordinary. There also have been over 7 million 5-12'ers vaccinated with serious adverse reactions numbering in the single digits, almost all of which resolved quickly. While that comforted me, I would never try to talk a parent into vaccinating their kid or even broaching the subject. We all protect our kids with a passion and I fully understand the hesitancy. I'll be even more cautious with my younger one, because the dosage seems to be complex. At least if you do lose that debate there is a lot of data out there to give you comfort.

 

[RonM11]

I wasn't the one who brought up the storming of beaches Ron, it was in response to someone else. My only comment was that a certain group would probably be more successful storming a beach than another one. Not exactly an Earth shattering comment if you know the ideological makeup of current and former military.

I never used the words "child abuse" in any of the posts I made or came "strikingly close" to saying it, it's a dishonest take and makes your argument look weaker. If I thought wearing masks was child abuse I would have pulled my daughter out of school which my ex-wife talked to me about doing (for completely different reasons), we didn't. You could also maybe generate a a better discussion by not resorting to juvenile name-calling, it accomplishes nothing but turning a conversation to an unfriendly one. I don't judge you based on who you and tens of millions of other people voted for, it's irrelevant to the discussion, I'd like the same luxury.

Wondering about long-term effects on social and emotional development is a valid concern that I'm sure will be further studied in the years to come. I am sorry that children have died from this virus, and I don't want the next comment to make it seem like I am one of those "It's only the flu" people, because I promise you I most certainly am not. But considering other airborne illnesses are also fatal to thousands of children every year is the solution to permanently wear masks in schools going forward? What if Covid is never eradicated and becomes something we deal with every year? I have heard some people propose this and if the goal is to limit childhood deaths due to disease as much as possible without concern for any long-term effects why shouldn't we do it?

I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do Ron, the need to get so angry and lash out and call people names or accuse them of saying things they didn't. I have a view on dealing with this that is shared by a decent amount of people from all walks of life according to the notoriously right-wing NY Times Americans Are Frustrated With the Pandemic. These Polls Show How Much. . I don't feel like myself and tens of millions if not hundreds who feel the way that we do are making ridiculous arguments. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Your post is a pretty good compilation of mischaracterizations, but that's what you get on an Internet posting board. Wear a mask, Herby. It will keep you and the people you love safe. We are all frustrated. This isn't a me vs. you or your bad takes. I hate the virus too. I'm just (apparently) a hell of a lot more careful than you are.

Oh, and another thing. I'd like to know how many raids you actually were on. As a retired law enforcement officer, I'm sure I've done a lot more "storming" than you have.

 

[Herby]

Your post is a pretty good compilation of mischaracterizations, but that's what you get on an Internet posting board. Wear a mask, Herby. It will keep you and the people you love safe. We are all frustrated. This isn't a me vs. you or your bad takes. I hate the virus too. I'm just (apparently) a hell of a lot more careful than you are.

Oh, and another thing. I'd like to know how many raids you actually were on. As a retired law enforcement officer, I'm sure I've done a lot more "storming" than you have.

The bolded part is quite the contradiction with the 2nd paragraph.

I never mentioned what anyone does for a living, but since you did thank you for your service, but lets be honest you are clearly in the minority within your profession when it comes ideologically. I had a couple professors in college who thought differently than the rest, doesn't mean you can't label the group as a whole. There will always be minority views within a larger group, is it a "mischaracterization" to say that police and military are more likely to have an opposing view than you do?

You are again acting like I have some crazy outlier opinion Ron, it might be a shock to you but the polling shows that many people feel the same way that I do, right or wrong.

I wear a mask where it is mandated or requested by a business, when I am in CA or Ann Arbor I wear one because it's the accepted norm and I don't want to deal with idiots saying stuff to me. Up here I don't, because no one else does and again I don't want to deal with idiots saying stuff to me. I am not in the business of telling people what they should or shouldn't do, I look out for myself and my daughter and let other adults make their own decisions. I know that is a crazy concept in 2022 but it is how I feel.

 

[KINGS17]

Clearly, these children don't understand they are about to commit involuntary manslaughter...

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Clearly, these children don't understand they are about to commit involuntary manslaughter...

I can't tell you how many people who I took care of that died that it got it from Grandkids. Some will remember that they've given it to them. They will have to live with that trauma that they killed their grandparents, or perhaps try telling them it's not their fault. That trauma is worse than wearing a mask in my opinion. I wonder how many will blame their parents when they become of age since they didn't know better. While less likely now that vaccines are actually available, it's a trauma that we need to start looking at and have resources ready for kids when this realization hits if it all for the damage that was done.

1. Insurances figured out during the height of the pandemic, kids were spreading it while less symptomatic. So if parents were hospitalized, they looked at other people on their insurance plans and it was timed with kid's birthdays (birthday parties). This is important since kids 0-5 are ineligible and we don't know the long term effects yet. Keep in mind Polio showed up with Neuro issues 15 years later after the infection was considered resolved. Covid already has long term effects in the short time but later on it is more than likely we're going to see more of this. Omicron being more contagious, parents with 0-5 year old siblings are more likely to catch it now in these states. Removing masks too early is going to accelerate this but now it's on the young kids.

The study considered data from last year, when Covid was much more common and fewer Americans were vaccinated. But its conclusions are still relevant for Americans who are unvaccinated today — a group that includes all children under 12. That may be especially true as the new, more contagious Delta variant begins to circulate in more states.

Birthday Parties as Virus Vector

2. In a sub group of 0-5, kids who were primies don't do as well because of immune issues and there are more primies out there now than ever d/t science and better technology, but now we're taking it all back at least before giving parents a chance at a vaccine for the younger kids so they are going to get this which his higher risk for complications and necessary intubation, which has all sorts of PTSD effects.

3. It's also thrown a lot of kids into Type 1 DM which will affect the rest of their lives. Cost, expenses for the family that they didn't ask for. What's the solution? The districts that do this are just going to cause more harm IMHO. This is going to be harder for kids 0-5 because DKA and HHNS are hard to pull back from organ damage when BP drops due to dehydration. There is always some long term negative effect when renal damage every time someone gets admitted with kidney issues from DKA or HHNS. Kidneys never recover fully and these kids 0-5 don't even have a vaccine available. This variant is more likely to infect kids and it is reasonable to consider this will get passed on to their siblings if masks are removed.

I'm clearly for mandatory vaccines at the school level d/t it still being a public health crisis just for the same reason that we still vaccinate against polio, TDP and all the others because we want this pandemic to end. I think it will be with us for some time. Polio took 20 years to eradicate. MMR took 30 years to eradicate after vaccines became mandatory in schools. It's just going to go through the process just like the others, but holding back on mitigation risks now is foolish from my respect at least until vaccines are eligible for kids 0-5. We've lost more people during Omicron than Delta even though Omicron was supposed to be "milder" but the way it was explained and way people are taking it that it's "mild" and that's more than splitting hairs. It's a redefinition so we can get our economy on track. We've just repeated the mistakes of the past and it's not something to be proud of. The only difference is that kids 0-5 are on the receiving end and we've studied hardly anything on the effects of it except they are not dying but long term effects are still unknown. All we had to do is give parents the option from 0-5 when the vaccine became available and we can't even wait that long to protect them. I would like those parents to have that choice instead of holding their kids from school which is what is happening in my area. 1/3 of the students in my kids Kinder class were pulled from school because of younger unprotected siblings and other parents who just want to move on. If they are going to be mandated to send their kid to school, mitigation should at least be in place until the vaccine is available for 0-5 so parents can make that choice instead of forced into one.

 

[Schrute farms]

Are all these deaths truly due solely to Covid? I ask because i don't know. So i'm not being a brat or anything. I just want to understand and get clarification from someone who may know. Obviously the hospitalizations are overstated -- being that they include anyone in the hospital for something else and happen to test positive for CV even without symptoms (e.g., my sister recently).
My company (K's of people) has had one death...couple months ago with Covid and it was a big deal administratively. Turns out, he actually died of a heart attack and postmortem it showed he was CV positive.

 

[KINGS17]

My Mom is in her 80's now. She would rather see her great grandchildren with the small risk involved than live in fear and not see her family.

There is no way a kid, especially when they get to be teenagers isn't going to be exchanging germs with other kids. I am not going to ask kids to bear this burden.

If a grandparent is afraid of catching covid from a grandchild, don't see your grandchildren. Don't expect your grandchildren to keep you safe from a virus.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Man, I used to think there was nothing worse than using children for cheap political points, but I guess that just got one upped by people using children for fake political points via internet clout using viral videos. Gross.

 

[KINGS17]

Man, I used to think there was nothing worse than using children for cheap political points, but I guess that just got one upped by people using children for fake political points via internet clout using viral videos. Gross.

There is nothing political about children being released from a burden they should have never been forced to bear. The data simply never supported the wearing of masks by children.

I would argue it was politicized by strong local and national unions.

 

[Maynard]

There is nothing political about children being released from a burden they should have never been forced to bear. The data simply never supported the wearing of masks by children.

I would argue it was politicized by strong local and national unions.

Kids that whine about masks have parents and teachers who whine about masks. It’s a learned behavior just like everything else kids do. Well adjusted kids who don’t have freedom whiners for parents have adjusted just fine. It’s like a school uniform or a helmet on a bike. It’s a drag but they don’t get hung up on it. The parents and teachers do.

That video proves NOTHING. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was coached or rehearsed. Those kids would have the same reaction if someone walked in that classroom in a Spider-Man outfit, or if there was a fire truck outside. What’s the goal with sharing that video? “Gosh look at the happy kids! This proves that mask data is inaccurate! We were wrong all along!!!”

Total f***ing nonsense.

 

[KINGS17]

Kids that whine about masks have parents and teachers who whine about masks. It’s a learned behavior just like everything else kids do. Well adjusted kids who don’t have freedom whiners for parents have adjusted just fine. It’s like a school uniform or a helmet on a bike. It’s a drag but they don’t get hung up on it. The parents and teachers do.

That video proves NOTHING. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was coached or rehearsed. Those kids would have the same reaction if someone walked in that classroom in a Spider-Man outfit, or if there was a fire truck outside. What’s the goal with sharing that video? “Gosh look at the happy kids! This proves that mask data is inaccurate! We were wrong all along!!!”

Total f***ing nonsense.

Yes, the point is look at the happy kids getting back to leading a normal life free from irrational and stupid edicts made by authoritarians.

 

[Maynard]

Yes, the point is look at the happy kids getting back to leading a normal life free from irrational and stupid edicts made by authoritarians.

More exaggerations and hyperbole! You’re consistent. I’ll give you that.

 

[Fishhead]

There is nothing political about children being released from a burden they should have never been forced to bear. The data simply never supported the wearing of masks by children.

I would argue it was politicized by strong local and national unions.

The problem isn't so much the data as it is poor design. You'll see one study that says it does, another that says it doesn't. Check out the stats from Fort Hood in Texas. In that area some of the schools are on federal bases so they are required to wear masks, while the rest of the district schools are optional. The schools on the base that are subject to the mandate had a lot fewer cases than those off base where masks were optional. Then, you can find studies in Florida where the complete opposite is true, where schools with mask mandates had sufficiently higher cases compared to those where they didn't wear masks.

It's all easily manipulatable because of all the variables, such as time-period, variant, and so on. At the beginning of the pandemic masks absolutely reduced transmission, the data was robust. Alpha variants spread fairly easily, but nothing like later ones. Right now with Omicron masks don't mean a whole lot and have lost effectiveness, that variant is going to spread unless everyone is in N95's which was never feasible.

So now you have folks saying "See, I told you masks didn't work!" when they did for a long time, and others saying "Masks have always been shown to work!" when they did before, but really aren't now. This hasn't been one pandemic, it's been 3, each with their own different characteristics. But since the average joe doesn't really understand the evolution of viruses, scientific method, or how to actually read data, they go by whatever they read on the internet. And of course, they go to their typical sources that already verify what they believe for them anyways. The result is plenty of data sets ready to go to whoever wants to further their own agenda, whether it's a politician, union leader, school board member, etc.

 

[Master Yoda]

Clearly, these children don't understand they are about to commit involuntary manslaughter...

I don't know whether the video is using kids for political purposes. But one thing is clear from that video. None of those kids were holding their breath just for the camera.

 

[KINGS17]

The problem isn't so much the data as it is poor design. You'll see one study that says it does, another that says it doesn't. Check out the stats from Fort Hood in Texas. In that area some of the schools are on federal bases so they are required to wear masks, while the rest of the district schools are optional. The schools on the base that are subject to the mandate had a lot fewer cases than those off base where masks were optional. Then, you can find studies in Florida where the complete opposite is true, where schools with mask mandates had sufficiently higher cases compared to those where they didn't wear masks.

It's all easily manipulatable because of all the variables, such as time-period, variant, and so on. At the beginning of the pandemic masks absolutely reduced transmission, the data was robust. Alpha variants spread fairly easily, but nothing like later ones. Right now with Omicron masks don't mean a whole lot and have lost effectiveness, that variant is going to spread unless everyone is in N95's which was never feasible.

So now you have folks saying "See, I told you masks didn't work!" when they did for a long time, and others saying "Masks have always been shown to work!" when they did before, but really aren't now. This hasn't been one pandemic, it's been 3, each with their own different characteristics. But since the average joe doesn't really understand the evolution of viruses, scientific method, or how to actually read data, they go by whatever they read on the internet. And of course, they go to their typical sources that already verify what they believe for them anyways. The result is plenty of data sets ready to go to whoever wants to further their own agenda, whether it's a politician, union leader, school board member, etc.

I agree, in the beginning masks were important. There was no vaccine, and the wearing of masks by people who were carrying the infection helped reduce the spread.

The data for kids wearing masks in school has never been that strong, especially elementary school age children.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There is nothing political about children being released from a burden they should have never been forced to bear. The data simply never supported the wearing of masks by children.

I would argue it was politicized by strong local and national unions.

"Clearly, these children don't understand they are about to commit involuntary manslaughter..." and the video for pathos?

Crafted for petty likes. Start a youtube if you need validation that way. Keep that shit off the forum. You're making great points without the sensationalism.

 

[Jason Squirties]

The problem isn't so much the data as it is poor design. You'll see one study that says it does, another that says it doesn't. Check out the stats from Fort Hood in Texas. In that area some of the schools are on federal bases so they are required to wear masks, while the rest of the district schools are optional. The schools on the base that are subject to the mandate had a lot fewer cases than those off base where masks were optional. Then, you can find studies in Florida where the complete opposite is true, where schools with mask mandates had sufficiently higher cases compared to those where they didn't wear masks.

It's all easily manipulatable because of all the variables, such as time-period, variant, and so on. At the beginning of the pandemic masks absolutely reduced transmission, the data was robust. Alpha variants spread fairly easily, but nothing like later ones. Right now with Omicron masks don't mean a whole lot and have lost effectiveness, that variant is going to spread unless everyone is in N95's which was never feasible.

So now you have folks saying "See, I told you masks didn't work!" when they did for a long time, and others saying "Masks have always been shown to work!" when they did before, but really aren't now. This hasn't been one pandemic, it's been 3, each with their own different characteristics. But since the average joe doesn't really understand the evolution of viruses, scientific method, or how to actually read data, they go by whatever they read on the internet. And of course, they go to their typical sources that already verify what they believe for them anyways. The result is plenty of data sets ready to go to whoever wants to further their own agenda, whether it's a politician, union leader, school board member, etc.

Well said.

 

[KINGS17]

Quite a collection of celebrities at the Super Bowl yesterday, including our distinguished mayor.

Of course, you do have to remember they are all better than us, and much better than your kids attending public schools in LA County.

 

[RonM11]

Yes, the point is look at the happy kids getting back to leading a normal life free from irrational and stupid edicts made by authoritarians.

That video is pure bullshit. Clearly the kids were coached to react in that manner. Note the timing...and why is someone taking a video in the first place? Yeah, pure bullshit.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Masks forever!

 

[RonM11]

I don't like them anymore than you do. I'm just practical about it. Bottom line, we wait two more weeks (California is keeping the mask mandate on until the end of February in schools), so at least Omicron dips below where Delta and the original wild virus were at their peaks. It doesn't appear (at this time) that Omicron/BA-2 is going to stop the downturn, as happened in the UK and to a lesser extent in South Africa.

 

[Rusty Batch]

That video is pure bullshit. Clearly the kids were coached to react in that manner. Note the timing...and why is someone taking a video in the first place? Yeah, pure bullshit.

I love the conspiracy theories