General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning
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He’s said more than once that there’s “lots of data” supporting his claims so I’m sure it’s out there. He’s probably busy gathering links and double checking sources right now.
Sadly our government stopped tracking Covid Breakthrough cases Why has the CDC stopped collecting data on breakthrough Covid cases? | Yasmin Tayag so there are no studies for me to point to you inside the USA. There is a very expansive one in Israel though. So I'm not sure if you're saying that that study doesn't count? Seems like a weird position to take. Again It's always been common knowledge that natural immunity with other viruses is incredibly strong. The purpose of vaccines is to build immunity within the body without making the person sick.
You are saying there is Immense benefit for people who have had already had covid to also get the vaccine. I think that is an exaggeration but regardless it's separate from my point so I won't drill into it.
The point is that people with natural immunity are very well protected from covid. Thus they shouldn't be treated different.
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I provided a link but a simple Google search about comparing natural immunity to covid vaccine would net you multiple articles from reputable sources. Also there is a reinfection tracker here Suspected cases of COVID-19 reinfection - BNO News
That data also shows a very low amount of reinfection cases and deaths in the world and it has been up for some time. Particularly when compared to breakthrough cases the reinfection numbers are drastically low.
None of this should come as any surprise to people.
jfont
Registered User
What's a load of shit is that Jenny McCarthy has the influence she has with people. No one who is anti vax is credible. No one.
You want to know who peddles shit?
Fox News' Anti-Vaccination Hysteria Has Reached a Disturbing New Level
Though McCarthy may have some influence, far more people listen to those morons at Fox. Yet, here you are pissed off at C rate celebrity. Fascinating
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I mean, she likes to show her tits so she’s not all bad right? #freethenipple I think it was Jim Jeffries again who said “she’s a stripper and a comedian, two of my favorite kinds of people…”
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
I was pretty sure that you dont actually read what people type, this confirms it
I am not pissed off at anyone. Let's forget that Jenny McCarthy was even mentioned since you are oddly fixated on her
There is an anti vaxx community that has been going long and strong for 20+ years who believe that vaccines cause autism , based of research that has been proven falsified, that brought back Measles and plenty of other diseases that were close to being eradicated.
These people aren't getting the covid vaxx either and they aren't trump voters.
There are anti vaxxers on both sides of the political spectrum
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Yea I know some very liberal folks that lean towards a new age lifestyle that are anti vaxxers. I think they are smaller in numbers than the right wing sect but they do exist.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that tracker, it's woefully incomplete. There are like 35 cases from Texas and 5 from Florida. Those two states have had some of the worst outbreaks, yet only 40 combined reinfections in the last year? There is nothing there, no sources, no nothing. There is no doubt that reinfection rates are pretty low, but if that site was accurate it would put reinfection rates in the US at 0.2%, and we know it's way higher than that.
Here's a recent, albeit small study in KY which studied reinfection in those who had COVID comparing those who got vaccinated after with those who didn't: Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)
Their study showed that people who didn't get jabbed after previously having COVID had over a 2x higher chance of reinfection. So while it's small and not concrete, it's suggestive.
The other study you linked was from Israel, so I'm not sure how relative that is here given their different genetics. Still an interesting read, though.
Bottom line is even if you had COVID, getting the vaccine lowers your chances of reinfection and is beneficial for public health as a whole. The reason Delta had a chance to gain a foothold is that not enough folks had immunity and it had a huge amount of potential hosts to infect and mutate in. Every little bit helps, and my biggest fear is that not enough folks will get stuck, vaccinated or not, and another variant is going to come about. Maybe one that is different enough that prior immunity from either natural infection or vaccination won't mean shit. It's pretty much a race against time at this point.
The list of diseases eradicated by vaccines is long, and COVID wouldn't be any different if everyone was on board.
I don't understand why you so quickly throw out the study in Israel due to "their genetics" Jews from all over the world migrated to Israel it is not the homogeneous gene pool you are making it out to be lol.
Israel has taken a very aggressive approach to combating Covid they are vaccinated at an incredibly high rate (I believe they are on their 2nd booster shots now). They are a very advanced society that is currently tracking covid data far better then us. There is a lot to learn from Israel related to covid and being so quick to find excuses to dismiss data from there is ignorant.
That study had over 100k people involved and was very thorough and well thought out.
Going off memory from when I read it earlier today the Kentucky study you and another person linked for me included 232 people.
But it might be accurate when scaled up so let's assume it is. 2 times better protection is not "Immensely more protection".
In order to scale that data up let's look at the Israeli study which provides much better information in order for perspective.
Out of 46k+ people (the largest group) in the unvaccinated but previously infected only 68 cases of symptomatic reinfection, 4 hospitalizations and zero deaths... So basically you are saying we could have cut that down to two hospitalizations. Then calling it immensely greater protection.
But regardless its not relevant to my argument. Because the point is that the group who is vaccinated is not better protected then the group who has previously been vaccinated and because of that it's silly to force a massive group of people to get a vaccine that they frankly don't need. It's actually not science based.
And if you want to counter that by saying well they could be even more protected! Then apply the same logic to the vaccinated and additional booster shots. If you have two shots of a vaccine and i have two plus a booster then should I be able to force you to get a booster? Or 2 boosters... That argument your making is neverending. And what if the Israel data is right if I'm actually drastically more protected from covid then you because of my prior infection should I be able to force you to reach my level of immunity in order to go to work or get on a plane?
Sorry but it's just a strange way of thinking imo.
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2 times better is a hell of a lot of protection. I think it's 2.4x or something like that, that's around 140% better. That's pretty drastic. And just because one study from another country says otherwise, it doesn't somehow make the scores of other studies that have shown that vaccinated people are better protected than ones that were previously infected. This is something that was demonstrably true for a long time. Has the delta variant changed that? Possibly, but that's just a single study, it doesn't mean anything until it's confirmed by many others. It's like having 50 blue marbles in a bag and 3 red ones, pulling a red, then assuming "well they are all red".
I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on this, but here's what I don't get. People hate to be forced to do anything, but why is it such a big deal with a vaccine that is shown to be perfectly safe? It's safer than advil, tylenol, or any other pain reliever. The death rate is .000018, and it's not even verified that all of those deaths were due to the vaccine. That's just the fraction of people who died after getting it. The COVID death rate in the US is 1.6%, the vaccination death rate is .0018 percent. It's beyond a no-brainer.
People are fine being forced to do other things that save their own lives and the lives of others, like wearing seat belts, or not drinking and driving, or not firing rifles up in the air in a city, or not driving 80 miles an hour down a residential street. The vaccine saves lives and the lives of others. Even if an unvaccinated person is fine, they can easily and unwittingly spread it to someone who won't be. They might be hospitalized, which would have been avoided, and taken critical care away from someone else who urgently needed it. Vaccines prevent variants from forming by accelerating herd immunity, which might end up far deadlier than Delta. I don't see why seat belts being mandated is not a big deal, but if it's a vaccine there is an outrage. Both are proven to save lives. And yet, here we are listening to people crying about how they wish they had gotten vaccinated while someone is sliding a tube down their throat. There ain't no do-overs, I just hope those people didn't spread it to others before getting hospitalized.
All of the science points towards vaccination as the way to end this f***ing pandemic so we don't have to walk around in masks and can actually go about our business. It doesn't surprise me that people don't believe the scientists when it comes to that, though. I remember a dissertation presentation I was watching for an ichthyology class back in the late 90's, my instructor was the one presenting. He was explaining how fishing pressures were beginning to decrease diversity off the southern California coast, and that if unchecked, it would cause drastic drop-offs in the populations of large predatory fish. One of the other fellows asked if he had shared this data with fisheries managers and he said this: "It takes people about 10 years to actually listen to what most research scientists say, and another 10 for them to believe them". Everyone laughed because it's exactly true.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on this, but here's what I don't get. People hate to be forced to do anything, but why is it such a big deal with a vaccine that is shown to be perfectly safe? It's safer than advil, tylenol, or any other pain reliever. The death rate is .000018, and it's not even verified that all of those deaths were due to the vaccine. That's just the fraction of people who died after getting it. The COVID death rate in the US is 1.6%, the vaccination death rate is .0018 percent. It's beyond a no-brainer.
People are fine being forced to do other things that save their own lives and the lives of others, like wearing seat belts, or not drinking and driving, or not firing rifles up in the air in a city, or not driving 80 miles an hour down a residential street. The vaccine saves lives and the lives of others. Even if an unvaccinated person is fine, they can easily and unwittingly spread it to someone who won't be. They might be hospitalized, which would have been avoided, and taken critical care away from someone else who urgently needed it. Vaccines prevent variants from forming by accelerating herd immunity, which might end up far deadlier than Delta. I don't see why seat belts being mandated is not a big deal, but if it's a vaccine there is an outrage. Both are proven to save lives. And yet, here we are listening to people crying about how they wish they had gotten vaccinated while someone is sliding a tube down their throat. There ain't no do-overs, I just hope those people didn't spread it to others before getting hospitalized.
All of the science points towards vaccination as the way to end this f***ing pandemic so we don't have to walk around in masks and can actually go about our business. It doesn't surprise me that people don't believe the scientists when it comes to that, though. I remember a dissertation presentation I was watching for an ichthyology class back in the late 90's, my instructor was the one presenting. He was explaining how fishing pressures were beginning to decrease diversity off the southern California coast, and that if unchecked, it would cause drastic drop-offs in the populations of large predatory fish. One of the other fellows asked if he had shared this data with fisheries managers and he said this: "It takes people about 10 years to actually listen to what most research scientists say, and another 10 for them to believe them". Everyone laughed because it's exactly true.
I think you are wrong on the science part and I have tried to show evidence of that to you but you are not interested in it.
I also would love if we had better studies within our country but like I mentioned before the CDC has purposefully decided not to track very important data.
"All of the science points towards vaccination as the way to end this f***ing pandemic so we don't have to walk around in masks and can actually go about our business."
Well which is it? Is it the vaccine or the masks?
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
There are a lot of things wrong with that study, frankly. AND it's not peer reviewed as of yet. But there are a lot of things in there that are questionable at best at a short glance and I'm not even a research scientist.
That being said I'm open minded towards letting 'natural immunity' folks getting the same privileges as vaccinated folks.
THAT being said, personally, I think it's a metric f***ton riskier to wait to get covid than a vaccine, but at this point I don't care, the horses have been led to water but prefer to wait for rain.
That being said I'm open minded towards letting 'natural immunity' folks getting the same privileges as vaccinated folks.
THAT being said, personally, I think it's a metric f***ton riskier to wait to get covid than a vaccine, but at this point I don't care, the horses have been led to water but prefer to wait for rain.
jfont
Registered User
You were putting down the MSM and then you interjected McCarthy as one of them. I don't think I read that incorrectly. And we're not talking about other vaccination shit either. We were talking about anti-vaxxers for covid. I read that correctly, you were inferring that both parties do it which is BS.
Here's some more facts if it is about trump or party voters. I wonder where those 20 to 30 percent of Reps get their news?
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jfont
Registered User
Reading this source, here is a line there:
Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
I think all the more people should get vaccinated.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
So in other words, you either can't read or have a major learning disability.
Here is what I said
No way was Jenny Mc Carthy tied in to the main stream media.
Note this line and read it 30x please because you have an obvious comprehension problem
That is no way shape or form could mean the media to any sane person.
To every other poster here that meant the anti-vaxx crowd relying on falsified research about the MMR vaccine
Note:
But since you lack comprehension skills you immediately jump to a conclusion no other other human being on the planet would
I then link multiple articles which MENTION JENNY MC CARTHY AS THE FACE OF THE ANTI-VACCINE MOVEMENT.
You don't read a single one
and try to keep this about the media
More proof that you didn't read a single one of those links discussing how Jenny Mc Carhy was one of the premiere faces of the early 2000s anti vaxx movement and instead chose to attack fox news, who no one else was even talking about.
The conversation that you chose to inject yourself in was not about the media, you either chose to make it about that or your undiagnosed learning disability chose to read it as such.
.
Which I proved and you chose to not read
There has been an anti-vaxx movement on the other side of the political spectrum for over 20 years. That the rest of world is very aware of but you choose to bury your hand in the sand about because it doesn't fit in to your partisan narrative.
Note: Before covid
Vaccine fears brought measles back to New York
Note another article before Covid was a thing
https://pha.berkeley.edu/2019/12/01/americas-measles-crisis-amid-the-anti-vaccine-movement/
Note this part especially because you had ignored it multiple other times
Once again...
I never had the mumps.
Sadly, I didn’t get the MMR vaccine in time to prevent the Measles and Rubella, suffered through those as a kid. had chicken pox as well. I’m from a third world country after all …
But I won’t get Shingles. I get the vaccine for that.
Also don’t care for Tetanus. I get that vaccine every 5 years - live on a farm, lots of rusty nails and barbed wire to snag on.
Pneumococcal pneumonia - never had it, don’t want it, I take a vaccine for that.
Influenza - get the quad the moment it’s available, then I get another shot to boost it in February. Had the Flu, don’t want to go through that again.
Covid19 vaccine, got it in February. Come October I’ll line up right-quick for my booster. Can’t fathom the idea of not being able to smell or taste … just fundamentally torturous for someone as good driven as I am.
Hygiene, nutrition, and Vaccines have doubled the lifespan of humanity. If folks want to eat dirt and revert to base animal behavior, build immunity the natural way, I say go for it.
To quote a scene from The Expanse and my favorite side character, Anderson Dawes: “Die as you lived” …
Now can I please have my Delta Variant tailored mRNA vaccine booster, like right now! Cmmon Pfizer, get with the program and deliver the goods!
Sadly, I didn’t get the MMR vaccine in time to prevent the Measles and Rubella, suffered through those as a kid. had chicken pox as well. I’m from a third world country after all …
But I won’t get Shingles. I get the vaccine for that.
Also don’t care for Tetanus. I get that vaccine every 5 years - live on a farm, lots of rusty nails and barbed wire to snag on.
Pneumococcal pneumonia - never had it, don’t want it, I take a vaccine for that.
Influenza - get the quad the moment it’s available, then I get another shot to boost it in February. Had the Flu, don’t want to go through that again.
Covid19 vaccine, got it in February. Come October I’ll line up right-quick for my booster. Can’t fathom the idea of not being able to smell or taste … just fundamentally torturous for someone as good driven as I am.
Hygiene, nutrition, and Vaccines have doubled the lifespan of humanity. If folks want to eat dirt and revert to base animal behavior, build immunity the natural way, I say go for it.
To quote a scene from The Expanse and my favorite side character, Anderson Dawes: “Die as you lived” …
Now can I please have my Delta Variant tailored mRNA vaccine booster, like right now! Cmmon Pfizer, get with the program and deliver the goods!
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
3/28/2019
Measles, mumps, tuberculosis outbreaks: Are anti-vaxxers to blame?
3/13/2014
Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.
1/17/2020
Latest Data Confirms Anti-Vaxxers Are Winning: Measles Is On the Rise
8/2019
What the Measles Epidemic Really Says About America
Read this part mutiple times
Once again that article was from 8/2019
Measles, mumps, tuberculosis outbreaks: Are anti-vaxxers to blame?
Once again....
also from the same article
3/13/2014
Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.
1/17/2020
Latest Data Confirms Anti-Vaxxers Are Winning: Measles Is On the Rise
8/2019
What the Measles Epidemic Really Says About America
Read this part mutiple times
The number of unvaxxed quadrupled
Once again that article was from 8/2019
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
9/11/2019
The anti-vax movement is effectively reversing decades of progress in disease prevention
3/17/2014
Here are some diseases we're seeing thanks to anti-vaxxers
10/19/2018
Anti-Vaccination Movement Causes a Deadly Year in the U.S.
Oh whoops, look is mentioned as the poster child
I can link 50 more articles proving that this anti-vaxxine movement that you refuse to believe has existed for the last 20+ years if you want
The anti-vax movement is effectively reversing decades of progress in disease prevention
3/17/2014
Here are some diseases we're seeing thanks to anti-vaxxers
10/19/2018
Anti-Vaccination Movement Causes a Deadly Year in the U.S.
Oh whoops, look is mentioned as the poster child
I can link 50 more articles proving that this anti-vaxxine movement that you refuse to believe has existed for the last 20+ years if you want
Jason Squirties
Registered User
- Apr 15, 2014
- 1,338
- 1,043
Papa Mocha 15
I love the smell of ice in the morning.
Thanks. That's a preprint. Unfortunately, preprints are popular to get funding for studies because they submit they have an idea for something that is still not vetted and often need further exploration and then vetting. It skips a number of steps and they don't always disclose everything up front because they are seeking funding for grants like biases. Basically, preprints skip the approval process and the steps required to see if the study even holds up, if you want to say vaccines vs natural immunity should be looked at or considered, that's fine but it's certainly not overwhelming evidence and doesn't hold up at this time and prior covid positive individuals should not be vaccinated. I'd rather wait for evidence that has been actually vetted or reviewed before making a policy decision and thus far, the evidence is pointing the other way.
We have to be careful with preprints because in the wrong hands, we can go in a multiple diff directions. Appreciate you submitting the info, but more is needed before accepting the previously stated premise.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
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