General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Papa Mocha 15]

Well, mandates are coming shortly for a lot of folks, I'm sure we will see a jump in shots soon as it will make many people more comfortable. I'm curious to see how many holdouts will actually lose their jobs over a vaccine.

We will also finally see how effective the vaccines are once we climb into the higher percentages in a larger population. It's obviously going to help, but how much? Hopefully the focus shifts to analyzing breakthrough cases instead of just trying to tread water and keep a bunch of people alive.

I'm seeing a few protests outside a hospital where I'm at but the hospital getting sued or put on the hook for getting someone sicker because a staff member gave a Pt covid when they were there for an appendectomy doesn't seem to line up financially since the hospital would have to foot that bill for any prolonged stay plus deal with the bad publicity that they don't foster a safe environment. They would also have to report it as an incident and then also report an action plan so it does not repeat and then get surprise audits from the regulatory body. It really doesn't make sense for them financially to have unvaccinated staff. No one wants to be liable so I expect the hand of the market to take lead and create a safer environment on a large corporate level d/t that. Smaller business will get to do what they want provided they have the customer base that supports it.

As for me, I'm probably gonna switch out of the Covid unit so I'll just wait a bit until a job opens up elsewhere and one of those free dumb fighters bounce. There is going to be a lot of movement job wise over the next few months so this is a good time to get the resume ready.

 

[Lt Dan]

Hosp up today from 564
ICU down from 132

 

[Lt Dan]

oh shit, I missed this yesterday

Thu was:
477 new cases
7 deaths
Hosp 565
ICU 122


Today

Huge jump in Cases, Hosp and ICU today

Hosp 565-...> 592
ICU 122----> 132

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

These patients are sucking up so much time on the unit man power is stretched thin since it takes so long to gown up and down between rooms. Trying to transfer up the most stable Pt. I told a Doctor and my Charge Nurse to kick rocks for trying to transfer my elderly patient because he wanted to admit another COVID. My Pt still needed ICU level of care. They accepted and we kept my Pt but that's what being an advocate means. Gotta push back on the system and pick those fights but the issue is, a bedside RN shouldn't have to be picking that kind of fight but these are the conversations we're having folks, Unvaccinated folks who may be sick may take a bed from someone who doesn't advocate for themselves d/t age, mental condition, language barrier, cultural barrier etc. or just doesn't know how to speak up for themselves. That's why nurses are considered Pt advocates. Or worse, we minimize or cancel procedures because we are full and people who got vaccinated are getting the short end of the stick even though they did everything right.

On a work flow level, these unvaccinated can cause harm to other people by taking MDs and staff attention because they are crashing vs one who is not and things can get missed which build up into something else later unnecessarily. A nurse had to delay care on another Pt because another COVID Pt needed attention and hold their request for orders for 3 hours on someone else because of MD needed to be near there and that Pt was not dying but wasn't stable. These are the things that make a difference in care.

A vaccine is not about rights, this is about everyone and ripping apart our health care system and jeopardizing the more stable, but could go the other way, is not acceptable. It doesn't work and things get missed and people get hurt. I should never be asked "give my one good reason why we should keep your Pt?" I bounced back with 4 reasons because I was ready for that but the point is I should never have to have that conversation.

I would not be surprised if there is another mask mandate coming down the pipeline soon post election. If someone wins the gov. office and pulls mask mandates, a lot of RNs are gonna quit because it's setting us up for failure and the experience garnered already during this pandemic is going to be lost. We can't keep going like this and not gonna stand for it to get worse unnecessarily. This is why I keep an FU fund so I can tell management one day that I'm gonna bounce if it needed. If California changes policies and joins the Southern states in their lunacy, there is little reason to keep going from a safety perspective. No reason to stand in front of an avalanche.

 

[Lt Dan]

3 days worth of numbers, so 508.3 cases per day
We had a nice drop in hosp over the week 592---> 546
ICU went up 7 over the weekend

 

[ricardfromage]

General Covid, this is General Malaise here and I want to tell you that you have tested positive for snifflus. Report to sick bay immediately!

 

[Bandit]

These patients are sucking up so much time on the unit man power is stretched thin since it takes so long to gown up and down between rooms. Trying to transfer up the most stable Pt. I told a Doctor and my Charge Nurse to kick rocks for trying to transfer my elderly patient because he wanted to admit another COVID. My Pt still needed ICU level of care. They accepted and we kept my Pt but that's what being an advocate means. Gotta push back on the system and pick those fights but the issue is, a bedside RN shouldn't have to be picking that kind of fight but these are the conversations we're having folks, Unvaccinated folks who may be sick may take a bed from someone who doesn't advocate for themselves d/t age, mental condition, language barrier, cultural barrier etc. or just doesn't know how to speak up for themselves. That's why nurses are considered Pt advocates. Or worse, we minimize or cancel procedures because we are full and people who got vaccinated are getting the short end of the stick even though they did everything right.

On a work flow level, these unvaccinated can cause harm to other people by taking MDs and staff attention because they are crashing vs one who is not and things can get missed which build up into something else later unnecessarily. A nurse had to delay care on another Pt because another COVID Pt needed attention and hold their request for orders for 3 hours on someone else because of MD needed to be near there and that Pt was not dying but wasn't stable. These are the things that make a difference in care.

A vaccine is not about rights, this is about everyone and ripping apart our health care system and jeopardizing the more stable, but could go the other way, is not acceptable. It doesn't work and things get missed and people get hurt. I should never be asked "give my one good reason why we should keep your Pt?" I bounced back with 4 reasons because I was ready for that but the point is I should never have to have that conversation.

I would not be surprised if there is another mask mandate coming down the pipeline soon post election. If someone wins the gov. office and pulls mask mandates, a lot of RNs are gonna quit because it's setting us up for failure and the experience garnered already during this pandemic is going to be lost. We can't keep going like this and not gonna stand for it to get worse unnecessarily. This is why I keep an FU fund so I can tell management one day that I'm gonna bounce if it needed. If California changes policies and joins the Southern states in their lunacy, there is little reason to keep going from a safety perspective. No reason to stand in front of an avalanche.

My mother in law is someone of some importance in UC nursing, she's telling stories of the nurses losing their shit because of family members saying shit to them like:

"He doesn't have covid, it's a hoax."
"It's just the flu."
"Why aren't you trying harder to save them?"

IMO these people should be punched in the face and thrown out the nearest multi story window. No vaccination required.

Dunno how you're doing what you're doing but thank you for hanging in there.

 

[Lt Dan]

New cases are under 500, but Tuesday is generally low case day, but I'll take it!
Hosp down 10 today from 546 yesterday
ICU up again, from 139 yesterday

 

[ricardfromage]

99.97% survival rate for most demographics, no?

 

[Maynard]

99.97% survival rate for most demographics, no?

No. Your percentage is off, and your use of the word “most” is also incorrect.

 

[Bandit]

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

“One in 500 people in the U.S. has died from COVID. To try to trivialize it and say it’s nothing, it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just a gross mischaracterization of what we are all living through,” Giordano told The Associated Press in a call.

1.5 years in and we're still having this conversation...

 

[jfont]

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts



1.5 years in and we're still having this conversation...

Stupidity is timeless

 

[Maynard]

Stupidity is timeless

Especially when mixed with arrogance and selfishness.

 

[Lt Dan]

Over 500 new cases
Hosp does go down from 556----> 534
Icu up 1

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

This is not an article from The Onion:

Brazilian viper venom shows promise as drug to combat Covid (msn.com)

 

[KINGS17]

This is not an article from The Onion:

Brazilian viper venom shows promise as drug to combat Covid (msn.com)

Just remember it's urban legend that sucking on a snake bite wound has any impact on the effect of the venom.

Also, if you still believe the urban legend and you get bit in a certain place, you're gonna die.

 

[jfont]

Doctors dismayed by patients who fear coronavirus vaccines, but clamor for unproven ivermectin

 

[ricardfromage]

No. Your percentage is off, and your use of the word “most” is also incorrect.

So latest up to date research that I can find says that 98.97% of humans under the age of 70 will survive the covid 19 virus. How they come by that deduction specifically I am not aware of but either way, let's say I am off by another couple of percentage points (which I am not) that means that without vaccines or nasal sprays or anything else that at least 95% of us survive this virus. I am not justifying any position nor am I calling anyone names. I am simply pointing out a scientific fact as it is represented and it makes me wonder why this virus is being allowed to control us so radically.

I will also say that I live an an area of a state where we have had 8 deaths that have been loosely related to Covid (none of them listing Covid as the primary reason) and we have never observed a mask mandate nor have we done social distancing nor have we had any vaccine punishments. I am not opposed to alarmist opinions as I believe that they are based in observational experiences (anecdotal) and those have a chance of being correct. I have been to California a few times over the past couple of years and carried on the same way as I do here and suffered no ill effects. It doesn't mean that I couldn't have or that I am an indicator of a larger potentiality, simply my experience based on my personal observations.

So again, 98.97% survival rate or so it has been reported.

 

[Lt Dan]

Good new today!
Under 500 cases
Hosp down from 534 from yesterday
ICU down from 149 yesterday

 

[Fishhead]

So latest up to date research that I can find says that 98.97% of humans under the age of 70 will survive the covid 19 virus. How they come by that deduction specifically I am not aware of but either way, let's say I am off by another couple of percentage points (which I am not) that means that without vaccines or nasal sprays or anything else that at least 95% of us survive this virus. I am not justifying any position nor am I calling anyone names. I am simply pointing out a scientific fact as it is represented and it makes me wonder why this virus is being allowed to control us so radically.

I will also say that I live an an area of a state where we have had 8 deaths that have been loosely related to Covid (none of them listing Covid as the primary reason) and we have never observed a mask mandate nor have we done social distancing nor have we had any vaccine punishments. I am not opposed to alarmist opinions as I believe that they are based in observational experiences (anecdotal) and those have a chance of being correct. I have been to California a few times over the past couple of years and carried on the same way as I do here and suffered no ill effects. It doesn't mean that I couldn't have or that I am an indicator of a larger potentiality, simply my experience based on my personal observations.

So again, 98.97% survival rate or so it has been reported.

With a 5% death rate, that's more than the entire populations of any state not named California, Texas, Florida, or New York. That's a shitload of people.

What gets lost in the stupid politicizing of vaccines, which never seemed to be a problem before the internet showed up, is the literally stupid amount of money that is saved when people get vaccinated. My father got COVID right when vaccines started rolling out, he didn't have a chance to get it yet. The result was a near death experience and a 2 month hospital stay. I saw the bill, it would make almost anyone crap their pants. While it was covered, it was 7 figures. The amount of costs incurred from letting the virus run rampant would completely dwarf the amount of money made by the companies who created the vaccines. You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars. So who ends up paying for all of that? American taxpayers who pay for health insurance, that's who. It's not just hospital costs, it's long-term care too, along with the unnecessary deaths and costs of those who need hospitalization for things other than COVID but couldn't get the necessary care.

So a percentage only tells a fraction of the story, pun intended.

 

[Schrute farms]

With a 5% death rate, that's more than the entire populations of any state not named California, Texas, Florida, or New York. That's a shitload of people.

What gets lost in the stupid politicizing of vaccines, which never seemed to be a problem before the internet showed up, is the literally stupid amount of money that is saved when people get vaccinated. My father got COVID right when vaccines started rolling out, he didn't have a chance to get it yet. The result was a near death experience and a 2 month hospital stay. I saw the bill, it would make almost anyone crap their pants. While it was covered, it was 7 figures. The amount of costs incurred from letting the virus run rampant would completely dwarf the amount of money made by the companies who created the vaccines. You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars. So who ends up paying for all of that? American taxpayers who pay for health insurance, that's who. It's not just hospital costs, it's long-term care too, along with the unnecessary deaths and costs of those who need hospitalization for things other than COVID but couldn't get the necessary care.

So a percentage only tells a fraction of the story, pun intended.

Well to be fair, if you looking at the costs involved to compare, you would need to factor in the cost of the other side -- Govt stimulus money, lost businesses, lost jobs, less investment, lost tax revenues, additional government business/individual aid, bad/insufficient/lost kid & young adult education, etc. It's almost mind numbing thinking of the ripple effects long-term (each side quite honestly).

I'm not disagreeing with your point -- just that there's more to it than the initial death or health care. Heck, what will the current (or even future changes) environment have long-term on health care employment and people going into that field? Again, it hurts your brain just thinking of the potentials one way or another. That's what alcohol is for i guess lol.

But if you did let things go somewhat non-vaccination/mask wise, you would likely end up seeing (for better or worse) a MUCH better presence of CV treatment and testing. IMHO, there's been a bizarre and curiously egregious lack of effort put in this aspect of things. It's like all the eggs went to the Vaccine and ignored treatment/testing. There is no reason we should be at a point where the only good test is a horrible nose swab that takes a medical person to do and results 24-72 hours later. That makes no sense. The lack of a treatment is also a shame -- resulting in the crazy/wacky, unproven treatments that have been pushed over the course of the past 15 months.

 

[All The Kings Men]

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

IMHO, there's been a bizarre and curiously egregious lack of effort put in this aspect of things. It's like all the eggs went to the Vaccine and ignored treatment/testing. There is no reason we should be at a point where the only good test is a horrible nose swab that takes a medical person to do and results 24-72 hours later. That makes no sense. The lack of a treatment is also a shame -- resulting in the crazy/wacky, unproven treatments that have been pushed over the course of the past 15 months.

(PREFACE: I received the vaccine my first month of eligibility earlier this year - and recently talked my anti-vax-leaning best friend into getting his shot a few weeks ago-- so I'm the furthest thing from an anti-vaxxer. "Ask my kids if you doubt me.") I'm totally with you on this. The technical definition of "endemic" aside, I'm not sure we'll see a return to normalcy until (a) bankable treatment(s) for COVID become widespread and easily accessible. IMHO the fear of contracting (and, more pertinently, becoming severely ill from) this is just too ingrained in even fully-vaccinated folks nowadays, and the only thing that's gonna' alter that fear is if folks believe there's a healing powder/pill/suppository (do they still even make these??)/whatever for this.

On the bright side, it looks like India might provide a "proving ground" for prospective treatments:

2- Deoxy-D-Glucose: Granules India gets licence from DRDO to manufacture and market COVID-19 drug 2-DG, Health News, ET HealthWorld (indiatimes.com)

MGC Pharmaceuticals (ASX:MXC) to import proposed COVID-19 treatment in India - The Market Herald

 

[Matt13]

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts



1.5 years in and we're still having this conversation...

Maybe I listen to Rogan too much but I am curious of peoples opinions or knowledge of the following:

From the article, “One in 500 people in the U.S. has died from COVID. To try to trivialize it and say it’s nothing, it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just a gross mischaracterization of what we are all living through,”

Is it more accurate to say "One in 500 people in the US has died with Covid" as it may not be the full reason a person has passed?

 

[Kudelski37]

Well to be fair, if you looking at the costs involved to compare, you would need to factor in the cost of the other side -- Govt stimulus money, lost businesses, lost jobs, less investment, lost tax revenues, additional government business/individual aid, bad/insufficient/lost kid & young adult education, etc. It's almost mind numbing thinking of the ripple effects long-term (each side quite honestly).

I'm not disagreeing with your point -- just that there's more to it than the initial death or health care. Heck, what will the current (or even future changes) environment have long-term on health care employment and people going into that field? Again, it hurts your brain just thinking of the potentials one way or another. That's what alcohol is for i guess lol.

But if you did let things go somewhat non-vaccination/mask wise, you would likely end up seeing (for better or worse) a MUCH better presence of CV treatment and testing. IMHO, there's been a bizarre and curiously egregious lack of effort put in this aspect of things. It's like all the eggs went to the Vaccine and ignored treatment/testing. There is no reason we should be at a point where the only good test is a horrible nose swab that takes a medical person to do and results 24-72 hours later. That makes no sense. The lack of a treatment is also a shame -- resulting in the crazy/wacky, unproven treatments that have been pushed over the course of the past 15 months.

Preventive care is cheaper than treating a disease/illness. Covid isn't an exception. Virus are difficult to treat, but there is an expensive antiviral treatment that is not as successful as a vaccine for covid. I know Trump took it when diagnosed last year, but I don't know how available it is. I think other options are being worked on.

Testing is worthless with covid since people can infect others long before having symptoms. You have to test everyone all the time. There isn't a cheap or easy way to do that. Plus, if someone won't get a vaccine why would they take a daily test?

Vaccines are the quicker and cheaper measure.