General COVID-19 Talk #2, NHL Phase 2 begins early June Mod Warning post 1

[Raccoon Jesus]

No I’m saying if you can’t do a job right don’t do it at all and don’t waste money. Shut it down and resume when things are “safe”. Why do the rest of us either go to work and do the job the way it needs to be done Construction, nurses, cops, Hair stylists, fast food workers, etc. . Go collect unemployment like everyone else. Why would we pay you guys to do something that doesn’t work. Over 80 percent of parents in our school district thought distance learning was a terrible idea. Our kids didn’t learn for shit, it puts a burden on parents to stay home and partner in education unpaid.

Because construction is done on sites that have huge safety standards already and is often outdoors. Nurses are literally trained to deal with medicine. Cops are frontline responders with similar training. Hair stylists, fast food workers and others are dealing with one-to-one interpersonal interactions. Teachers are high-risk, indoors, with 40-ish people per class in germ filled environments with a bunch of youngsters who may not comply.

You're saying don't do it at all--okay, kids are still at home, your problems are still there. And if you're saying just pay for private tutors/private education, you're just highlighting and exacerbating the disparity in resources most students in LAUSD experience and making the gap even greater.

Distance education sucks and that's why they're trying to explore better ways for everyone while being safe but it's a healthy compromise between doing nothing and doing everything AND allows students to pick up where they left off and go back to school if, say, halfway through the school year, we're good to go.

I mean, really, all we're saying is "don't open schools up in full at the height of a pandemic" and somehow that's a controversial issue.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I think this is a big problem in our education system - parents need "daycare" and worry less about content or quality of education.[/QUOTE

I don’t need daycare. 5 year olds need to get out of the house and go be around other kids. If I wanted to be a teacher I would have pursued that occupation.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I would 100% agree with you that the socialization function missing is arguably the worst part of this whole thing. But your (and others') suggestions of having kids in small groups, whether it's family or neighborhood or whatever, might be the best solution to that temporarily too. Like everything else it's less than ideal but it's how we keep going.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Because construction is done on sites that have huge safety standards already and is often outdoors. Nurses are literally trained to deal with medicine. Cops are frontline responders with similar training. Hair stylists, fast food workers and others are dealing with one-to-one interpersonal interactions. Teachers are high-risk, indoors, with 40-ish people per class in germ filled environments with a bunch of youngsters who may not comply.

You're saying don't do it at all--okay, kids are still at home, your problems are still there. And if you're saying just pay for private tutors/private education, you're just highlighting and exacerbating the disparity in resources most students in LAUSD experience and making the gap even greater.

Distance education sucks and that's why they're trying to explore better ways for everyone while being safe but it's a healthy compromise between doing nothing and doing everything AND allows students to pick up where they left off and go back to school if, say, halfway through the school year, we're good to go.

I mean, really, all we're saying is "don't open schools up in full at the height of a pandemic" and somehow that's a controversial issue.

So why do me or my wife have to quit our job (a 5 year old can’t distance learn in the house unattended I would be thrown in jail) because now my kid has to be homeschooled via a teacher at their home getting paid.


So you keep your job and your home and livelihood but I have to give up mine to make yours work.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I would 100% agree with you that the socialization function missing is arguably the worst part of this whole thing. But your (and others') suggestions of having kids in small groups, whether it's family or neighborhood or whatever, might be the best solution to that temporarily too. Like everything else it's less than ideal but it's how we keep going.

Greater 80% of us wanT our kids to go back to school. Shouldn’t we just find teachers that want to be there. I bet a lot of people would rather risk getting sick than losing their home and livelihood.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

ack to school. Shouldn’t we just find teachers that want to be there. I bet a lot of people would rather risk getting sick than losing their home and livelihood.

That’s the choice the rest of us have. Why are you guys so special?

 

[Fishhead]

So why do me or my wife have to quit our job (a 5 year old can’t distance learn in the house unattended I would be thrown in jail) because now my kid has to be homeschooled via a teacher at their home getting paid.


So you keep your job and your home and livelihood but I have to give up mine to make yours work.

You probably could just go the day-care route, 5 year old kids don't even have to enroll and most of those are open. I have one in 2nd grade and yeah, his distance learning was atrocious. We also have a younger one and we were just going to send her to pre-school so my wife could go back to work, but we said F it and she's just going to take a year off. Even the schools that are open 5 days are going to be splitting kids into half days, so while it's cutting into some savings we had earmarked for other things it's probably easier.

COVID is exposing so many shortcomings in our systems. I shudder to think if something worse actually happened, like a major quake or disaster that shut things down for several years.

 

[Fishhead]

Greater 80% of us wanT our kids to go back to school. Shouldn’t we just find teachers that want to be there. I bet a lot of people would rather risk getting sick than losing their home and livelihood.

You could try, but there's a shortage of teachers already. Trying to manage 200+ kids every day - usually without an inkling of parental support - for that pay scale isn't exactly palatable to most people. Throw in an environment with a higher risk of COVID and there won't be people lining up.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

So you think they would lose their homes over it? If you don’t work you don’t get paid if you don’t get paid you dont pay your mortgage or rent. You don’t pay your mortgage or rent you are homeless.

 

[HeadInjury]

Latest data from my doctor friend. OC admissions up 5% and San Bernardino admissions down 3% in past 24 hours.

There appears to be an uptick in deaths in last 24 hours. Not specific to one location though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

ack to school. Shouldn’t we just find teachers that want to be there. I bet a lot of people would rather risk getting sick than losing their home and livelihood.

That’s the choice the rest of us have. Why are you guys so special?

No one is saying teachers are more special than anyone else. In fact you'll notice that any argument I put forth was based on essentially the same standards as any other industry going back to work.

In your words--go get a different job if you don't like it.

 

[Lt Dan]

wtf happened here?

 

[Fishhead]

So you think they would lose their homes over it? If you don’t work you don’t get paid if you don’t get paid you dont pay your mortgage or rent. You don’t pay your mortgage or rent you are homeless.

To be fair, that's more of a lack of saving/preparation thing than a COVID thing. If someone is buying a house, they should have 6 months of payments sacked away minimum, to not have that is crazy. Same thing with rent. If you can't do that you are buying too much house or living in an area that's too expensive for you.

There is so much that can happen disaster wise to someone. It could be a natural disaster - earthquake, flood, or fire. It could be something like cancer or emergency surgery that costs and arm and a leg, even with insurance. An older parent may unexpectedly have to go into a care facility. I've seen it happen to a close friend, unfortunately. It's the American way to bite off more that we can chew financially.

Bottom line is if someone is losing their house right now because of this, especially with mortgage companies working with people and with executive orders restricting evictions, that's a result of poor choices not COVID.

 

[HeadInjury]

If you look at the daily reported death totals for the U.S., Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays consistently have lower death totals reported. Yesterday's reported death total was 465. Expect it to be considerably higher today.

 

[Bandit]

wtf happened here?

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Greater 80% of us wanT our kids to go back to school. Shouldn’t we just find teachers that want to be there. I bet a lot of people would rather risk getting sick than losing their home and livelihood.

I'm going to disagree there. I work in health care and most of us aren't going to send our kids back to school and most of the parents I know outside of health care are not at all interested in sending kids back so I'm not sure where your 80% comes from unless it's your particular neighborhood. I was a middle school teacher prior and teachers are significantly understaffed, underpaid with the raises going to administration, we were actually importing teachers from the Philippines in my district because we couldn't find people who wanted to teach in our district. It may be anecdotal and I've been out of the classroom for over 10 years and in the hospitals now, but it goes beyond just finding people that want to be there and just throwing money at it. Because there are some negative long term effects.

Being a parent means being a teacher, it's not the school's job to raise our kids. As parents, we teach kids throughout our entire lives. It's on us to pick up that slack but this is how we're going to create kids who can compete in this world. I hate what this is doing to our economy and their lives but this is a virus. Examples of long term effects of Virus: HIV continues to wreak havoc on the entire body system for years to include kidneys, brain, suppressing the immune system. Chicken pox, a virus, can appear as shingles 20 t0 30 years later. Shingles are airborne, Hepatitis C will destroy the liver, clotting abilities, creation of blood cells causing anemia, confusion etc etc. Zika causes birth defects in children later, Polio can resurface 15 years later and cause debilitating neurological effects. For Hep C, treatments is Harvony, for Polio, we have a vaccine, for Zika, no known cure, Chicken pox we have a vaccine.

You see, there are long term effects to these viruses which is why we have a vaccine for it and Covid is not just limited to a simple pneumonia, it's going to stay with those who are infected keep it as long as they live and we only have had a chance to study this for 6 months, who knows what else we are going to find beyond heart failure, clots leading to pulmonary embolisms, strokes and heart attacks, kidney disease leading to impaired renal function which shortens lives later. The brain inflammation is relatively new to me and today we just had a first born case of it passing through the fetus which means it passes onto the next generation.

Along with the disability status that is going to be passed on to the state and taxpayers to take care for those who draw that lottery ticket, throwing teachers to the front line saying they don't want to be there is just recklessly endangering another person and potentially any children they have because parents don't feel obligated to teach their kids. It also creates a long term economic influx of disability cases which we aren't even tallying at this time. It's only admissions and deaths. We're not even drawing stats on disability cases because they are just starting to apply and wrap things up at work.

The economy sucks right now but I can't really fathom seeing this thing explode any further because we're so busy helping out other counties due to overfilling from other hospitals. We still don't know the transmission rate among children to adults and ICUs are filling up. We know some kids have high viral loads and high loads are equal to severity in illness but we're not sure of the transmission rate at this time so starting up the schools, is irresponsible at this time. We could make this thing a whole lot worse because of transmission to adults. To be honest, as an ICU nurse, this is our way of life until a vaccine gets generated because we clearly can't trust people to self contain. Look what happened in FL TX, AZ and CA. Not about to trust people around me to take care of my kid when so many flaunt the fact that it's a hoax.

And just something else to ponder, how many parents are likely to send a kid to school sick? I'd argue many.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm going to disagree there. I work in health care and most of us aren't going to send our kids back to school and most of the parents I know outside of health care are not at all interested in sending kids back so I'm not sure where your 80% comes from unless it's your particular neighborhood. I was a middle school teacher prior and teachers are significantly understaffed, underpaid with the raises going to administration, we were actually importing teachers from the Philippines in my district because we couldn't find people who wanted to teach in our district. It may be anecdotal and I've been out of the classroom for over 10 years and in the hospitals now, but it goes beyond just finding people that want to be there and just throwing money at it. Because there are some negative long term effects.

Being a parent means being a teacher, it's not the school's job to raise our kids. As parents, we teach kids throughout our entire lives. It's on us to pick up that slack but this is how we're going to create kids who can compete in this world. I hate what this is doing to our economy and their lives but this is a virus. Examples of long term effects of Virus: HIV continues to wreak havoc on the entire body system for years to include kidneys, brain, suppressing the immune system. Chicken pox, a virus, can appear as shingles 20 t0 30 years later. Shingles are airborne, Hepatitis C will destroy the liver, clotting abilities, creation of blood cells causing anemia, confusion etc etc. Zika causes birth defects in children later, Polio can resurface 15 years later and cause debilitating neurological effects. For Hep C, treatments is Harvony, for Polio, we have a vaccine, for Zika, no known cure, Chicken pox we have a vaccine.

You see, there are long term effects to these viruses which is why we have a vaccine for it and Covid is not just limited to a simple pneumonia, it's going to stay with those who are infected keep it as long as they live and we only have had a chance to study this for 6 months, who knows what else we are going to find beyond heart failure, clots leading to pulmonary embolisms, strokes and heart attacks, kidney disease leading to impaired renal function which shortens lives later. The brain inflammation is relatively new to me and today we just had a first born case of it passing through the fetus which means it passes onto the next generation.

Along with the disability status that is going to be passed on to the state and taxpayers to take care for those who draw that lottery ticket, throwing teachers to the front line saying they don't want to be there is just recklessly endangering another person and potentially any children they have because parents don't feel obligated to teach their kids. It also creates a long term economic influx of disability cases which we aren't even tallying at this time. It's only admissions and deaths. We're not even drawing stats on disability cases because they are just starting to apply and wrap things up at work.

The economy sucks right now but I can't really fathom seeing this thing explode any further because we're so busy helping out other counties due to overfilling from other hospitals. We still don't know the transmission rate among children to adults and ICUs are filling up. We know some kids have high viral loads and high loads are equal to severity in illness but we're not sure of the transmission rate at this time so starting up the schools, is irresponsible at this time. We could make this thing a whole lot worse because of transmission to adults. To be honest, as an ICU nurse, this is our way of life until a vaccine gets generated because we clearly can't trust people to self contain. Look what happened in FL TX, AZ and CA. Not about to trust people around me to take care of my kid when so many flaunt the fact that it's a hoax.

And just something else to ponder, how many parents are likely to send a kid to school sick? I'd argue many.

To borrow a buzz phrase going around lately, our entire educational system in this country needs to be re-imagined. Either that, or maybe we could just go back to what used to work very well.

I think the studies done in Germany give some good insights into the rate of infection and transmission from young children to adults.

Schools have low coronavirus infection rate, German study finds

Speaking at a news conference Monday, Berner reportedly stated that “children may even act as a brake on infection,” according to Reuters, saying infections in schools had not led to an outbreak and that the spread of the virus within households was also less dynamic than previously expected.

“More than 20 of the examined subjects had at least one proven corona case in the family; however, antibodies were found in only one of these study participants, which would mean that the majority of schoolchildren did not go through an infection themselves despite an infection in the household. This finding must also be taken into account when it comes to deciding on measures to limit contact.”

 

[Schrute farms]

Actually, that 80% figure is taken out of context....way out. First off, the survey (which i received and responded too) was in early June before things went to crap the past few weeks. So things were looking rosy at that time.

Second: 20% said "no way" to returning back to school. 21% said there were uncertain either way. 59% said return, but with half of that group saying it must be under restrictions (i.e., less students / rotation, etc.). So to say 80% want to return is a total misleading statement as to the facts of the results. I could just as easily (& erroneously) say less than 30% want to return back to school.

FYI: We voted for returning in a limited/controlled function. But if you took the same survey again now in July, we'd vote definitely no.

 

[Maynard]

wtf happened here?

Aggressive science denial.

 

[BigKing]

Aggressive science denial.

 

[King'sPawn]

I keep debating if I should keep looking at this thread if there are any interesting updates or ignore it because of some of the ghoulish remarks being thrown around.

 

[Lt Dan]

I keep debating if I should keep looking at this thread if there are any interesting updates or ignore it because of some of the ghoulish remarks being thrown around.

Seriously

f*** off with the politics


Today's numbers

Tues: 5
Mon: 1
Sun: 2
Sat : 3
Fri: 6
Thu:17
Wed:4

avg still sky high at 5.42


ICU cases go up 2, from 235
Hospitalizations jumped from 674 to 712


The good news? Second day in a row with a case count under 1000
Positive tests today were 8.4%

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

So none of you answered a simple question. If the choice was go to work like you did in 2019 or lose your house what would you pick? That is the choice most of us have to make. Online learning is not effective and in the real world if you do your job in-effectively you are fired. If I try and install an AC unit at 50% effectiveness in your home and try to charge you full price you would tell me to piss off.

I am a certified financial planner btw so the arguments based on forbearance option are misguided. You still have to come up with a balloon payment and banks are starting to resume the foreclosure process as we speak. That forbearance process was only 6 months long.


what about the LA unified teachers union requests for going back to school of:

-federal bailout
-close all charter schools
-Police defunded
-medi-Cal for all
-wealth tax

do you really wonder why a lot of people have no sympathy for the situation when these teachers unions are using our children’s education and development as political leverage!

 

[fivehole32]

So none of you answered a simple question. If the choice was go to work like you did in 2019 or lose your house what would you pick? That is the choice most of us have to make. Online learning is not effective and in the real world if you do your job in-effectively you are fired. If I try and install an AC unit at 50% effectiveness in your home and try to charge you full price you would tell me to piss off.

I am a certified financial planner btw so the arguments based on forbearance option are misguided. You still have to come up with a balloon payment and banks are starting to resume the foreclosure process as we speak. That forbearance process was only 6 months long.


what about the LA unified teachers union requests for going back to school of:

-federal bailout
-close all charter schools
-Police defunded
-medi-Cal for all
-wealth tax

do you really wonder why a lot of people have no sympathy for the situation when these teachers unions are using our children’s education and development as political leverage!

Unfortunately same as it ever was. I went to Cal State San Berdo and my English class was told we would receive an A for the quarter if I showed up for a pay increase protest for the teachers. this was back in 2001.

 

[Lt Dan]

So none of you answered a simple question

I'll ask a better question

Why don't you go talk politics in the places designed for political talk? There are a million places to talk politics if you want

This is a Covid Thread
don't get it closed because you choose to now